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Smart Intruder Alarms

24567…13

Comments

  • #32
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Actually garion, there is one thing you could test, it would be great. Do they have server side polling and how frequent is it?

    To test this, with no sim in, either disconnect it from your broadband or turn off your broadband and wait and see if you receive a notification from that app about the hub being offline (obviously you need to make sure you are on 3g/4g on your phone for this to work).


  • #33
    garion
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭garion


    bk wrote: »
    Actually garion, there is one thing you could test, it would be great. Do they have server side polling and how frequent is it?

    To test this, with no sim in, either disconnect it from your broadband or turn off your broadband and wait and see if you receive a notification from that app about the hub being offline (obviously you need to make sure you are on 3g/4g on your phone for this to work).

    Looks like there is server side polling. I disconnected the hub from the internet (no wifi on Hub 2 so just disconnected the ethernet cable). It took probably 10 mins, but I then received this notification in the AJAX app. The hub is still offline and I haven't received any further notifications.


  • #34
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    garion wrote: »
    Looks like there is server side polling. I disconnected the hub from the internet (no wifi on Hub 2 so just disconnected the ethernet cable). It took probably 10 mins, but I then received this notification in the AJAX app. The hub is still offline and I haven't received any further notifications.

    Thanks for checking. Even 10 minute polling is really good. Yale has no polling and HKC polling I believe is every 90 minutes unless you pay more for more frequent polling.

    Of course polling isn't a big deal if you are using the SIM as a backup, but handy to still have it.

    BTW I was looking at the specs of their Ajax Hub Plus, it actually supports two SIM cards! Which means if one doesn't work, it can switch to the other! It also supports two broadband connections simultaneously, one over wifi and the other over ethernet (obviously you'd need to have two separate broadband services) and it can failover between them too if one goes down.

    This is effectively 4 path comms channels + 10 minute polling. This is pretty impressive stuff, probably overkill for residential setup, but nice options for higher risk commercial setups.


  • #35
    garion
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭garion


    bk wrote: »
    Thanks for checking. Even 10 minute polling is really good. Yale has no polling and HKC polling I believe is every 90 minutes unless you pay more for more frequent polling.

    Of course polling isn't a big deal if you are using the SIM as a backup, but handy to still have it.

    BTW I was looking at the specs of their Ajax Hub Plus, it actually supports two SIM cards! Which means if one doesn't work, it can switch to the other! It also supports two broadband connections simultaneously, one over wifi and the other over ethernet (obviously you'd need to have two separate broadband services) and it can failover between them too if one goes down.

    This is effectively 4 path comms channels + 10 minute polling. This is pretty impressive stuff, probably overkill for residential setup, but nice options for higher risk commercial setups.

    Yeah that Hub 2 also has 2 SIM slots, but no wifi. The only other difference between the Hub & Hub 2 seems to be the ability to work with the motion cameras they have.

    Think the Hub Plus allows for up to 150 sensors connected to it too, Hub & Hub 2 is 100. I won't get near that number anyway!


  • #36
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    garion wrote: »
    Yeah that Hub 2 also has 2 SIM slots, but no wifi. The only other difference between the Hub & Hub 2 seems to be the ability to work with the motion cameras they have.

    Think the Hub Plus allows for up to 150 sensors connected to it too, Hub & Hub 2 is 100. I won't get near that number anyway!

    Oh totally. And cool on the Hub 2 having 2 sims too, that basically means this system has 3 path comms which is far better then most systems anyway. Though obviously you'd need to install 2 sims from two different networks to really take advantage of that, probably still overkill, but nice to have the option.


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  • #37
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    Price seems very reasonable to me, did a quick flick through what I would need and without going overboard it comes in around 600 euro, 3 bed semi.

    I noticed the hikvison cameras can be connected, which is good. Just wondering if the cameras can be set to push notify if they detect motion?!

    All in all looks like a great system, I also like the fact you can add on as you go, finances don’t always allow to fork out for the entire system all in one go.


  • #38
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    bk wrote: »
    BTW, folks seem to be already working on HomeAssistant support for it:
    https://community.home-assistant.io/t/ajax-alarm-system/62853/36

    Yes some folk are (not the manufacturer), but this is not a feature the alarm system is sold with. According to the link you posted this can achieved by "stripping an Ajax SpaceControl remote and solder it to a remote controlled relay. For example a Sonoff or similar and then connect that to HA."

    I think it is unwise to arm and disarm an alarm in this way as it compromises the security of the system. The same poster on the above link concedes that this is the case: "But you need to understand the security implications of doing this".


