Turbo of the week

tunney · 01-04-2015 10:47am

Aarav Glamorous Level wrote: »

Have done that session in the past and it looks easier on paper than it actually is. I use a different variation to Tunneys session listed which is more suited now for bike racing i am doing.

10mins easy, 200w
3x10mins as (20sec @ 120% 400w, 40sec @ 90% 300w)
5mins recovery between each 10min interval
warm down

Starting off you would build up the intervals from 6min, 8min up to 10min intervals, generally i would not go above it. The other variable would be increasing time at 120% from 20sec up 40sec and reducing time at 90% the opposite direction. Very difficult session and you would need to be fresh heading into it. Difficulty rating would be a 5 but you would soon work that up to an 8 or 9 as you alter the session.

Very worthwhile thread.

Or you could just read Bill Blacks article on the Hour of Power from way back when and he goes through all variations

The below is more like a soft version of Tabata intervals. A mash of HoP and Tabata. (Keep thinking of Tabata Cash)

3x10mins as (20sec @ 120% 400w, 40sec @ 90% 300w)
5mins recovery between each 10min interval

For bike racing I'd have changed the HoP to half a HoP and had it as

10x(20sec MAX, 2:40 easy) where MAX is well well above FTP. 120% a little soft for covering breaks.

sconhome · 01-04-2015 10:51am

shotgunmcos wrote: »

I could do with doing more than the single weekly turbo :rolleyes:

Are you not doing this as a warmup to a 4hr turbo session? :eek:

Went to do it the other evening to find I didn't sync the watch. Ended up binning it for an aerobic spin.

pgibbo · 01-04-2015 10:51am

Any link to the original article? Not having much luck on Google. Cheers

tunney · 01-04-2015 10:53am

Aarav Glamorous Level wrote: »

Have done that session in the past and it looks easier on paper than it actually is. I use a different variation to Tunneys session listed which is more suited now for bike racing i am doing.

10mins easy, 200w
3x10mins as (20sec @ 120% 400w, 40sec @ 90% 300w)
5mins recovery between each 10min interval
warm down

Starting off you would build up the intervals from 6min, 8min up to 10min intervals, generally i would not go above it. The other variable would be increasing time at 120% from 20sec up 40sec and reducing time at 90% the opposite direction. Very difficult session and you would need to be fresh heading into it. Difficulty rating would be a 5 but you would soon work that up to an 8 or 9 as you alter the session.

Very worthwhile thread.

The point JB is making is valid - variety is the spice of life. While you can make a convincing argument for repeating the same sessions again and again that only works for a small small section of people. Variety gets people on the turbo, enjoying the turbo and making consistent week on week gains.

If you just get on a turbo, turn on netflix and spin...... well you'd be better off just having a Tommy Tank for all the fitness benefits you are going to get.

BennyMul · 01-04-2015 10:53am

shotgunmcos wrote: »

How many have done this session or plan to? Interested to hear how others find it

I did it Sunday night and did the hour, avg 92% FTP for the hour and for the 15sec >120%, found it more mentally hard than physically.
Did read that you can do this ~3 times a week so repeated it last night.
aiming to keep a slightly higher intensity, was a lot tougher as i have a run earlier in the day, so split up the hour to doing the 30 min twice with a 5 min break in between , and riding at FTP for the last 5min of both.

tunney · 01-04-2015 10:54am

pgibbo wrote: »

Any link to the original article? Not having much luck on Google. Cheers

Will email, most of these are not available via Google for some reason. Have a nice 13gb stash of articles

pgibbo · 01-04-2015 11:06am

Cheers Dave.

BennyMul is on a mission!!! :cool:

mossym · 01-04-2015 11:10am

pgibbo wrote: »

Cheers Dave.

