Wifi mesh systems

Damien360 · 15-01-2021 8:46pm

GrumPy wrote: »

For those that have Google Nest/ Wifi Mesh. I picked this up while it was reduced over Christmas. I'm moving into a new house in a couple of weeks, and have yet to decide on an internet provider.
What provider offers the best compatibility? I ask because I play ALOT of online games (PC, xbox & ps) and I've read online that some service providers, when leveraged using Google nest configuration; have issues like double NAT and can mess up with port settings etc.
Can anyone suggest what might be best? Sky seems to be the least Nest Wifi friendly.

I have google mesh system on the back end of my virgin media 360 connection. VM in modem mode, google in router mode. Lots of options, can reserve IP addresses, ports are easy to open, menu system is decent. Young lad plays a lot of gaming via steam, epic etc. I use it for PS4 and google stadia (trying to justify it to myself), and there are absolutely no double NAT or connection issues whatsoever. Minecraft VR with ports open on lads pc also. Works with his buddies without glitches.

54and56 · 15-01-2021 8:46pm

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Just do a trace route, you should only see the mesh router not 2 private up addresses.
On Windows tracert type www.google.com in CMD

Thanks Gooey Looey,

This is what I get

Don't think there's any IP address info there that's not ok to post publicly but please do alert me if I shouldn't be posting it.

Damien360 · 15-01-2021 8:49pm

54and56 wrote: »

Thanks.

I believe my Virgin box is set to Modem mode bit it's at least 6-7 years since that was set up and the old router was given a static IP etc.

Is there anyway to access the Virgin box to check what the current settings are or would that require a call to their helpdesk?

FYI I'm on a business broadband package with them. Not sure if that makes any difference or not.

Modem mode IP for VM is 192.168.100.1
Router mode default VM 192.168.0.1

You don’t need Helpdesk

54and56 · 15-01-2021 9:24pm

Damien360 wrote: »

Modem mode IP for VM is 192.168.100.1
Router mode default VM 192.168.0.1

You don’t need Helpdesk

Apologies if this is a silly question but what do I do with those IP addresses?

When I type them into Google i get an error that "This site can't be reached".

Shedite27 · 15-01-2021 9:39pm

54and56 wrote: »

Apologies if this is a silly question but what do I do with those IP addresses?

When I type them into Google i get an error that "This site can't be reached".

Are you connected via the wifi?

54and56 · 15-01-2021 9:45pm

Shedite27 wrote: »

Are you connected via the wifi?

No, tried on the Ethernet connected PC.

It's possible one of the 5 static IP addresses Virgin gave me was somehow allocated to the PC, I seem to remember that happening when the Asus router was originally set up which the Virgin helpdesk guided me through.

Gooey Looey · 15-01-2021 11:50pm

54and56 wrote: »

Thanks Gooey Looey,

This is what I get

Don't think there's any IP address info there that's not ok to post publicly but please do alert me if I shouldn't be posting it.

Those are all public ips so you should be fine

54and56 · 15-01-2021 11:53pm

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Those are all public ips so you should be fine

Thanks Gooey Looey,

Can you tell me what it all means?

Gooey Looey · 16-01-2021 12:00am

54and56 wrote: »

Thanks Gooey Looey,

Can you tell me what it all means?

It means you are not double Natting which is what you want

54and56 · 16-01-2021 12:07am

Gooey Looey wrote: »

It means you are not double Natting which is what you want

So it looks "good"?

It's hard to tell given all the time out's etc :-)

avud · 16-01-2021 10:15am

Hi
I'm considering getting the google nest mesh system due to wifi black spots especially upstairs. I live in a standard 4 bed detached. My supplier is Eir with up to 100 mb download speeds and I have their supplied fibre F2000 router.
Has anyone tried the google system on a similar setup and does it work, im not tech savvy but I'm reading about issues like NAT etc on forms.
If the goigle isn't compatible any suggestions of an alternative option

Advice appreciated

Shedite27 · 16-01-2021 12:23pm

Hi, I bought Google Next Router with one Nest Access Point.

Tried to set them up, WiFi seems fine from the Nest Router, the AccessPoint is beating me.

I went through and set it up following the steps, but it seems to be operating basically as just a Google Home (receiving WiFi and accepting voice commands) but not as an Access Point boosting WiFi.

On the Google home app...
It appears as a Device (Bedroom), when I go to WiFi I can see it as a device but when I click “Points” it’s just showing me the router (kitchen).

On the Google WiFi app...
It’s just showing the Internet, WiFi Point (that’s the router/kitchen), Devices. It should be showing another should it?