  • #39
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    2011 wrote: »
    Yes some folk are (not the manufacturer), but this is not a feature the alarm system is sold with. According to the link you posted this can achieved by "stripping an Ajax SpaceControl remote and solder it to a remote controlled relay. For example a Sonoff or similar and then connect that to HA."

    I think it is unwise to arm and disarm an alarm in this way as it compromises the security of the system. The same poster on the above link concedes that this is the case: "But you need to understand the security implications of doing this".

    Errr... Here is the full quote:

    https://community.home-assistant.io/t/ajax-alarm-system/62853/35
    Yes, only one way. I use it purely for reading the status of the alarm and to automate things based on that.

    If you want two way for the possibility to arm and disarm the alarm there is no Ajax supported solution. You could achieve it by stripping an Ajax SpaceControl remote and solder it to a remote controlled relay. For example a Sonoff or similar and then connect that to HA. But you need to understand the security implications of doing this.

    Note the part I've highlighted in bold. So as the post points out, the normal HomeAutomation integration is one way only, it allows you to monitor the state of the alarm (disarmed, armed home, armed night, alarm triggered and smoke and leak sensors triggered), but it doesn't allow you to control the alarm.

    It is something that is handy to allow you to trigger home and away routines in HA via monitoring what you set the Ajax system to. A nice and completely safe integration.

    The person then goes on to speculate that you could set up two way control with some soldering of the remote, of course something you could do with almost any alarm system with a remote like this. But this isn't something most people are doing with their Ajax integration into HA and the poster points out the security implications of doing so.

    BTW The way that they are doing this one way monitoring of the Ajax system is quiet ingenious. They are basically faking being a remote monitoring service and using the protocols a remote monitoring company would use to monitor the system.


  • #40
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    bk wrote: »
    Note the part I've highlighted in bold. So as the post points out, the normal HomeAutomation integration is one way only, it allows you to monitor the state of the alarm (disarmed, armed home, armed night, alarm triggered and smoke and leak sensors triggered), but it doesn't allow you to control the alarm.

    Agreed. I like this feature.

    However, I was referring to the first part of the previous link you posted, note the part in bold:
    If you want two way for the possibility to arm and disarm the alarm there is no Ajax supported solution. You could achieve it by stripping an Ajax SpaceControl remote and solder it to a remote controlled relay. For example a Sonoff or similar and then connect that to HA.

    It is something that is handy to allow you to trigger home and away routines in HA via monitoring what you set the Ajax system to. A nice and completely safe integration.

    Agree 100%
    BTW The way that they are doing this one way monitoring of the Ajax system is quiet ingenious.

    Yes, it is a good solid way for digital I/O interface. This is nothing new for intruder alarm systems though, in fact it is quite old school. This is how far older “conventional” alarms have been connected to third party devices such as text alerts for a long time.

    In industry interposing relays are commonly used in this way to control and monitor many devices.


  • #41
    garion
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭garion


    Received an additional shipment of AJAX sensors from https://webshop.best-alarm-system.eu/en/ with no issues. Took about a week for delivery as they had to wait for one of the sensors to come back into stock.

    Delivery was a flat €25 and free for orders over €1000. There was a site wide 10% discount running last weekend so might be worth keeping an eye out.

    Been using AJAX for about a week now and all going well. No false alarms and triggering when it should. Arming/Disarming remotely working without issue too.


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  • #42
    Fishdoodle
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭Fishdoodle


    Excellent thread- thank you all for the info!
    I've been researching alarms for weeks, learned a ton of stuff and glad to see alternatives to trad. systems.

    Regarding Ajax, -Seems a great alarm. An interesting glitch I came accross relating to the app, relavent if you've added your neighbour for notification:

    "If I want users outside my family (neighbours etc) to be notified for an intrusion or when the devices have been tampered with, I must allow these users to see all activity history and also realtime activity of when I am in and when I am away from my house. This invades the customer's privacy!"

    https://www.trustpilot.com/review/ajax.systems

    Ajax Reply:
    At the moment, our security system does not provide the ability to filter events in the event feed of the application for specific users......

    In the next updates we plan to add the ability to filter events in the application for specific users, but at the moment we don’t ready to disclose release date.

    Currently, you can turn off event feed for your neighbor’s, but turn on SMS and calls. In this case, they’ll receive messages in case of alarm.

    ..............................
    This was the only negative I came accross when researching Ajax, and should be ironed out in due course.

    I was looking at installing a Ring Home Monitoring system, but Ajax looks to be the better optin overall.


  • #43
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Fishdoodle wrote: »
    Ajax Reply:
    At the moment, our security system does not provide the ability to filter events in the event feed of the application for specific users......

    In the next updates we plan to add the ability to filter events in the application for specific users, but at the moment we don’t ready to disclose release date.

