MINIMUM DEERHUNTING CALIBER

kakashka · 18-12-2009 1:03am

bunny shooter wrote: »

Patron saint of hunters :rolleyes:

As long as I'm shooting I still learn from others and some of those aren't shooting as long as me. Nobody knows it all and we can all learn from the experiences good & bad of others no matter how much they do/don't know in our opinions

And just because someone tells me they are great doesn't mean they are :P

This calibre thing is irrelevant repeatable accuracy and knowing ones limits and working within them is the secret to any kind of shooting/hunting IMHO

Absolutely agree

kakashka · 18-12-2009 1:15am

jwshooter wrote: »

im using a 270/243 at the moment the two men i mostly cull with mostly use 25,06/243.

over the years the 243 has caused most of the problems also the 243s are not used for stags .

when im culling i dont put any less effort into shooting the 270 over the 243.

the nobel notion of stalking into spitting distance of your quarry is grand but it does not happen every day .

i would have great respect for hubert as does all of england and his irish friends.
he has mostly likely forgotton more about stalking that the rest of us will hope tp learn.
as for people only shooting a few years . we have a saying .

(im shooting a week but if you want to know any thing just ask me.)

The problem is not with the 243 or any cal but the man pulling when he should not,
i'm not going to start the i've shot bla bla for bla years etc etc,i'l leave that to yourself and Hubert
I have no prejudice against anyone who's taken up shootin relatively recently,i know some fine young hunters and also some brutal veterins
And i heard a saying here some time ago JWya,"he who knows all knows fawlk all"

ivanthehunter · 18-12-2009 1:24am

What sort of damage do these different calibers cause?

How much wastage is on each carcass? and what is hide damage like?

Surely these above points/questions might are also be valid considerations!

Might it also be considered that shooting conditions around the country vary considerably, from open moors to fields to forestry, etc etc and therefore this should also be considered.

jwshooter · 18-12-2009 8:08am

the min cal for stalking should be moved up to 6mm with at least 70gr bullet.
with energy levels to suit
the wast majority of stalkers a are a lot less capable than they think they are ,thats a fact.

i agree there is some dangerously bad hunters about , but young and old .

i have coached novice shooters over the years some listen some dont

but there is not a gun shop in the world that can sell experience and knowledge

dwighet · 18-12-2009 9:38am

jwshooter wrote: »

the min cal for stalking should be moved up to 6mm with at least 70gr bullet.
with energy levels to suit
the wast majority of stalkers a are a lot less capable than they think they are ,thats a fact.

i agree there is some dangerously bad hunters about , but young and old .

i have coached novice shooters over the years some listen some dont

but there is not a gun shop in the world that can sell experience and knowledge

never a truer word said J.W
Im 100% wit ya on that..

ivanthehunter · 18-12-2009 11:15am

Read the bit on ammo types here!
http://www.shakariconnection.com/african-hunt-recommendations.html

clivej · 18-12-2009 12:00pm

I'm still reading/following this thread with great interest and liking most of what I read. JW and Hubert are making the most sense as far as i can see and are taking about WHAT they know from experance and not pub talk as a lot more contributers to this thread are adding.

From my point of view I have started stalking this season after going out with a good friend last year. It has taken me most of last year to get set up with the rifle, scope, proper clothing, and all the rest. People that read my posts know what I use for stalking.

I have a good MENTOR to keep me in check from running away with myself, I spend range time to get used to my gun, I listen and learn, I don't take the shot if I'm in any way doultful.

If anyone is getting into stalking then their first stop is to read a lot on the subject second stop is with a dealer who will put them right as to What Calibre, and has to start with 243 and go up from there. Not will my 22lr do the job, they already know the answers to calibre choice after that its just trolling.

Clive J from KK with his 2 cents worth.

OldEyes · 18-12-2009 12:45pm

When a man puts a round outside of the vitals zone of a deer and sits there watching the animal run off to find a place for a slow and painful death, his first thought should not be, “Boy do I need a larger caliber rifle”. Instead it should be, “Boy do I need to work on my marksmanship skills”.
I see it all the time in target shooting. A man gets up from a lousy string and the first thing to get questioned is the rifle or the rounds. The last thing to come under the microscope is always his own ability to drive the rifle or read the wind.

I can never understand why it is that target shooters are consider those most concerned with accuracy and marksmanship when you consider what’s at stake between the two sports. If I pull a round or misread the wind when I shoot at a paper target I lose a point and the only thing hurt is my pride. If I pull a shot or misread the wind when I shoot at a deer I lose the deer and cause the animal to suffer a slow, painful and ultimately pointless death because the meat usually goes unrecovered.

Too much time is spent worrying about rifle calibers and shooting gear and not enough on marksmanship and wind reading skills.
If a stalker has a licence to shoot deer, then he has in his hands a rifle capable of killing a deer, his only concern should be how to land that fatal shot and bring home the meat.