Screenshots attached. Thanks

babelfish1990 · 16-01-2021 12:46pm

avud wrote: »

Hi
I'm considering getting the google nest mesh system due to wifi black spots especially upstairs. I live in a standard 4 bed detached. My supplier is Eir with up to 100 mb download speeds and I have their supplied fibre F2000 router.
Has anyone tried the google system on a similar setup and does it work, im not tech savvy but I'm reading about issues like NAT etc on forms.
If the goigle isn't compatible any suggestions of an alternative option

Advice appreciated

Don't use Google WiFi. While it is an excellent device on it's own, you will end up with NAT issues when you have more than one device - which negates the main advantage of Mesh.

If you have Cat5/Cat6 wiring in your house, I would recommend Ubiquiti Unifi devices, as these can be powered off the Ethernet cables (POE). If you don't have wiring go for a Mesh system that allows you to put the entire Mesh into "AP Mode". Switch off the WiFi in your Eir Router, and revert to using the Eir Router as a modem/router only, rather than a source of WiFi. TP Link Deco series are a reliable make, that support AP mode. Never use the Mesh system in router mode, or you will have NAT issues.

Some nerds and mesh manufacturers recommend you ditch your ISP router - Bad advice, unless you are very experienced in networking technology. Your ISP router provides your firewall, and is continuously managed by Eir. They will keep security patches up-to-date, and manage the settings remotely. If you ditch your router, you will have to be prepared to manage everything yourself.

54and56 · 16-01-2021 12:47pm

Damien360 wrote: »

Modem mode IP for VM is 192.168.100.1
Router mode default VM 192.168.0.1

You don’t need Helpdesk

Hi Damien360,

I can't connect to those IP addresses regardless of whether I try via a WiFi connected Win 10 laptop / Android phone or via the Ethernet connected Win 10 PC.

I might give VM helpdesk a call on Monday to see if they can help me figure out how to access the modem and check it's settings etc.

Here's my latest cloudflare result from a Win 10 Mesh WiFi connected laptop.

avud · 16-01-2021 4:07pm

babelfish1990 wrote: »

Don't use Google WiFi. While it is an excellent device on it's own, you will end up with NAT issues when you have more than one device - which negates the main advantage of Mesh.

If you have Cat5/Cat6 wiring in your house, I would recommend Ubiquiti Unifi devices, as these can be powered off the Ethernet cables (POE). If you don't have wiring go for a Mesh system that allows you to put the entire Mesh into "AP Mode". Switch off the WiFi in your Eir Router, and revert to using the Eir Router as a modem/router only, rather than a source of WiFi. TP Link Deco series are a reliable make, that support AP mode. Never use the Mesh system in router mode, or you will have NAT issues.

Some nerds and mesh manufacturers recommend you ditch your ISP router - Bad advice, unless you are very experienced in networking technology. Your ISP router provides your firewall, and is continuously managed by Eir. They will keep security patches up-to-date, and manage the settings remotely. If you ditch your router, you will have to be prepared to manage everything yourself.

Thanks very much for your advice you saved me lots of hassle there. The house isn't hardwired for ethernet unfortunately, so I guess the TP Deco is my option. Can you recommend one particular model please

babelfish1990 · 16-01-2021 6:45pm

avud wrote: »

Thanks very much for your advice you saved me lots of hassle there. The house isn't hardwired for ethernet unfortunately, so I guess the TP Deco is my option. Can you recommend one particular model please

A TPLink M4 3-pack should be perfectly adequate for you - expect to pay around €160 - well worth the money. If you want to shell out a little more - you could go for the M5 - slightly higher spec, and neater nodes, if space is an issue - around €200 for a 3-pack.

Clareman · 16-01-2021 9:56pm

babelfish1990 wrote: »

Don't use Google WiFi. While it is an excellent device on it's own, you will end up with NAT issues when you have more than one device - which negates the main advantage of Mesh.

If you have Cat5/Cat6 wiring in your house, I would recommend Ubiquiti Unifi devices, as these can be powered off the Ethernet cables (POE). If you don't have wiring go for a Mesh system that allows you to put the entire Mesh into "AP Mode". Switch off the WiFi in your Eir Router, and revert to using the Eir Router as a modem/router only, rather than a source of WiFi. TP Link Deco series are a reliable make, that support AP mode. Never use the Mesh system in router mode, or you will have NAT issues.

