Private busses clamp down on free passes?

Posted by Schemeingbohemia.:-

OT but how often do you get an Inspector on your bus?

It`s not Totally OT as I believe the entire issue of Visible Revenue Protection is intrinsic to the broader one of regard for the service provided.

Revenue Protection checks are quite difficult to forecast but I would suggest that College Term times play a major part in the issue.

Posted by Call the police :-

this was on rte 8 days ago: "A new card is to be introduced for users of the Free Travel Scheme. The card, which is expected to contain a photograph, signature and a chip with other information about the user is expected to be extended to other public services in the future", "the current system has much potential for abuse and that the new card should eliminate misuse".

All good news,but I`m very conscious of that word,"expected".

In that particular way we Irish have about dealing with stuff like this,the relevant Departments have stood by and wrung their collective hands for decades now with nothing except excuses and reasons for not addressing the problem to be heard.

The actual kick in the arse for the Republics administrators came as a direct result of the negotiations for the 32 County Free Travel extension proposal.

it may be recalled that when the late Seamus Brennan went live on this proposal he was speaking of a simple extension of the Republics Free Transport Scheme into Northern Ireland.

However both the Northern Ireland Office and Translink (The Operator) were somewhat more concerned with knowing their actual level of exposure to Free stuff and as a result were loath to accept the long standing notional system in use down south.

As a result only the Republics citizens over 66 may avail of the Northern Concession and then only after applying for a Translink Senior Smartpass,a totally seperate entity to the document which is issued in the Republic.

The Translink smartcard however is non compatible with the Republic`s Ticketing Equipment and as a result a Northern Irish Smartpass holder is expected to use their Smartcard as a "Flash Pass".

Most of them are however,well trained and continue to place their Smartcard on the ticket machine where it sits silent and useless.....This is the stuff of "Integrated Ticketing" if anybody was/is interested.

Another recent anomaly is the introduction of a 60 plus Smartpass by Translink which allows Free-=Travel to those between 60-64 in Northern Ireland Only.

http://www.translink.co.uk/Special-Offers/60-Plus-Smartpass1/

Recently I have noticed a significant number of those passes being flashed by their holders who then become somewhat irate when told its NOT valid on our services...again since the card is very similar to the Senior Smartpass,most drivers do not have the inclination or the time to inspect the card too closely.

For a good overview of just how far the Northern Ireland Authorities are ahead of us it`s worth reading through their guide....

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/senior_citizen_smartpass_userguide-2.pdf

Its also worth noting that the operative date is April 2003.....Its difficult to know exactly what our Senior Administrators were doing with their time and money here,but it remains self-evident that we have spent vast sums of money and appear to have little except a bag of Magic-Beans to show for it.

Take a leaf through their Terms and Conditions for yet another example of the regard they hold their own system in.....

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/travel-and-transport/public-transport/bus-and-coach-travel/free-bus-travel-and-concessions/60-senior-smartpass.htm

It`s far far removed from what masquerades as monitoring or controlling the Republics Free Travel scheme but in reality not surprising either.....It`s just the way we are...

Posted by Call The Police :-

But in all due respect looking north with envy for what ever reason is very much outdated.
I agree the majority of our state systems are playing catch up with the rest of Europe.

CTP,I`m not looking North with anything approaching envy,its more akin to complete and total disenchantment and resignation.

Whether its "outdated" to look at the Northern operation is immaterial,the fact remains that the Northern Public Transport Operation preferred to make far more efficient use of their older resources whilst allocating their spending into the areas which mattered in terms of forward planning and efficiency...ie: Ulsterbus keeping older but perfectly servicable vehicles in revenue operation to the benefit of the service levels,whilst we spent progressively more on total fleet replacement while persevering with outdated and creaking operational frameworks.

Right now our "State Systems" have caught up about as much as they are going to,largely due to successive Irish administrations having little or no appreciation of what full EU membership could have done for us.

Instead,for example in Public Transport terms we fixated upon buying loads of shiny new stuff of all disciplines,then simply putting the new toys to work on the old systems which,as with the Revenue Systems under discussion,are in a state of collapse.

All over Mainland Europe we have Publicly Owned Transport Systems operating to a high degree of efficiency for decades now complete with subcontracting,tendering and full modal integtation.

Instead our cuter and more astute Political masters saw far more to be gained from the oul "privatization" wheeze which was so successful in the UK.
As a result we had to languish in the bog whilst endless arguements ensued between the States remaining Transport entities and the brave-new-world of the Privates...all arguements which the mainland Europeans addressed and sorted out 40 years ago....:mad:

We`re still not any further along the road,with the Integrated Ticketing Project still awaiting the issue of it`s first useable product,even after €36 Million has been spent....mostly on "consultancy" fees it seems.

Oddly enough the recent events in UK Public Transport go to show just how well-planned and desirable Lady Thatchers public transport policies really were.

We now see European State-Owned entities such as Germany`s Deutche Bahn,France`s RATP and the Dutch State Rail operator NS now accounting for c. 40% of Londons Bus Operations following very significant expansion into the UK`s unique,highly regulated London Bus market.

To my mind, perhaps the only hope we can hold out for any real Public Service approach to improved Public Bus Services,is for Aviva,London United or Abellio to cast a European tinted glance over our native shipwreck of a Public Transport System.

Whilst I fervently hope we will see progress on this Public Service Card project I am also aware that the all encompassing nature of the Card and its support systems will certainly lead to legal challenges and other actions designed to frustrate it`s stated aims.