BennyMul is on a mission!!! :cool:

trig still owes him (and me ) a coffee. he's out to level things up

tunney · 01-04-2015 11:11am

BennyMul wrote: »

I did it Sunday night and did the hour, avg 92% FTP for the hour and for the 15sec >120%, found it more mentally hard than physically.
Did read that you can do this ~3 times a week so repeated it last night.
aiming to keep a slightly higher intensity, was a lot tougher as i have a run earlier in the day, so split up the hour to doing the 30 min twice with a 5 min break in between , and riding at FTP for the last 5min of both.

May need to take the kid clothes off and give > 7/10 sessions

BennyMul · 01-04-2015 11:26am

mossym wrote: »

trig still owes him (and me ) a coffee. he's out to level things up

Im not worried, you will be buying the coffee the next time.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi · 01-04-2015 12:13pm

tunney wrote: »

For bike racing I'd have changed the HoP to half a HoP and had it as

10x(20sec MAX, 2:40 easy) where MAX is well well above FTP. 120% a little soft for covering breaks.

Issue with the 2.40 easy is that if the pace is on in a race you will generally sit around or below threshold and not fully have a chance to recover before you are going again hence keeping the recovery at or over 90% (if you can even call that recovery):)

In reality what happens in a race is the wheel in front goes and you say to yourself, "fvk, i need to go again"....power goes out the window;)

tunney · 01-04-2015 12:15pm

Aarav Glamorous Level wrote: »

Issue with the 2.40 easy is that if the pace is on in a race you will generally sit around or below threshold and not fully have a chance to recover before you are going again hence keeping the recovery at or over 90% (if you can even call that recovery):)

In reality what happens in a race is the wheel in front goes and you say to yourself, "fvk, i need to go again"....power goes out the window;)

Sorry easy is 90% as defined in the original session, someone didn't read the session

tunney wrote: »

Week two.

10 easy or < 75%FTP
5x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
10x(2:45 mod hard or 90%FTP, 0:15 hard or 120%)
5+ easy

tunney · 02-04-2015 5:21pm

Trying to keep sessions vaguely appropriate for the time of year.

5 easy
4x(1 HC, 30sec easy)
4x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
3x(5 115%, 5 easy)
5 more minutes easy
3x(1 150% +, 5 easy)
5 easy

Time 1:13
Difficultly 8/10

In English:
Using already defined scales of easy steady etc... ... .
Spin easy for 5 minutes.
Then four reps of (1 minute over 110rpm, preferable over 120rpm, 30sec easy)
Then four reps of (30secounds building intensity in each one to start each one easy, finish fast. 30 seconds easy between)
Then 5 minutes at 115% FTP then spin easy or 60-70% for 5 minutes. Do this three times.
An extra five minutes extra after the last rep.
Then three times of 1 minute smacking it (aka hard, aka 150% +) with five minutes easy.
Spin easy for five to finish.

tunney · 02-04-2015 5:31pm

tunney wrote: »

Trying to keep sessions vaguely appropriate for the time of year.

5 easy
4x(1 HC, 30sec easy)
4x(30sec build, 30sec easy)
3x(5 115%, 5 easy)
5 more minutes easy
3x(1 150% +, 5 easy)
5 easy

Time 1:13
Difficultly 8/10

In English:
Using already defined scales of easy steady etc... ... .
Spin easy for 5 minutes.
Then four reps of (1 minute over 110rpm, preferable over 120rpm, 30sec easy)
Then four reps of (30secounds building intensity in each one to start each one easy, finish fast. 30 seconds easy between)
Then 5 minutes at 115% FTP then spin easy or 60-70% for 5 minutes. Do this three times.
An extra five minutes extra after the last rep.
Then three times of 1 minute smacking it (aka hard, aka 150% +) with five minutes easy.
Spin easy for five to finish.

To be clear. If you are racing in the next 2-3 weeks. Don't do this session. If you are racing June. Its fine. If its August your main race then its too soon.