Some nerds and mesh manufacturers recommend you ditch your ISP router - Bad advice, unless you are very experienced in networking technology. Your ISP router provides your firewall, and is continuously managed by Eir. They will keep security patches up-to-date, and manage the settings remotely. If you ditch your router, you will have to be prepared to manage everything yourself.

I don't know what you mean about the Google Mesh, I have it and don't have a problem and I do all types of online gaming (consoles, PC and Shield) with no problem.

Gooey Looey · 16-01-2021 10:01pm

Clareman wrote: »

I don't know what you mean about the Google Mesh, I have it and don't have a problem and I do all types of online gaming (consoles, PC and Shield) with no problem.

If you have double NAT you have issues just not realised it yet. It breaks so many things, hosting pc and console games, VPN, VOIP, strict SSL and many more protocols get broken. Your PC and devices use plug and play to open the ports on the Google WiFi firewall then the ports remain blocked on your main router. It should never be 2 hops to the internet without careful planning and routing.

Clareman · 16-01-2021 10:06pm

I'm using all that as well as hosting a plex server, no issues whatsoever. Just checked it there, I've 50 devices connected at the moment and no problem I used VPN and VOIP for ~40 hours every week without a single issue. I also access all different types of smart devices (heat, lights, fans, cameras, alarm, vacuum) without a single issue. Everything just works, no issues with anything, gaming varies from PS5/Xbox X/PC to Counter Strike to Shield. I tried Stadia as well, didn't like it but didn't have a connection issue.

Gooey Looey · 16-01-2021 10:09pm

Clareman wrote: »

I'm using all that as well as hosting a plex server, no issues whatsoever. Just checked it there, I've 50 devices connected at the moment and no problem I used VPN and VOIP for ~40 hours every week without a single issue. I also access all different types of smart devices (heat, lights, fans, cameras, alarm, vacuum) without a single issue. Everything just works, no issues with anything, gaming varies from PS5/Xbox X/PC to Counter Strike to Shield. I tried Stadia as well, didn't like it but didn't have a connection issue.

You don't have double NAT! Or you are connecting these devices to your main router

"What is Double NAT? | Answer | NETGEAR Support" https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT

Clareman · 16-01-2021 10:13pm

Gooey Looey wrote: »

You don't have double NAT! Or you are connecting these devices to your main router

"What is Double NAT? | Answer | NETGEAR Support" https://kb.netgear.com/30186/What-is-Double-NAT

Most devices are on the wifi, some are wired but not many. I've the ISP router as a passthrough which is removing the double NAT issue I think.

Gooey Looey · 16-01-2021 10:14pm

Clareman wrote: »

Most devices are on the wifi, some are wired but not many. I've the ISP router as a passthrough which is removing the double NAT issue I think.

You don't have double NAT, you have bridged your ISP router!

I have the same here.

FTTH doesn't use a modem, just a router, so you can replace the router with another but this router must support vlan tagging on the wan which isn't possible on a Google WiFi. This is the point that was being made

Mgit · 16-01-2021 10:18pm

I have linksys velop and it had double nat by default or at least uses a different subnet for the wireless clients which is a disaster as ethernet smart tvs etc are not accessible by WiFi clients.

I changed mine to ap mode works OK after, unless you're techie I'd stay away from the velop, they're good when setup but can be tricky to get going right.

I have the dual mode velop and both nodes on ethernet, get 300 to 400mbps on 5ghz WiFi.

Tried bt whole home and it was a disaster, screen mirroring from mobiles kept dropping, returned to argos for refund.

Gooey Looey · 16-01-2021 10:43pm

Mgit wrote: »

I have linksys velop and it had double nat by default or at least uses a different subnet for the wireless clients which is a disaster as ethernet smart tvs etc are not accessible by WiFi clients.

I changed mine to ap mode works OK after, unless you're techie I'd stay away from the velop, they're good when setup but can be tricky to get going right.

If they were both connected to the Velop that's most likely a security setting called client isolation or AP isolation there's little need for it on a home network
"Linksys Official Support - Getting to know the AP Isolation function" https://www.linksys.com/gb/support-article?articleNum=135098

The thing about running a mesh system in AP mode is you are missing out on most of the router features you've paid for

Daveq · 16-01-2021 10:54pm

54and56 wrote: »

So I got and installed the 2 unit TaoTronics AC300 Tri-Band Mesh WiFi system yesterday.

Any thoughts / suggestions?

Is it possible I've somehow ended up with a double NAT scenario or something similar which is creating a delay in traffic?