    Currently, you can turn off event feed for your neighbor’s, but turn on SMS and calls. In this case, they’ll receive messages in case of alarm.

    I have to say, this really impresses me. No system is perfect, they all have flaws, however the Ajax system seems to have an excellent website and the fact that they have a forum and actively engage with customers there greatly impresses me.

    The fact that they are willing to take feedback, say that they are working on it and give you a decent alternative solution for the time being is really great.

    It shows very active development of the system, that is what you want to see. This is something that a lot of other systems greatly lack IMO.


  • #44
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    bk wrote: »
    BTW Maybe one of the mods could pull out garions review and other posts and create a new thread title "Ajax Systems"? I think this deserves it's own thread given how interesting it is.

    Agree with this, I’m definitely going to pull the trigger on this system next month, I’ll add to it then when time allows


  • #45
    whosedaddy?
    Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭whosedaddy?


    garion wrote: »
    Sorry I get you now. Each DoorProtect and DoorProtectPlus comes with 2 magnets. One large one (like in the pics I attached above) and also a small mini-one. I haven't tried it yet but the settings show a primary detector and an external contact. I believe you can connect the external contact (via a wire provided in the box) to the DoorProtect(Plus) like you've described above.

    I'll try it out later and let you know.

    Hi. did you get a chance to try this?
    until now my plan was self-installing a SPC4320 to make use of my mostly prewired house (still need a couple of wireless sensors, but no inertias).

    Or succumb to my inner geek and cut the cables and put this one in... :D


  • #46
    garion
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭garion


    whosedaddy? wrote: »
    Hi. did you get a chance to try this?
    until now my plan was self-installing a SPC4320 to make use of my mostly prewired house (still need a couple of wireless sensors, but no inertias).

    Or succumb to my inner geek and cut the cables and put this one in... :D

    I asked the folks at Best Alarms about the connector and they confirmed it was to connect to an external (non-AJAX) sensor. I've no idea what type of sensor would be compatible though. What's included in the AJAX sensor is just for AJAX - either the small or big magnets on the DoorProtect can be used, but not together via the wire that comes with the sensor.

    Might be worth contacting AJAX directly via their support page to get their thoughts?


  • #47
    whosedaddy?
    Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭whosedaddy?


    garion wrote: »
    I asked the folks at Best Alarms about the connector and they confirmed it was to connect to an external (non-AJAX) sensor. I've no idea what type of sensor would be compatible though. What's included in the AJAX sensor is just for AJAX - either the small or big magnets on the DoorProtect can be used, but not together via the wire that comes with the sensor.

    Might be worth contacting AJAX directly via their support page to get their thoughts?

    thanks. will do.


  • #48
    Fishdoodle
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭Fishdoodle


    So, back to the Ajax:

    For a regular 3/4 bedroom house, which Hub would be reccomended? Hub 2 or hub Plus?

    The Hub 2, is the the latest as I understand (and supports the PIR camera, unlike the HUB/Hub+)

    Hub 2 can operate on a backup Sim: 2G Network
    The Hub+ can operate on a backup Sim: 2G AND/OR 3G Network

    I was thinking the 3G would be the safest bet for a backup ...but maybe I'm wrong, perhaps 2G is fine into the future?

    Any advice on which hub would be the most suitable overall with main emphasis on 2 Vs 3 G?


  • #49
    maxamillius
    Registered Users Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭maxamillius


    Do we know if there is any integration with Phillips hue?


  • #50
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    maxamillius wrote: »
    Do we know if there is any integration with Phillips hue?

    Not directly. Though unofficially you could set something up using Home Assistant. But no guarantee.


  • #51
    garion
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭garion


    garion wrote: »
    Here's a few pics of the DoorProtectPlus with the contact magnet.

    Also some screenshots of the app settings for the Hub.

    See original post here with the screenshots attached.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112370383&postcount=72


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  • #52
    garion
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭garion


    garion wrote: »
    Some more app screenshots for the DoorProtectPlus and CombiMotion sensors.

    See original post here for screenshots: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=112370395&postcount=73


  • #53
    garion
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭garion


    Picked up a PAYG SIM from Vodafone. €20 for SIM plus €20 free credit. Just need to top up by €5 every 6 months to keep it active.

    Popped it in the Ajax Hub, disconnected the ethernet cable, triggered a sensor and immediately alerts came through via push notification.

    I then enabled the SMS setting for alerts on my user account too and tested it. Again, push notification came through and then also an SMS, as per screenshot attached.

    Overall, very happy to have an easy backup in case WiFi goes down.


  • #54
    securitylover
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭securitylover


    garion wrote: »
    I bought from a Spainish reseller ( which seemed to be the best value from the countries I tried.
    Came to about E1150 with a 8-10% discount I managed to blag from pinging them on chat.