I can stick fun sessions up that I am either doing, going to do, or giving to one of my guys but will it fit in your program? That's for you to determine.

sconhome · 08-04-2015 5:07pm

I'm saving this session for next week when the kids are back. I'm hitting the road while I can!

griffin100 · 29-03-2020 10:29pm

Somewhere in the recess of my mind I remembered that Tunney has started a turbo session thread a while ago, but would never had though it was 5 years ago

Anyway, what with the current confinement and the dusting down of turbos everywhere I thought it might be useful to resurrect this thread and those of you who know how to properly structure a turbo session could post some suggested workouts.

pgibbo · 30-03-2020 12:04pm

Thanks for resurrecting griffin100 & thanks for posting Dave. I think this will be very helpful to people.

Do you think that level of intensity is appropriate at the moment? A lot of coaches on social media commenting on how intensity stresses the immune system. In the current environment having a healthy immune system is key.

Granted, people will still do intensity but some of the guidelines are to keep to what you have been doing before the pandemic. Seiler and others advising going from 80/20 to 85/15 etc.

I know you're well read so looking to get some insights into your thinking, not being critical.

Personally I've been focusing on strength via BG work and upper aerobic efforts.

I'll dig out a couple of the articles I read after lunch.

P.

tunney · 30-03-2020 12:27pm

I deleted the set. I don't intend to personally shy away from intensity, I think there are other things that are likely to impact me.

There appears to be a vast amount of opinion on the matter of intensity and immune systems - but no consistent science, lots of contradictory papers. Plenty of stuff on coaches sites and sure everyone is an expert. Lots of DKE-19 affected people

Anyways, set deleted, not an expert so best to say nothing!

(Alot to be said for the BG and treating this as an extended winter!)

peter kern · 31-03-2020 2:53pm

tunney wrote: »

I deleted the set. I don't intend to personally shy away from intensity, I think there are other things that are likely to impact me.

There appears to be a vast amount of opinion on the matter of intensity and immune systems - but no consistent science, lots of contradictory papers. Plenty of stuff on coaches sites and sure everyone is an expert. Lots of DKE-19 affected people

Anyways, set deleted, not an expert so best to say nothing!

(Alot to be said for the BG and treating this as an extended winter!)

I guess there can be no answer fits all
the facts are until a certain level sport increases the immun system at the same time as you can see how many people come back from training camps with a cold there is a limit to what is good or when system start to get compromised .
If you are used to train 20 hours 15 hours and some intesity shoukd be save
if you are used to train 6 hours going up to 12 hours now with .loads of intensity I would not consider that a smart move .especially if one is aged let's say 45 plus
Health history is also to consider .

At the end peop,e have to make their own decisions and Joe not so blocks who has a wife that is a Dr did 350 k the other day on the bike, but I guess that shoukd safely keep hin in 85 15 lol
But the equation has to be i traing history xntenstiy x duration x health history . Not just intensity

pgibbo · 31-03-2020 7:27pm

Totally agree Peter. Thanks for that.

This is the Steve Magness article I was referring to above. Pretty much along the lines of what Peter is saying.

Here is another article I read, I believe Seiler linked to it on Twitter.

In the spirit of the thread, here's a turbo I did last week that I enjoyed. Might be of interest to someone. Not to taxing either.

Turbo:
60mins at IM intensity with a cadence of 60

30 mins as
10x(10secs hard, 50secs easy)
2x(8mins at HIM intensity, 2mins easy)

Enjoy.

P.

tunney · 31-03-2020 8:25pm

peter kern wrote: »

I guess there can be no answer fits all
the facts are until a certain level sport increases the immun system at the same time as you can see how many people come back from training camps with a cold there is a limit to what is good or when system start to get compromised .
If you are used to train 20 hours 15 hours and some intesity shoukd be save
if you are used to train 6 hours going up to 12 hours now with .loads of intensity I would not consider that a smart move .especially if one is aged let's say 45 plus
Health history is also to consider .

