Female teachers having affairs with students

CDfm · 07-01-2011 11:09pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

They see child support as the child's entitlement not the mothers, so they dont take it out on the child.

However, as minors I cant see how they can pay child support. Are their parents forced to cough up?

I don't know but presumably if a woman abuses a child and subsequently is convicted their source of employment income is gone.

People like this are not really going to care about the victim.

Its incredulous that the US courts allow them to claim child support as it gives them control over their victim.

It also discourages victims coming forward and testifying.

metrovelvet · 07-01-2011 11:19pm

CDfm wrote: »

I don't know but presumably if a woman abuses a child and subsequently is convicted their source of employment income is gone.

People like this are not really going to care about the victim.

Its incredulous that the US courts allow them to claim child support as it gives them control over their victim.

It also discourages victims coming forward and testifying.

Ok.

It was a statuatory rape charge that you cited. That means anyone over 18 with anyone under 18.

Did you read the limited case notes available? The 'child' said the sex was mutually enjoyable. The court found he 'was not an innocent victim."

Statutory rape is judged differently, otherwise do you know how many seniors in my high school would have been charged for going out with minors?

If the state felt it was a rape/abuse case she would have been charged and imprisoned.

CDfm · 08-01-2011 12:01am

I think that in this situation the teacher was in an illegal relationship and the child was not capable of giving consent. Anyway, I would rather not speculate.

I could give a fifteen year old a few cans of cider or bottles of Wicked and they may enjoy them and feel all grown up but it would not be right.

I really dont want to get into specifics here but the concept of that type of relationship ,whatever gender the participants are, is wrong in my mind.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 12:05am

CDfm wrote: »

I think that in this situation the teacher was in an illegal relationship and the child was not capable of giving consent. Anyway, I would rather not speculate.

I could give a fifteen year old a few cans of cider or bottles of Wicked and they may enjoy them and feel all grown up but it would not be right.

I really dont want to get into specifics here but the concept of that type of relationship ,whatever gender the participants are, is wrong in my mind.

Where does it say she was a teacher?

I agree with you that it is wrong. But the state and the law would not see fit to punish the child by depriving it of child support which it is entitled to like any other child, regardless of the context in which s/he was conceived.

However,as a minor, I dont see how they can hold him accountable but then again a lot of minors are having kids and tbh I dont know if they have to pay child support or if their parents do.

Ickle Magoo · 08-01-2011 12:08am

Depriving the child?

Would you have rapists getting joint custody of the kids conceived by their crimes? Where do you draw the line?

The_Kew_Tour · 08-01-2011 12:11am

smileysurfer wrote: »

Why do you say ''Female Teachers''?? Male teachers can just as easily do the same thing and its just as disgusting

Know lad down in Kerry and he well known for it.

CDfm · 08-01-2011 12:17am

@metro I stumbled on the thread by accident and added the bit of legal or other real consequences for the "victim" or "junior partner".

I have an awful flu and have to concentrate on getting minded

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 12:25am

CDfm wrote: »

@metro I stumbled on the thread by accident and added the bit of legal or other real consequences for the "victim" or "junior partner".

I have an awful flu and have to concentrate on getting minded

I hope you feel better.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 12:31am

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Depriving the child? Would you have rapists getting joint custody of the kids conceived by their crimes? Where do you draw the line?

In the US the law would see it that way, unless he was a child rapist [obviously that is different].

You are a dad. You have rights. That's it. If you are a convicted rapist, once you serve your sentence, you can resume all your rights as a free citizen. The court will not deprive the child of a relationship with its father, even if it means supervised access.

I am editing this to add - that there is no uniformity on this. For example, if a woman for religious or ethical reaasons does not want to have an abortion, and the father has been convicted and proven guilty, a judge MIGHT remove his rights so that she does not need to seek his consent if she is giving the child up for adoption.

If you are a woman who conceived a child by a rapist, your only choice, assuming you keep the child, is to never tell him he is a father, no name on the birthcert and forego child support.

That is how American law sees it. The child's right.

