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A career in secondary school teaching?

  • 07-03-2019 9:16pm
    #1
    mark2912
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭


    I am currently in 6th year and wish to become a Business & Accounting teacher in a post primary school in the future.

    I currently do the LCA program and thus, must attend a PLC course after I finish school before I go onto a degree.

    I have 2 options after my PLC course, but am unsure of what to do:
    1. The only concurrent teacher education degree in Business & Accounting is in MIC Thurles. I am from Dublin, I wouldn't fancy moving down the country for 4 years and if I was to stay in Dublin, transport every day would be costly.

    2. Another option is to go the consecutive route, which would mean going on to do a degree in Business & Accounting which is Teaching Council recognised, and then onto a 2 year PME.

    I really don't know what way I should go, I'm hoping to appeal for advice from anybody who has experienced something similar.

    Many thanks


Comments

  • #2
    thegreatescape
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭thegreatescape


    I had to move 3 hours away to do my degree as it's the only place in the country which offers it. If I had the option of that or doing a 4 year degree and 2 year PME after that I would still choose the 4 year degree even if it involved moving.


  • #3
    mark2912
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mark2912


    thegreatescape wrote: »
    I had to move 3 hours away to do my degree as it's the only place in the country which offers it. If I had the option of that or doing a 4 year degree and 2 year PME after that I would still choose the 4 year degree even if it involved moving.

    I'd have a few concerns about moving down:
    1. Accommodation: I'd rather rent somewhere off campus as halls of residence is quite expensive.
    2. Financially supporting myself down there (I'm not eligible for a grant and you aren't guaranteed a part time job)
    3. Leaving friends & family behind


  • #4
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    mark2912 wrote: »
    I'd have a few concerns about moving down:
    1. Accommodation: I'd rather rent somewhere off campus as halls of residence is quite expensive.
    2. Financially supporting myself down there (I'm not eligible for a grant and you aren't guaranteed a part time job)
    3. Leaving friends & family behind

    A big part of the college experience is moving out of the nest and learning to take care of yourself. I've always thought that people who lived at home during college were missing out on the real education.
    It's daunting because it's a big step. It's survivable though, and it's terrific fun once you get going.


  • #5
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    mark2912 wrote: »
    I'd have a few concerns about moving down:
    1. Accommodation: I'd rather rent somewhere off campus as halls of residence is quite expensive.
    2. Financially supporting myself down there (I'm not eligible for a grant and you aren't guaranteed a part time job)
    3. Leaving friends & family behind

    1. Rent in a provincial town is competitively low to Dublin
    2. Many students end up in this same boat. Work and save in the summer/holidays and take whatever you can get if in Thurles.
    3. School friends are that. You'll find fairly quickly people start to find new friendships when they leave.


  • #6
    Sarah3
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Sarah3


    Why did you decide to do the LCA?


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  • #7
    mark2912
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mark2912


    Sarah3 wrote: »
    Why did you decide to do the LCA?

    Stupidly, my school has a rule if you don't want to do TY you must go into LCA instead of traditional 5th year :mad:

    I would've loved to do the traditional, but I just want to get out of school as quickly as possible and move on to college.

    BTW thanks everybody for the helpful advice. :)


  • #8
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    mark2912 wrote: »
    Stupidly, my school has a rule if you don't want to do TY you must go into LCA instead of traditional 5th year :mad:

    I would've loved to do the traditional, but I just want to get out of school as quickly as possible and move on to college.

    BTW thanks everybody for the helpful advice. :)

    They may have done you a favour!

    The 3rd level colleges reserve a certain number of places for students coming from alternative pathways, so progress to your desired course may in fact be easier than following the traditional route of a 3 year leaving cert your school insists on.


  • #9
    afkasurfjunkie
    Registered Users Posts: 771 ✭✭✭afkasurfjunkie


    mark2912 wrote: »

    I would've loved to do the traditional, but I just want to get out of school as quickly as possible and move on to college

    You want to get out of school as fast as possible to do a course to put you back in school again?


  • #10
    mark2912
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mark2912


    afkasurfjunkie wrote: »
    mark2912 wrote: »

    I would've loved to do the traditional, but I just want to get out of school as quickly as possible and move on to college

    You want to get out of school as fast as possible to do a course to put you back in school again?

    I meant as a student :lol:


  • #11
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,103 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Business teachers are very plentiful. Make sure you know what you are getting into.


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  • #12
    Terri26
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭Terri26


    What is it about school that made you want to leave it as quickly as possible?
    Life as a teacher is a bit similar to life.as a student. We still have a lot of rules and control over us. We can't go to the toliet whenever we want, still have 'homework' etc.
    I also find it weird that your school let you into an LCA class when they are normally kept small to facilitate a different type of learning.


