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Energy infrastructure

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I get that - and with any system you'd need to pay for spinning reserve for at least the biggest single point of failure on the system ,

    One of the giant north sea wind farms ( over a GW) went offline in Britain about 2 years ago , when lightning hit it's Grid connection on land (Wouldn't have been a problem but one of their big thermal stations went down at the same time - causing blackouts in the south east ..

    But for wind ( at the moment) you need to also have a "parallel " generating capacity , for when the wind isn't blowing - ( it doesn't need to be spinning all the time , it just needs to be able to be brought on as the wind predictably dips ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,699 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    The windfarm were 4 days away from updating the software that would have handed the effect of the lightning. The lightning affected the power station and other generators too. And the National Grid only had 1GW of frequency reserve.

    More details in the report. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/855767/e3c-gb-power-disruption-9-august-2019-final-report.pdf



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Australia has lots of sunshine, and lots of wind.

    However, they have lots of coal, and make lots of money from it. So the sun can shine and the wind can blow - but Australia will continue to dig out the coal and burn it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    That’s because Australian politicians are in the pocket of big coal.

    they could be building EVs also for south Asian market cause they have lots of minerals, Holden the oz car company went bust so the facilities are there it’s just a once bought stay bought mentality! You’ll find the majority of Australians want shot of fossils.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Why would small , outdated ,highly subsidized car assembly and engine plants make any sense to an ev company ,?

    I get that some of the engineering skills could transfer across - but gm pulled out of aus altogether - ford just wanted out - and Toyota similar .. if ford or gm had seen an ev prospect they'd have had little difficulty in persuading the Aussie government to splash a good few billion to keep the plants open . . . .

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Aren't they moving away from coal fueled electricity generation ?

    I think their plan is more gas ( they have loads ) and more renewables ,

    And to open as many new coal mines as quick as possible to sell it to the Indians and Chinese ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think the Australians are not gone on the Chinese that much since they put sanctions on their wine or should that be whine?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    In the imaginary dystopian world where there are glob spanning interconnectors

    There is already an extensive network of interconnectors all over the world with billions more planned spending over the next 2 decades to widen the network further, particularly in Europe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 733 ✭✭✭Heraclius


    Not one that runs on uranium fission though and also not one we have successfully been able to build on earth (yet) so I'm not sure what your point is.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭gjim


    Electricity can be transported literally at the speed of light, can be converted directly and efficiently into any other sort of energy without creating waste, can be generated cleanly and cheaply and is directly accessible to 87% of the the planet.

    Bring on this "dystopia" where 95% of humankind's energy needs are met by renewable locally-generated electricity instead of a planet being cooked by a huge filthy heavy industry that props up some of the most despotic and corrupt autocrats.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Can we get back to discussing Infrastructure: Energy Infrastructure. - as per the thread title.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,678 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    In Ireland - unobstructed direct sunlight happens for only 15% of the hours in a year. This is why you hear so much noise from prospective solar power provider grifters urging the government to give them guaranteed subsidies so they can build these stupid things and then go live in the Caymen Islands and enjoy their early retirement while the tax payer keeps their pockets and glasses full.

    Interesting article recently noting that the majority of UK wind farms are owned by interests headquartered in the Caymen Islands and other tax havens. Mammy, mammy, why is our power bill so high?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,678 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    A bit more tragic was the arsewholes causing tons of live crayfish to slowly die on the docks. I'm an Australian, and it isn't my perception that Australia has lots of wind. Certainly not compared to Ireland. A lot of the wind it does have is generated by the continental mass and is adiabatic, so is a lot more intermittent than here.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Mammy, mammy, why is our power bill so high?

    Gas prices



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 19,678 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    And gas prices are high because renewables are not living up to the promise and they are needing to use vast quantities of it to meet the shortfall all across Europe.

    Remember, 100% renewables by 2050....

    The Germans shut down their nuclear reactors because a single person died as a result of Fukashima and are trying to shut down on coal, but they can't use wind to replace those as it's not blowing enough and solar at these lattitudes and climate are a sick joke, leaving gas.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As has been explained multiple times in this thread, the gas price spike is not as simple as that.