At the end peop,e have to make their own decisions and Joe not so blocks who has a wife that is a Dr did 350 k the other day on the bike, but I guess that shoukd safely keep hin in 85 15 lol
But the equation has to be i traing history xntenstiy x duration x health history . Not just intensity

Aye.

Intensity in isolation does not cause overtraining. Overtraining suppresses the immune system.

peter kern · 31-03-2020 10:45pm

tunney wrote: »

Aye.

Intensity in isolation does not cause overtraining. Overtraining suppresses the immune system.

If you don't mind I would slightly disagree or better said expand a bit more .the immunsystem starts to get weakened before overtraining
genealogy speaking somewhere around 13to 15 or so hour training a week the immunsystem starts to get weaker again something like 20 hours is similar to doing no sport or already slightly worse on immunsystem ie weaker than lest say 5 TO 10 HOURS A WEEK.( this tends to be the area where the immunsystem is the strongest ) of course this is again affected by many things and more a rule over the thumb .
Hygiene , sleep hygiene and nutrition . Stress etc play into it .

Besides a hard session does supress the immune system for a few hours so I would not go shopping straight after a hard session etc. A longer session does not supres the system as much but for longer .

I was listenin to something where the guy was very vocal on just training one hour a day and I do not agree with that but what he did say was do no harm and with that i agree it's better to be a bit on the save side at the moment . And many people should know what their achilis is and if not I guess not the best time to find out now. I tend not to get lll much but hard intensive sessions in the cold and humid don't agree to much with me . And other people get realy worn out after long sessions which never affect me realy .

tunney · 01-04-2020 9:46am

peter kern wrote: »

Besides a hard session does supress the immune system for a few hours so I would not go shopping straight after a hard session etc. A longer session does not supres the system as much but for longer .

Not as many believers in the window of infection these days.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5911985/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180420122807.htm

However who knows what happens in the immune system and each to their own and all that.

peter kern · 01-04-2020 4:00pm

tunney wrote: »

Not as many believers in the window of infection these days.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5911985/

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180420122807.htm

However who knows what happens in the immune system and each to their own and all that.

I would say rather than debunking it's more inconclusive . And I would definitely agree other factors are more important such as stress sleep nutirion .

The same principles apply to other cell functions, such as in vitro proliferation in response to mitogenic stimuli. However, with this measurement in particular, the commonly reported increase in T cell proliferation immediately after acute bouts of exercise is also strongly influenced by laboratory processes and in vitro assay conditions (e.g., blood processing, temperature, mitogen selection) (126). A recent meta-analysis of 24 studies concluded that lymphocyte proliferation is suppressed following acute bouts of exercise, and that a greater magnitude of suppression is caused by exercise lasting longer than 1 h, regardless of exercise intensity (127). However, this meta-analysis did not examine the most important determinant of cell function following exercise: the time-dependent changes in the cellular composition of the samples assayed. Thus, findings such as these should be interpreted with caution if analyses did not differentiate between studies collecting samples immediately after exercise or in the hours following.

Kurt_Godel. · 02-04-2020 8:23pm

Peter and Dave citing sports science; and a forum "turbo-of-the-week" just to keep spirits up.

Can't we have both?

peter kern · 03-04-2020 12:13pm

Kurt_Godel. wrote: »

Peter and Dave citing sports science; and a forum "turbo-of-the-week" just to keep spirits up.

Can't we have both?[/quo
You can have both at the end it's up to you what you do after you asses the cost and benefit .it was a fair point raised by Paul .and no harm to think about the potential impacts.

pgibbo · 06-04-2020 9:48am

Here's another session that I did last week. People can alter as appropriate.

20mins warmup as 4x5mins building from easy to RPE 9 out of 10
4x10mins at RPE 8 out of 10. Recovery is when you feel ready to go again.

If getting back in to things I'd suggest dialing the RPE levels back a notch or two.

Enjoy.

P.

Turbo of the week

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