  • #13
    joebloggs32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭joebloggs32


    Terri26 wrote: »
    What is it about school that made you want to leave it as quickly as possible?
    Life as a teacher is a bit similar to life.as a student. We still have a lot of rules and control over us. We can't go to the toliet whenever we want, still have 'homework' etc.
    I also find it weird that your school let you into an LCA class when they are normally kept small to facilitate a different type of learning.

    Some schools use a compulsory transition year to effectively create a 3 year leaving cert.
    There are two reasons for this.
    Firstly you boost the numbers on your roll. May help with securing a second or third deputy.
    Secondly, results in theory for leaving certs should be better, thus making the school appear more attractive and therefore boosting your enrolment.
    The OP stated he didn't want to spend another year as a secondary student and so was force into LCA as a result.


  • #14
    mark2912
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mark2912


    afkasurfjunkie wrote: »
    You want to get out of school as fast as possible to do a course to put you back in school again?
    Terri26 wrote: »
    What is it about school that made you want to leave it as quickly as possible?
    Life as a teacher is a bit similar to life.as a student. We still have a lot of rules and control over us. We can't go to the toliet whenever we want, still have 'homework' etc.
    I also find it weird that your school let you into an LCA class when they are normally kept small to facilitate a different type of learning.

    Apologies, I don't think I worded it right :D

    What I meant was, although I love school, I'd like to get my leaving cert over and done with ASAP, and then move onto the next stage (college & becoming a teacher).


  • #15
    Terri26
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭Terri26


    joebloggs32 wrote:
    Some schools use a compulsory transition year to effectively create a 3 year leaving cert. There are two reasons for this. Firstly you boost the numbers on your roll. May help with securing a second or third deputy. Secondly, results in theory for leaving certs should be better, thus making the school appear more attractive and therefore boosting your enrolment. The OP stated he didn't want to spend another year as a secondary student and so was force into LCA as a result.

    I am aware a lot of schools have compulsory TY but most of them will allow the odd exception to move on. I have never heard of anyone being forced into an LCA class. The OP has quite a good command of the English language and that alone makes me think there would be other students would be more suitable for the LCA programme. The LCA classes are normally kept smaller to accommodate the different types of exams and teaching. There is no way anyone who doesn't want to do TY would be made do LCA instead. A lot of work/thought (should) goes into deciding what students to pick for the LCA group.


  • #16
    mark2912
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mark2912


    Terri26 wrote: »
    I am aware a lot of schools have compulsory TY but most of them will allow the odd exception to move on. I have never heard of anyone being forced into an LCA class. The OP has quite a good command of the English language and that alone makes me think there would be other students would be more suitable for the LCA programme. The LCA classes are normally kept smaller to accommodate the different types of exams and teaching. There is no way anyone who doesn't want to do TY would be made do LCA instead. A lot of work/thought (should) goes into deciding what students to pick for the LCA group.

    I totally agree in what you say, there was (and still is) quite an uproar from parents & students over this ridiculous rule.

    I even wanted to change schools after 3rd year over it, but all schools I applied to we're either full or also had a compulsory Transition Year :rolleyes:


  • #17
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,103 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    mark2912 wrote: »
    I totally agree in what you say, there was (and still is) quite an uproar from parents & students over this ridiculous rule.

    I even wanted to change schools after 3rd year over it, but all schools I applied to we're either full or also had a compulsory Transition Year :rolleyes:

    I wonder are the Department aware of this?
    I can't begin to count how many of their own policies and recommendations such a policy goes against.
    An inspection would sort that out, should one of the parents wish to call the Department and suggest one.


  • #18
    mark2912
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mark2912


    spurious wrote: »
    I wonder are the Department aware of this?
    I can't begin to count how many of their own policies and recommendations such a policy goes against.
    An inspection would sort that out, should one of the parents wish to call the Department and suggest one.

    Is this not usually allowed? For schools to force people who don't want to do TY into the LCA course? :confused: :eek:


  • #19
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    mark2912 wrote: »
    Is this not usually allowed? For schools to force people who don't want to do TY into the LCA course? :confused: :eek:

    NO, it's definitely not allowed. They denied you a right to sit the regular Leaving Cert, and while you might be happy in LCA, they cut off your ability to apply for third level without you going the route of PLC. Nothing wrong with PLC at all, but it can limit your options on what courses you can apply for.

    That, and plenty of students skip TY for a variety of reasons. Doesn't mean they should be forced into a programme they don't necessarily want to do. I'd echo the post that suggested a call to the Dept of Education is warranted.

    Also most schools don't have LCA. Only about 2500 students do LCA each year. My school offers TY, most students opt for it, but we have 10-15 each year who skip straight into fifth year, some because they don't like school and want to finish as soon as possible, some have no interest in what is offered in TY, and some because they just want to get on with the LC and go to college. We don't have LCA.