OldEyes.

bunny shooter · 18-12-2009 1:31pm

clivej wrote: »

.........second stop is with a dealer who will put them right as to What Calibre......

Would advise caution on that piece of advice as dealers tend to want to sell certain rifles for various reasons and they may be biased towards something that they wish to "shift" rather than what's appropiate for the customer.

Advice from proven experienced stalkers, personal taste/s and what your Super is willing to licence would be more important considerations.

As JW said the limit should be raised at this stage to at least .243 with 100 grain bullets.

A stalking friend of mine who previously hunted Sika used a .270. Now he is shooting Fallow and is using a 6.5x55. He has 20+ years experience. He has never had any trouble killing deer with either calibre.

To dismiss people as trolls because you think they know nothng of shooting deer is somewhat patronising to us trolls BTW

Just because I haven't posted pictures and stories here doesn't mean I haven't done it

I have to call your bunny shooting abilities into question and I am qualified to talk about that too :P And before you say it I know you beat me in the fox shoots

I always find the range and the field are two totally different things

Tackleberry. · 18-12-2009 1:53pm

BUNNY QUOTE "To dismiss people as trolls because you think they know nothng of shooting deer is somewhat patronising to us trolls BTW

Just because I haven't posted pictures and stories here doesn't mean I haven't done it

"

+1
as the saying goes.."its the quite one you need to watch"

also +1 on min cal 243 with 100grain, i moved only this year from the 243 up to 308 because of three being an increase in red about, but it now looks to powerful for shooting fallow inside 100 yards as i'm getting a large exit wound, 243 was bang on at 100yrds for fallow. You never stop learning.

HUBERTUS · 18-12-2009 2:15pm

I think your problem with the excess damage to your Fallow may be with the projectile in the bullet and not the calibre.
If you try a change of ammo. using a different `head`you may get a different result.
I have a .308 Sako which I use on Deer sometimes with 150gr Speer home-loaded bullets and even on the small Muntjac damage is acceptable.

HWH.

kakashka · 18-12-2009 2:21pm

Over 30 Years shooting Deer,just for the record;)(and i will never question someone i dont know);)

kakashka · 18-12-2009 2:23pm

HUBERTUS wrote: »

I think your problem with the excess damage to your Fallow may be with the projectile in the bullet and not the calibre.
If you try a change of ammo. using a different `head`you may get a different result.

HWH.

Yes was about to say same

bunny shooter · 18-12-2009 3:35pm

HUBERTUS wrote: »

................I have a .308 Sako which I use on Deer sometimes with 150gr Speer home-loaded bullets and even on the small Muntjac damage is acceptable.

.308 on Muntjac .................. be like using my .220 Swift on Rabbits ?

But then again you can never have enough gun :rolleyes:

A .22 Hornet is acceptable on bunnies BUT it is too much at the same time :P

.........................I'll get my coat

kakashka · 18-12-2009 4:04pm

bunny shooter wrote: »

.308 on Muntjac .................. be like using my .220 Swift on Rabbits ?

But then again you can never have enough gun :rolleyes:

A .22 Hornet is acceptable on bunnies BUT it is too much at the same time :P

.........................I'll get my coat

Thank you!!!
BTW i think hornets a great round,only gun i wish i'd never sold was a BRNO Fox,i was soo comfortable and confident with it

It wasn't me! · 18-12-2009 4:24pm

bunny shooter wrote: »

.308 on Muntjac .................. be like using my .220 Swift on Rabbits ?

But then again you can never have enough gun :rolleyes:

A .22 Hornet is acceptable on bunnies BUT it is too much at the same time :P

.........................I'll get my coat

From talking to lads in the UK, they like the .308 for the smaller deer because it's heavier and slower, and doesn't ruin meat the way a faster, lighter calibre does. Have to say, from a strictly theoretical perspective, it makes sense, and if if bears up in reality, it makes sense there too. I would say however, that given how much extra energy it brings to the table in the first place, if you're breaking shoulders with it, you're probably going to get a lot of bloodied meat.

HUBERTUS · 18-12-2009 6:12pm

I often shoot Bunnies up to 250yds with the .243 using the 75gr V.Max. re-loaded bullet .
This bullet is not suitable for Deer though due to its frangible construction .
The Muntjac is a very hardy little bugger , in some respects similar to the hardy Wicklow Sika and often when shot it lifts its tail , farts in your face and scampers off to die in a nasty prickly thicket .
I found though that a shoulder shot with the 150gr Speer from the .308 or .30-06 nailed them on the spot .