You know what American lawyers tell mothers who think about not suing for child support? "You dont have the right to steal from your children."

Dudess · 08-01-2011 1:38am

If it's a genuinely loving relationship, well, that's just two people being human. But it should certainly be avoided to whatever extent possible because it's plain and simply an abuse of the teacher's position.

witnessmenow wrote: »

if it satisfies the half your age add 7 rule im not against it.

What? You honestly believe that "rule"?

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'm not sure many women have been sent to jail for this. Certainly none in Ireland (especially given that women cannot even legally commit statuary rape) and in the US there have been a relatively small number of cases, most resulting in suspended or short custodial sentences: http://www.lawfirms.com/female-teacher-sex-crime-offenders-and-scandals.html

The most notorious of these was that of Debra Lafave and became the subject of a parody by Southpark.

A female teacher seducing a young boy is obscene, but the idiotic backslapping from some males re what a "legend" he is (see most recent AH thread on same) countered by "****ing pervert" from same in relation to the inverse, hardly helps that particular cause.

The Corinthian · 08-01-2011 1:57am

metrovelvet wrote: »

What do her looks have to do with it?

It brings home the attitude that LittleBook highlighted earlier whereby many don't see the problem with female abuse of minors. Instinctively seeing her, I go "wow, fancy a bit of that" and emotively it lessens the abhorrence to the actual crime for a moment.

I think, as a man, I can now better understand why this double standard occurs and how ultimately it requires rational objectivity to avoid, because ultimately it is an appalling crime regardless of whom commits it.

SarahBeep! · 08-01-2011 3:37am

DublinWriter wrote: »

Age of consent in 17 in this country

I think that's ridiculous. If someone wants to do something, they'll do it regardless.

minidazzler · 08-01-2011 5:15am

Emme wrote: »

Teacher/student relationships are unprofessional and irresponsible on the part of the older party who is abusing his or her authority.

I agree about it being unprofessional, probably usually even irresponsible, but morally, looking at general ages of a 16/17/18 year old with a teacher of 22/23/24, I fail to see a problem in morals. It's only abusing their authority if they use their authority to their advantage in sexual conduct IMO. Simply being a teacher does not mean a student has to do it, and if sex education is done correctly, students will know this by the time they are of age.

However, someone younger than 15, I would see a moral dilemma, but that's more because it's where I see the line rather than where the rest of the world see it.

hondasam · 08-01-2011 10:27am

It would be unethical for a start and would definitely compromise the teacher/student relationship. The teacher is the adult and should have more life experience to know how young teenage minds work.

If a student is involved with a teacher then that teacher cannot be impartial and this will lead to even bigger issues.

My own personal opinion is any teacher who gets involved with a student in secondary school should be dismissed.

CDfm · 08-01-2011 11:07am

If there is an illicit romantic relationship -it would be fairly imposible for a teacher to do their job properly and impartially. In the same way that it would be if someone had an intimate relationship with their boss at work.

Anyway, there are differences is the power dynamic in the relationship and I can see how it could be less consensual then a teacher might assume or try to convince themselves. And , like it or not, the potential for messiness on a break-up is huge in the same way intimate work relationships are.

In my mind , the words integrity and mistress keep popping up.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 11:17am

CDfm wrote: »

If there is an illicit romantic relationship -it would be fairly imposible for a teacher to do their job properly and impartially. In the same way that it would be if someone had an intimate relationship with their boss at work.

Anyway, there are differences is the power dynamic in the relationship and I can see how it could be less consensual then a teacher might assume or try to convince themselves. And , like it or not, the potential for messiness on a break-up is huge in the same way intimate work relationships are.

In my mind , the words integrity and mistress keep popping up.

ALso because the adult [as opposed to a minor] is a teacher and in a position of authority it adds to a case of implicit coercion or adds more doubt to the consent of the minor in his or her capacity to give consent or deny consent. The question of consent would be a lot fuzzier in a case where there was no overt difference in authority, such as the 18 year old seniors in my high school who dated 13 and 14 year old freshman girls.