    The lower output of renewables is a factor, certainly, but there are several other factors at play too.

    Basically, it's no one issue, it's several issues



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,428 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I'd agree that Germany shutting it's nuclear industry so quickly was a bit surprising - especially when most of the cost ( and carbon in the concrete) had already been spent ,

    but current gas prices are likely to turn out to be a blip- and to blame current high gas prices on the renewable infrastructure is a bit weird ...

    There is a very significant cost to co2 reduction ... But the alternative isn't to burn more coal and gas -

    And it seems it's going to be too expensive at the moment to go nuclear - as well as being at least 15 years of develoment for a first station even if the contract was signed in the morning ... feic it even natural gas power stations take 4 or 5 years to plan , build and commission.. and that's using pretty much off the shelf engineering..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You keep saying that. Direct Sunlight isn’t available anywhere for 50% of the year even in the sunniest place on Earth. In fact let me look that up for you …. Yuma, Arizona has 4,015 hours so a mere 45% of the hours in the year are sunlight. Poor old Madrid has only 2,769 hours of direct sunlight, so the poor blighters have only 31% of the year with direct sunlight. it’s surprising anybody is building solar panels

    This is because of night time. 🥸



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭gjim


    Yeah, nobody gives a fiddlers about how sunny it is Ireland. The only thing that matters is price - cost per kWh. In the 2020 RESS auctions, the solar PV bids averaged about 70 euro/mWh - actually (slightly) less than the average price for on-shore wind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,112 ✭✭✭gjim


    What's your point? That we should be building a gas pipe instead? That'd be far more popular 🙄



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Firstly, the grid is already built here, so not sure what you are talking about there. It is always undergoing expansion and development and will always be doing that.

    Planning permission has been already been granted for the north south interconnector. Its been delayed by appeals which is normal for virtually anything in this country at this stage.

    Whether those appeals fail or succeed is immaterial, the interconnector will be getting built, just might take a bit longer and perhaps take a different route if required but it will be built.

    It won't be the last one either, as Europe expands connectivity to ensure stability of energy networks. You seem to be arguing against this, why I don't know

    Are you against interconnectors or something? To your point, to get energy from a solar source while its night here would involve an interconnector to the US and/or Asia. Is there something, somewhere, that makes you believe this is what is being planned and this is what you have a problem with because there are no plans (that I'm aware of) to do anything like that?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 81,154 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Eirgrid coming out brutal in all this. Whoy do they have corporate boxes in Croke Park and whoy do they advertise on RTE? It's not like I can decide to run my power across Zaire Power Limited should I wish, the entire Irish residential market is only allowed run off Eirgrid. Will any journalist cover this and ask whoy the levy on every single residential bill pays in to this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,637 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Only a matter of time now before the Tu-95s are above Foynes.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I do not understand why they would have corporate boxes - there is no need for them, and who gets to use them?

    However, advertising while you are a monopoly does have a purpose.

    The HSE gets woeful press because someone's granny gets bad service, or a kid gets poor service over some matter. It is always a someone, and not systemic. Now whether the HSE is fully responsible or not, they still get bad press. However, since the Covid, they are not getting such bad press, because they are doing quite well in the reaction to Covid - particularly with the vaccination and testing.

    Now Eirgrid are facing network supply shortages that are getting tight, so a bit of feel good advertising might get them more room to ask for the public to take measures to mitigate supply problems. If the public feel good about Eirgrid, they might well do as asked. It works for water shortages.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,594 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    As solar gets better in the future i wonder could we see europe doing a deal with north african countrys to build giant solar farms in there deserts with the power generatered supplying europe via an interconector through southern spain?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Bsharp


    Spain and Morocco already have two interconnectors with a third on the way.

    I wouldn't want to see Europe build or own them per se, rather North African countries themselves and they can use the energy/revenue as they see fit. The former tends to lead to more conflict.



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