All I`m looking for,in Public Transport Terms,is something like our Northern Brethern hav had for many years now....systems which just work,complete with efficient modern back-office revenue streaming and administration...the sort of thing which we in the Republic still refer to as a "Major Challenge" in our Press Releases !

Envious glances aside,perhaps it`s time to start asking the questions as to what became of all the money...where did it go ????

Posted by Call The Police :-

Margaret Thatchers policies were not primarily in the bus users interests, the trade union movement was particularly strong at that time and also associated with the labour party....etc etc......

All agreed,and in the context of this topic,not an issue,I`m merely pointing out that 90 miles away a smaller Public Transport entity has,for some years now,operated a fully functional concessionary Public Transport scheme with all the bells and whistles now being touted as the stuff of marvel by our native governors.

I suppose my essential point is that our Upper Levels of Public Transport governance remain heavily burdened with proffessional Civil Service types who "Fell into it" as their careers blossomed.

In the UK and elsewhere both public and private elements tend to have an equally high number of folks who entered and remained in Public Transport as a career option because they had an actual interest in its fundamentals.

This little tale is worth a read....

http://leondaniels.blogspot.com/2010_06_01_archive.html

Reading the "Stars of Route 9" entry regarding the retirement of Monoleto Hutchinson what struck me was the ability of the Director of Surface Transport for London,Mr Peter Hendy to actually drive a bus and of his retiring Garage Manager to Conduct the same vehicle...!

I fully concur that such activites may not be any longer a requirement of a modern administrator but they do indicate a certain affinity with and knowledge of "The Sharp End" of the business which has,again in my own opinion,been disregarded in our Brave New (Public Transport) World .

Now back On Topic.....do we have an exact figure as yet for Free Travel Scheme "Beneficiaries" ?....I believe this is the most essential element of rescuing something from the entire mess !

Call the Police posted: -

Even in the current climate staff turnover in the multinational companies is high, for the obvious reasons ie working on minimum wage with shifts just within the working time act, have you noticed all of the various multinational companies that are London buses with large recruitment signs all over their buses, all with a free phone number offering immediate employment.
Driving a bus in London is now akin to asking customers, "Do you want fries with that".

How much subsidy is pumped into the Northern public transport company so as to achieve what you refer to ?

At the risk of staying on the wrong side of the OT line,I feel I must raise a hurrah for my colleagues in London.

Firstly London is a unique case study in UK terms as it remains the only part of the country which was not Thatcherized...or should that be Ridleyfied.

As a result it`s public transport remains a well defined succesful operation,albeit at a significant cost.

However I could not agree with the somewhat derogatory " Do you want fries" comment.
Whilst Bus Driving is not everybodys cup of tea,there are many who work away and earn a living from it without ever feeling that they are some form of lesser individual for so doing.

Quite possibly the single greatest causitive factor for high staff turn-over rates is the Shift Patterns which Busdrivers work.
There is also the often overlooked problems with Public Order in some UK urban areas which tend to manifest themselves on the Bus service with all to familiar results.
This factor is industry wide and as CTP points out does account for high staff turn-over rates in some locations.

Quantifying London Busdriving wages is difficult given the different operators and their individual HR policies but to take East London Buses as an example the figures are quite complex but in no sense are they minimum-wage rates....

http://www.planetrecruit.com/show_job.cgi?j=6466134&wt.mc_id=aggregator_trovit

Their figures show a Starting rate while training of €464 PW.
Rising in some locations to €685 PW after 6 years service.

Call the Police also posted :-

How much subsidy is pumped into the Northern public transport company so as to achieve what you refer to ?

I would consider the total subsidy level to Translink to be irrelevant to the topic at hand,namely the manner in which Irish State and it`s Public Transport Providers manage their Free Transport Scheme.

Translink and Ulsterbus/Citybus before it have run a well organized and rhighly regarded Public Transport service for decades now,often under circumstances which were,to say the least,"challenging"...But...That is not the issue to hand,which is all about "Ourselves"

call the police wrote: »

before privatisation London Buses was once a place of employment with a career path.

You do realise that a bus companies two aims are a) to serve their passengers transport needs and b) make a profit for their shareholders?

i'm going to buy a free travel pass, anyone know where i can get one, ?
what characteristic should i adopt when i show it to the bus driver

Well CtP,going on the Prime Time Investigates "How to" documentary,the best locations are Pubs in and around the Bridewell and Fruit Market area.

It appears that €100 is the going rate for a standard pass,although there may be "Special Offer" packages with a bundle of Drivers Licence/Free Travel Pass for €150.

If you contact the Prime Time Investigates production at RTE,Montrose,Donnybrook,Dublin 4 I`m sure they will forward your enquiry to the Customer Service of the enterprise concerned.

As for characteristic to be adopted...could`nt be simpler...just be in a permanent hurry,quick flash of the bit of card to the disinterested driver and your done.

It`s advisable if your a Dubliner,to get the oul Photo ID done,as it throws the REALLY proffessional Drivers off the scent.

And whatever you do,always be ready to Leg-It at a seconds notice....always have an escape route !


Mind you the above may all be superflouous in a fortnight as it appears that the DSP budget will be in for at least a 20% cut in the areas of "Additional Benefits" of which the "Free" Pass would be but one.

I would suggest that a 50c or €1 fare will be introduced for ALL DSP Free Travel Scheme mambers,as it will be cheaper than withdrawing and reissuing the actual document (Loose description :rolleyes: )