How many men have I heard say 'what 14 year old boy wouldnt love that?"

CDfm · 08-01-2011 1:24pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

How many men have I heard say 'what 14 year old boy wouldnt love that?"

How many ?

14 year old boys usually like 14 year old girls.

daithi2011 · 08-01-2011 1:39pm

Ksusha26 wrote: »

In my hometown university it was common knowledge that male professors were sleeping with female students in order for the students to get higher grades. The professors were usually in their 50s while the students would be 19-21 age group. It's wrong and an abuse of authority but it still happened.

Ive heard this one about every teacher, lecturer i've ever had. I put it down to idle made up gossip. One girl I know started spreading those rumors about a lecturer and her best friend told me that she was in bits one night and laid it all out to her in tears. The real story was that when she made advances to the lecturer but was rejected. Spread the stories for revenge.

The Corinthian · 08-01-2011 1:42pm

CDfm wrote: »

14 year old boys usually like 14 year old girls.

Legally they're safer going for 40 year old women - 14 year old boys can be charged with statutory rape of a 14 year old girl, once they become adults. Ironically, while the 40 year old woman can be charged with molestation of a minor, she cannot similarly be charged with statutory rape of the 14 year old boy.

You gotta love Irish law.

CDfm · 08-01-2011 1:48pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

You gotta love Irish law.

All things being equal does not always work as a 14 year old boy cannot get pregnant apart from that the law on women and minors is a bit daft .

The Corinthian · 08-01-2011 2:15pm

CDfm wrote: »

All things being equal does not always work as a 14 year old boy cannot get pregnant apart from that the law on women and minors is a bit daft .

The pregnancy argument may have made sense a century ago, it certainly does not now.

CDfm · 08-01-2011 2:52pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

The pregnancy argument may have made sense a century ago, it certainly does not now.

Maybe, I may be biased as the dad of a teenage girl now turned 17.

liah · 08-01-2011 3:07pm

I think what bothers me about teacher-student relationships is the fact that a teacher could find a teen student attractive knowing full well their brains aren't fully matured. I mean, yeah, some kids are more mature than others but a teenager is a teenager, they're still naive to some degree and if they're not it's probably for a not so nice reason. Either way, what on earth draws these teachers to them?

I could understand a purely physical attraction to some degree, some later teens are very much grown up in terms of their bodies. But I just don't get why an adult would be attracted to a teen's brain, knowing that they're not fully mature regardless of how they act would be enough to make one ignore any kind of sexual desire.

I dunno. I find it really creepy when people are attracted to that kind of naivete. Maybe I shouldn't've read Lolita :pac:

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 3:55pm

liah wrote: »

I think what bothers me about teacher-student relationships is the fact that a teacher could find a teen student attractive knowing full well their brains aren't fully matured. I mean, yeah, some kids are more mature than others but a teenager is a teenager, they're still naive to some degree and if they're not it's probably for a not so nice reason. Either way, what on earth draws these teachers to them?

I could understand a purely physical attraction to some degree, some later teens are very much grown up in terms of their bodies. But I just don't get why an adult would be attracted to a teen's brain, knowing that they're not fully mature regardless of how they act would be enough to make one ignore any kind of sexual desire.

I dunno. I find it really creepy when people are attracted to that kind of naivete. Maybe I shouldn't've read Lolita :pac:

Lol. I dont think its their brains they are attracted to. They are attracted to both their physique and their naivety, from what I would imagine. THey might also be attracted or seduced by the attention and pursuit that students can provide, although this pursuit is often borne in naive motivations and assumptions, mainly that the teacher will not respond.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 3:59pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Legally they're safer going for 40 year old women - 14 year old boys can be charged with statutory rape of a 14 year old girl, once they become adults. Ironically, while the 40 year old woman can be charged with molestation of a minor, she cannot similarly be charged with statutory rape of the 14 year old boy.

You gotta love Irish law.

You are mixing up your language quite dangerously here.