HWH.

jwshooter · 18-12-2009 7:15pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

From talking to lads in the UK, they like the .308 for the smaller deer because it's heavier and slower, and doesn't ruin meat the way a faster, lighter calibre does. Have to say, from a strictly theoretical perspective, it makes sense, and if if bears up in reality, it makes sense there too. I would say however, that given how much extra energy it brings to the table in the first place, if you're breaking shoulders with it, you're probably going to get a lot of bloodied meat.

horses for courses hear lads.

first off 22.250/swift are capable of killing deer .

shoot a mature red/sika in the rut on the shoulder with one ,eventually you will have a problem
do the same with a 270/308 using the right bullet you will never have a one.

i would like to see the .22 centre fires phased out with no new licences for them for deer work.
i would not recommend a 243 as a first rifle for a newbe,it will get you into trouble quicker than a 308 or the like.

at the end of the day the animal is all that matters ,acidents will happen mistakes will be made.we dont set you to make them but they happen .
iv made them , as has every one reading this .
use enough gun ,over kill is better than a animal flopping out of sight.

john gormally is being the great fella harping on about a few deer injured or kill by the ward union .

the man should get into the real world .

happyjack · 18-12-2009 10:54pm

HUBERTUS wrote: »

No one has suggested that a bigger gun will make anyone shoot better.
However, a bigger gun will make a bigger hole and transfer more energy to the quarry species therefore increasing the chance that it may drop dead where it stands and not scamper off to die somewhere in thick cover and probably not be found.
I am a ten stone geriatric weakling and have shot most common calibres in over 48 years stalking , none of which gave me any hassle regarding recoil.

HWH.

Same here, I weigh about 10.5 stone, never had any trouble with recoil from either a
.270 or .308. Both these calibers are very good, two world wars prove that the .303, 7.92, 308, and 30-06 are excellent rounds that do the business, can also be used on elk, bear and wild boar, your paying the same money for the gun and the ammo, why not get the value for your money?

The .270 , 25-06, and 308 can reach out further to distant shots with confidence, plus the rifling in these guns matches the bullet weight you get over the counter, no hunting with different weights spending over 100 euro just to find out what bullet weight your gun shoots accurately with.

I really enjoyed reading your opinions.

HJ:)

happyjack · 18-12-2009 11:03pm

bunny shooter wrote: »

.308 on Muntjac .................. be like using my .220 Swift on Rabbits ?

But then again you can never have enough gun :rolleyes:

A .22 Hornet is acceptable on bunnies BUT it is too much at the same time :P

.........................I'll get my coat

Swift is a lovely round for long distance rabbits, nothing left to eat really, but very accurate at long distance.

Happy Xmas Bunny shooter,

Hj:)

HUBERTUS · 18-12-2009 11:45pm

A brace of Munties shot with a 130gr Speer bullet out of my .270 , the Doe fell dead on the spot but the Buck was a runner even though dead on his feet . He went about 50yds into the thicket .
I had this laddie mounted as his tusks , antlers and ears were perfect , unusual for an adult Muntjac as they are pugnatious little blighters and enjoy a scrap using their tusks .

HWH.

jwshooter · 19-12-2009 12:01am

lovely little animals .

bunny shooter · 19-12-2009 1:21am

happyjack wrote: »

Swift is a lovely round for long distance rabbits, nothing left to eat really, but very accurate at long distance.

Happy Xmas Bunny shooter,

Hj:)

I love my swift but eventually will go back to .204 Ruger

Happy X Mass to you & yours too

bunny shooter · 19-12-2009 1:22am

jwshooter wrote: »

lovely little animals .

+1

You going all fur huggy on us JW ?

bunny shooter · 19-12-2009 1:23am

kakashka wrote: »

Thank you!!!
BTW i think hornets a great round,only gun i wish i'd never sold was a BRNO Fox,i was soo comfortable and confident with it

Love Hornet myself, had a few, might get rid of .22lr for one yet :eek:

dwighet · 19-12-2009 10:18am

HUBERTUS wrote: »

A brace of Munties shot with a 130gr Speer bullet out of my .270 , the Doe fell dead on the spot but the Buck was a runner even though dead on his feet . He went about 50yds into the thicket .
I had this laddie mounted as his tusks , antlers and ears were perfect , unusual for an adult Muntjac as they are pugnatious little blighters and enjoy a scrap using their tusks .

HWH.

Do they cook up nice.. do they taste like deer..

HUBERTUS · 19-12-2009 11:24am

Aye , excellent eating and in great demand , similar to a Sika calf probably .

Below is a pic. of the Munty tusks , 3cm long , needle sharp points and a razor sharp inner curve .
It is a foolish and brave dog that tackles a Muntjac !

HWH.

happyjack · 19-12-2009 6:46pm

dwighet wrote: »

Do they cook up nice.. do they taste like deer..

Good shooting, I love to see hunting photos, well done and happy Xmas.

HJ:)

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MINIMUM DEERHUNTING CALIBER

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