I have the same system with a Virgin Media Hub 3.0. WiFi disabled on VM Hub, no fixed IPs
All settings on TT as default. UPNP enabled etc..
I have the IOT 2.4 disabled and just connected my IOT devices to the standard 2.4ghz band that it uses. It should provide two 5ghz bands and a 2.4ghz on the same SSID.
And I have 5ghz on 80m instead of Auto.
I have a NAS drive connected via ethernet to the VM Hub instead of the TT router and can still access it using its IP so I think that means VM Hub is providing IP addresses.

In the app click on the globe on the home page. See what IP address for the gateway is. Mine is showing as 192.168.0.1 which is my VM Hub.

Gerry T · 17-01-2021 3:26pm

Looking for a little help, I have the Huawei Q2, 6 units in total around the house. Connected to a Virgin Hub 3. I have the Virgin wifi disabled on 2.4 and 5GHz.
I'm getting 240 Mbps which I'm happy with but after about a week it drops to 20 Mbps. If I switch off both the main Huawei and Virgin router the speed goes back up to 240.
Reading here I see people suggesting there can be a conflict with two routers and the Virgin one should be put in bridge mode, thinking that might be an issue. I've connected to the Virgin Hub but I can't see anywhere in the settings to do this. Is switching off the wifi the same as bridge mode or are there other settings that might need changing.

degsie · 17-01-2021 5:09pm

Gerry T wrote: »

Looking for a little help, I have the Huawei Q2, 6 units in total around the house. Connected to a Virgin Hub 3. I have the Virgin wifi disabled on 2.4 and 5GHz.
I'm getting 240 Mbps which I'm happy with but after about a week it drops to 20 Mbps. If I switch off both the main Huawei and Virgin router the speed goes back up to 240.
Reading here I see people suggesting there can be a conflict with two routers and the Virgin one should be put in bridge mode, thinking that might be an issue. I've connected to the Virgin Hub but I can't see anywhere in the settings to do this. Is switching off the wifi the same as bridge mode or are there other settings that might need changing.

Generally you have to options:
1) Bridge your ISP's router so that it is in 'modem only' mode and set your 'base' mesh unit to router mode, or
b) Set your 'base' mesh unit to access point mode and connect to one of the ISP's router's lan ports
In either case turn off the ISP's router wifi.

ratracer · 17-01-2021 5:14pm

Gerry T wrote: »

Looking for a little help, I have the Huawei Q2, 6 units in total around the house. Connected to a Virgin Hub 3. I have the Virgin wifi disabled on 2.4 and 5GHz.
I'm getting 240 Mbps which I'm happy with but after about a week it drops to 20 Mbps. If I switch off both the main Huawei and Virgin router the speed goes back up to 240.
Reading here I see people suggesting there can be a conflict with two routers and the Virgin one should be put in bridge mode, thinking that might be an issue. I've connected to the Virgin Hub but I can't see anywhere in the settings to do this. Is switching off the wifi the same as bridge mode or are there other settings that might need changing.

If you follow the bargain alerts thread for the Q2, I’ve posted about my experience with it in their. I had similar trouble with mine, would keep needing to be reset. I sent the first one back for inspection, I was told it had a fault ( but not told what the fault was), and a new one would be sent out. The new ones did the exact same thing after a week or so. I sent them back, they were also judged to be faulty. I eventually received my money back.

I would suggest that if there is an issue with yours, you should initiate a repair/ refund ASAP, if you leave if too long, you will be left with a whole pile of useless tech.

RangeR · 17-01-2021 5:16pm

degsie wrote: »

Generally you have to options:
1) Bridge your ISP's router so that it is in 'modem only' mode and set your 'base' mesh unit to router mode, or
b) Set your 'base' mesh unit to access point mode and connect to one of the ISP's router's lan ports

Generally these are your two options. I'd go with option 1. Bridge your ISP router.

Option 3 is to get around double natting, which is what I think you have [2 routers in router mode]. I do this. I have actually 3 routers. VM router but in bridge mode. Google WIFI as the main internal router. and an edge router as a VPN server routing all outbound traffic from all internal devices through the VPN. But it took a while to get right. It's not for the faint hearted.

Double Natting is not bad, once you know it's there and build rules around it. It just complicates things.

Gerry T · 17-01-2021 5:58pm

degsie wrote:

Generally you have to options: 1) Bridge your ISP's router so that it is in 'modem only' mode and set your 'base' mesh unit to router mode, or b) Set your 'base' mesh unit to access point mode and connect to one of the ISP's router's lan ports In either case turn off the ISP's router wifi.

Thks, I was trying to bridge the virgin router but it doesn't seem to have the option Ill check AP mode on the Q2 when home

Wifi mesh systems

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