Statutory rape, a term which is not even that much in use anymore, is different from molestation. Statutory rape, or sexual assuault of a minor applies to an adult having sexual relations with a minor. It is not the same as FORCED rape, or rape 1, 2nd or third degree. It is there for the judges to be able to apply charges in cases where there is coercian and consent can be questioned, which is not always in place where you have an adult and a minor [or person under the age of consent.]

Molestation and child sex abuse refers to sexual assualt against a minor who has not reached puberty yet.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 4:07pm

daithi2011 wrote: »

Ive heard this one about every teacher, lecturer i've ever had. I put it down to idle made up gossip. One girl I know started spreading those rumors about a lecturer and her best friend told me that she was in bits one night and laid it all out to her in tears. The real story was that when she made advances to the lecturer but was rejected. Spread the stories for revenge.

Oleanna?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleanna_(play)

liah · 08-01-2011 4:28pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Lol. I dont think its their brains they are attracted to. They are attracted to both their physique and their naivety, from what I would imagine. THey might also be attracted or seduced by the attention and pursuit that students can provide, although this pursuit is often borne in naive motivations and assumptions, mainly that the teacher will not respond.

Well, that's what I mean-- why would someone be attracted to that kind of naivete? It's creepy, imho. What is the appeal in it?

The Corinthian · 08-01-2011 4:53pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Statutory rape, a term which is not even that much in use anymore, is different from molestation. Statutory rape, or sexual assuault of a minor applies to an adult having sexual relations with a minor. It is not the same as FORCED rape, or rape 1, 2nd or third degree. It is there for the judges to be able to apply charges in cases where there is coercian and consent can be questioned, which is not always in place where you have an adult and a minor [or person under the age of consent.]

Molestation and child sex abuse refers to sexual assault against a minor who has not reached puberty yet.

Actually I think you'll find I differentiated between rape and molestation in my earlier post.

Rape, of a minor or otherwise, refers to sexual or anal intercourse under Irish law. Sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault are separate charges, better known as molestation, and are defined by other sexual acts (e.g. oral sex).

My understanding, as per the Rape Act 1981, is that because men are the active party in intercourse, they are deemed responsible for the act, while women are not - thus meaning that while a woman may be held accountable for (aggravated) sexual assault, she cannot for rape.

The Sexual Offences Act 2006, also specifically states that a female child under the age of 17 is not guilty of any offense under the act. No such provision is made for male children under the age of 17 and they are thus liable.

I've never understood the logic behind this last bit; a 14-year old boy is considered criminally culpable of an act that he is not considered legally capable of consenting to.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 5:13pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually I think you'll find I differentiated between rape and molestation in my earlier post.

Rape, of a minor or otherwise, refers to sexual or anal intercourse under Irish law. Sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault are separate charges, better known as molestation, and are defined by other sexual acts (e.g. oral sex).

My understanding, as per the Rape Act 1981, is that because men are the active party in intercourse, they are deemed responsible for the act, while women are not - thus meaning that while a woman may be held accountable for (aggravated) sexual assault, she cannot for rape.

The Sexual Offences Act 2006, also specifically states that a female child under the age of 17 is not guilty of any offense under the act. No such provision is made for male children under the age of 17 and they are thus liable.

I've never understood the logic behind this last bit; a 14-year old boy is considered criminally culpable of an act that he is not considered legally capable of consenting to.

My point is there is a vast difference between statutory rape, rape, and molestation.

There is an underlying hipocracy in how the law sees minors, they can get tried but they cant sit on juries, so the law is quite double binding on where it stands on a minor's mental capacity.

It is not until recently that Irish women could sit on juries, probably for the same reasoning that children cant, mental capacity and all that jazz, and perhaps this loophole in Irish law around male and female minors is a victorian hangover, and god knows IRish law is awash with those.

metrovelvet · 08-01-2011 5:14pm

liah wrote: »

Well, that's what I mean-- why would someone be attracted to that kind of naivete? It's creepy, imho. What is the appeal in it?

I dunno. I dont know why some people find ageing hippies attractive. I think they are creepy but there you go.

Female teachers having affairs with students

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