  • #20
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    mark2912 wrote: »
    Is this not usually allowed? For schools to force people who don't want to do TY into the LCA course? :confused: :eek:

    I would imagine it is presented as an option because they'd assume that nobody in their right mind would choose LCA as a quick route to college, almost guaranteeing that students would do TY.


  • #21
    mark2912
    Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭mark2912


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    NO, it's definitely not allowed. They denied you a right to sit the regular Leaving Cert, and while you might be happy in LCA, they cut off your ability to apply for third level without you going the route of PLC. Nothing wrong with PLC at all, but it can limit your options on what courses you can apply for.

    That, and plenty of students skip TY for a variety of reasons. Doesn't mean they should be forced into a programme they don't necessarily want to do. I'd echo the post that suggested a call to the Dept of Education is warranted.

    Also most schools don't have LCA. Only about 2500 students do LCA each year. My school offers TY, most students opt for it, but we have 10-15 each year who skip straight into fifth year, some because they don't like school and want to finish as soon as possible, some have no interest in what is offered in TY, and some because they just want to get on with the LC and go to college. We don't have LCA.

    This is exactly what the majority of parents and students are reiterating each year, I agree, it's ridiculous! :mad: I understand that the LCA>PLC>Degree route can limit your options and this is what had me panicking initially. But once I heard that all the level 8 courses that I'd like to do have PLC entry routes, I didn't really mind.

    Like you said, many students skip TY like I did, as I think it's a complete waste of a year as it doesn't contribute to your future after school like the LC does. I'm with you on the whole LCA thing, figures each year are small compared to the total students who sit the traditional LC. The LCA is usually only for those with learning difficulties, special needs etc. and thus students who don't want to waste a year in school shouldn't be forced to do it.

    I will definitely advising students and parents that the school shouldn't be allowed to do this and hopefully this will encourage them to campaign against the school's policy being changed.
    beveragelady wrote: »
    I would imagine it is presented as an option because they'd assume that nobody in their right mind would choose LCA as a quick route to college, almost guaranteeing that students would do TY.

    Nope, not an option. Students who do not want to go into TY after the JC must do the LCA programme. Although students who complete TY are most definitely given the option of the traditional, the traditional with LCVP or LCA. Why this doesn't apply to students who skip TY I don't know, but it definitely should be.


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  • #22
    beveragelady
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭beveragelady


    mark2912 wrote: »
    Nope, not an option. Students who do not want to go into TY after the JC must do the LCA programme. Although students who complete TY are most definitely given the option of the traditional, the traditional with LCVP or LCA. Why this doesn't apply to students who skip TY I don't know, but it definitely should be.

    I was referring to the option of doing LCA instead of TY and LC.


  • #23
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Schools are allowed to make TY compulsory too though no!
    I know one school where if you don't do TY then you just leave and find another one. They have a great TY program though in fairness.... and of course there's the schools who start the leaving cert in 4th year.


  • #24
    Mardy Bum
    Registered Users Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    Schools are allowed to make TY compulsory too though no!
    I know one school where if you don't do TY then you just leave and find another one. They have a great TY program though in fairness.... and of course there's the schools who start the leaving cert in 4th year.

    With the new JC, I would advise most schools to start the LC in 4th year in whatever way they can. Business, science, MFL and English being the most important areas to work on.


  • #25
    Sarah3
    Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Sarah3


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    With the new JC, I would advise most schools to start the LC in 4th year in whatever way they can. Business, science, MFL and English being the most important areas to work on.

    Why is that?


  • #26
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Sarah3 wrote: »
    Why is that?

    Because the new junior cycle courses have been dumbed down, but the current leaving cert is still the same. There's a massive gap between them


  • #27
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,631 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    My advice is not to go into teaching. Standards have dropped. Discipline is poor in a lot of schools. Box ticking is the new mantra.
    Salary is **** and so now is your pension. For new entrants

    Promotion prospects are poor.
    Non existent really.

    Go into industry. Make some money.
    Don't say I didn't warn you .


  • #28
    FFred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭FFred


    mark2912 wrote: »
    Stupidly, my school has a rule if you don't want to do TY you must go into LCA instead of traditional 5th year :mad:

    If that rule exists then it is outrageous. You are being forced into a substandard senior cycle education because you do not want to do transition year. Wow.

    I’ll lay my cards on the table here . I am a PP teacher for the last twenty years and stick by my assertion that LCA <LC.

    Furthermore, the level of written English in your posts suggests that you are at a level superior to the average LCA student. Again, it is outrageous.


  • #29
    FFred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭FFred


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    Because the new junior cycle courses have been dumbed down, but the current leaving cert is still the same. There's a massive gap between them

    Not for long. Senior cycle review (dumbing down) is on the way...


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