    So not cheap as I said... but I think compared to other "professional" level systems is probably not too much more?

    i did the same, they gave me this discountcode, which still seems to work: "actie10".
    They told me it would work only ones, but i ordered twice now with this code, and got 10% discount. So i think it works always :)

    i ordered on sunday and received everything on wednesday.

    i ordered on: webshop.best-alarm-system.eu


  • #55
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    I was planning to get the Ajax alarm because I didn't want monitoring... but I got an offer of free installation from Home Secure... all I have to do is play monitoring of €35/month for three years...

    They are providing sensors on external doors, all downstairs windows, two PIR motion detectors, key panel & exterior siren/light box...

    One thing they mentioned is that they are no longer providing the NFC fob, but that it now works via the app... Before I sign up, is there anything I need to consider? Does the app use NFC or geofencing? It seems reasonable value to me...

    THey say after the three years, that I can chose to cancel the monitoring. Will I be able to switch to the Ajax app after that?


  • #56
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    I was planning to get the Ajax alarm because I didn't want monitoring... but I got an offer of free installation from Home Secure... all I have to do is play monitoring of €35/month for three years...

    They are providing sensors on external doors, all downstairs windows, two PIR motion detectors, key panel & exterior siren/light box...

    One thing they mentioned is that they are no longer providing the NFC fob, but that it now works via the app... Before I sign up, is there anything I need to consider? Does the app use NFC or geofencing? It seems reasonable value to me...

    THey say after the three years, that I can chose to cancel the monitoring. Will I be able to switch to the Ajax app after that?

    Be warned....if you have an existing alarm, despite what the sales guys say, the installers will not remove it!


  • #57
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    peteb2 wrote: »
    Be warned....if you have an existing alarm, despite what the sales guys say, the installers will not remove it!

    New house, so no existing alarm.

    I have gone back through my notes and there is no mention of the external siren... what they say is:
    HomeSecure Intruder Deterrent AlarmBox for exterior of the house
    Free LED included to deter burglars (usually additional)


  • #58
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    I was planning to get the Ajax alarm because I didn't want monitoring... but I got an offer of free installation from Home Secure... all I have to do is play monitoring of €35/month for three years...

    They are providing sensors on external doors, all downstairs windows, two PIR motion detectors, key panel & exterior siren/light box...

    One thing they mentioned is that they are no longer providing the NFC fob, but that it now works via the app... Before I sign up, is there anything I need to consider? Does the app use NFC or geofencing? It seems reasonable value to me...

    THey say after the three years, that I can chose to cancel the monitoring. Will I be able to switch to the Ajax app after that?

    So, nearly 1300 euro for an alarm system consisting of 2 pir's and what 4 door/window sensors ?


  • #59
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    So, nearly 1300 euro for an alarm system consisting of 2 pir's and what 4 door/window sensors ?

    We'll that's a bit disingenuous... While the equipment cost would be just over €500, it also covers installation, SIM and credit, monitoring and battery changes over three years. While I originally wasn't looking for a monitored system, this offer makes it more appealing and gives me the opportunity to reassess in three years.


  • #60
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    We'll that's a bit disingenuous... While the equipment cost would be just over €500, it also covers installation, SIM and credit, monitoring and battery changes over three years. While I originally wasn't looking for a monitored system, this offer makes it more appealing and gives me the opportunity to reassess in three years.

    - A system like this would take you about one hour to install, very easy.
    - SIM credit, about €30 over 3 years
    - Battery changes! Shouldn't be any, the batteries in this system are rated for 3 to 7 years.
    - Monitoring, a self installed system also has free self monitoring.

    And the most important question, what happens after 3 years? Will you continue to own the system? Can you buy and add extra sensors yourself? Will you be able to use it with self monitoring or a different monitoring company after 3 years or will it just be useless or non monitored alarm only?

    Of course do what you prefer, but make sure you are well informed on your choice and have everything they promise in writing.


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  • #61
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,699 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    bk wrote: »
    And the most important question, what happens after 3 years?
    After 3 years you can cancel the contract. All equipment reverts to your ownership, security company give you all appropriate codes to allow you to use the Ajax app
    bk wrote: »
    Will you continue to own the system?
    Yes, in full
    bk wrote: »
    Can you buy and add extra sensors yourself?
    Yes, you can, but may need the security co to add them to their system. I'm looking further into this. Obviously after the three years you can add sensors as you wish
    bk wrote: »
    Will you be able to use it with self monitoring or a different monitoring company after 3 years or will it just be useless or non monitored alarm only?
    Yes, after three years it can be handed over to you and you can self monitor or chose to use another monitoring service if you wish


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