ASTI ballot

deiseindublin · 15-10-2018 4:32pm

Yes, we're voting on Pension levy also.

If we accept this, it will actually be teachers themselves agreeing to 2-tier pay going forward and permanent pension levy going forward.

dory · 15-10-2018 5:16pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

Yes, we're voting on Pension levy also.

If we accept this, it will actually be teachers themselves agreeing to 2-tier pay going forward and permanent pension levy going forward.

But is there not something somewhere that pay equality will happen by 2021/2022 either way? I'm only asking as I'm being asked in work so would like to know all the facts.

solerina · 15-10-2018 5:33pm

Very clever really, increase the LPTs pay while taking away more than enough to cover it via the pension levy.
It also puts LPTs against longer serving teachers....vote to improve LPTs pay while at the same time voting to a permanent loss of a considerable amount of money via the pension levy through which all of us lose !!

Sir123 · 15-10-2018 7:09pm

dory wrote: »

But is there not something somewhere that pay equality will happen by 2021/2022 either way? I'm only asking as I'm being asked in work so would like to know all the facts.

Nope, not to my knowledge and it never will if this "deal" passes.

Pension Levy & Croke Park hours also here to stay until 2021. Yet again, the government know we are push overs and both pension levy and Croke Park hours will be here to stay indefinitely unless we make some noise. Make sure you inform your staff of this.

deiseindublin · 15-10-2018 7:33pm

The starting at point 3 isn't coming back, neither is HDip/MA allowance so will never be parity if this is a YES.

dory · 15-10-2018 9:54pm

Thanks for feedback y'all. We'll discuss all this on Thursday. I'll be voting no anyway.

salonfire · 15-10-2018 10:23pm

It's interesting that the unions choose now as the time to demand pay equality and back pay.

Why did they not choose this course of action while Ajay Chopra and his IMF buddies were walking the streets of Dublin every three months?

Worried that rocking the boat too much could attract IMF-lead demands on further decreases in pay for teachers at that time? Where was the calls (and action) for equality then?

And now, with the inferior pensions new entrants have (where they will probably pay in more than they will receive), why is this not mentioned in the latest demands? Makes the shout for equality ring very hollow.

Regarding the pension levy, what shouldn't it become permanent? Ireland will undergo a dramatic shift in demographics in the coming years. This will be costing extra. So the pension levy is a contribution to that extra cost. I hope there is no implication on behalf of teachers is that someone else carry the additional cost?

It's no one's fault per say, but everyone is going to be paying extra.

evolving_doors · 16-10-2018 12:12am

Honestly Salonfire, if you think it's "it's interesting that the unions choose now as the time to demand pay equality and back pay." Then you need to find a new interest.

Cut the flamebaiting or you're out.

Poster warned under charter: Keep it Civil (para. 2) and Get your facts right

Mod

evolving_doors · 16-10-2018 6:17pm

Thread open again. Any attempts to derail thread will result in ban. E.g. public vs. Private sector, starting salary figures based on permanent full time posts etc.

Mod

wirelessdude01 · 16-10-2018 6:25pm

Will the INMO rejection have any impact of us in the education sector? Maybe make us a little more brave perhaps?

Sir123 · 16-10-2018 7:32pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Will the INMO rejection have any impact of us in the education sector? Maybe make us a little more brave perhaps?

I sure hope so. If Education and Health sectors have both rejected, then surely they have to go back to the drawing board regarding pay equality and provide a quicker mechanism to achieve that.

The lack of commitment from government is shocking. I know pay equality won't happen over night, per say, however a commitment from government is needed and we have never actually received that at all.

If they told us that a 1) the common basic scale and 2) allowances, would be restored over a two year period, I could live with that, and I think other LPTs could too.

However as we have seen, a Fine Gael majority government would never and have never given us their word. 8 years later and we're still fighting for pay equality.... cringe.......

evolving_doors · 16-10-2018 10:31pm

Sir123 wrote: »

I sure hope so. If Education and Health sectors have both rejected, then surely they have to go back to the drawing board regarding pay equality and provide a quicker mechanism to achieve that.

The lack of commitment from government is shocking. I know pay equality won't happen over night, per say, however a commitment from government is needed and we have never actually received that at all.

If they told us that a 1) the common basic scale and 2) allowances, would be restored over a two year period, I could live with that, and I think other LPTs could too.

However as we have seen, a Fine Gael majority government would never and have never given us their word. 8 years later and we're still fighting for pay equality.... cringe.......

I think the govt. has zero qualms about kicking to touch. And as per usual they'd be looking for concessions with lamb dressed as mutton.
Start work at 8 finish at 5, always be on call on the premises, new Leaving Cycle, June/August erosion.

Just scrap the whole pay equality dance and look for a new common payscale alltogether.

deiseindublin · 19-10-2018 11:48pm

Any feedback on schools that have voted already? We voted during the week and I'd say it was 95% NO. Only 2 or 3 I could be pretty sure voted YES but I don't think they even read the ballots, just nod along to any meagre offering.

Icsics · 20-10-2018 9:15am

Ironically I think the LPTs will vote for this, with a 'sure it's better than nothing' attitude. I'm a NO but see it as a further deterioration in our conditions. TUI & INTO due end of week

Millem · 20-10-2018 11:32am

Icsics wrote: »

Ironically I think the LPTs will vote for this, with a 'sure it's better than nothing' attitude. I'm a NO but see it as a further deterioration in our conditions. TUI & INTO due end of week

I am TUI and voted no....found out after the teachers in my school on the new payscale voted YES!! They all sit together and basically said to me they wanted increase in wages now. In my school the teachers on the old pay scale all seemed to vote no.

deiseindublin · 20-10-2018 1:05pm

Icsics wrote: »

Ironically I think the LPTs will vote for this, with a 'sure it's better than nothing' attitude. I'm a NO but see it as a further deterioration in our conditions. TUI & INTO due end of week

Tbh, I wish everyone would vote with their conscience and ignore what others are doing.

I'm not saying it's here but I suspect a few people I know are saying "ah shur, the LPTs will take this anyway after all our fighting for them" to absolve themselves of any guilt while voting YES.

I voted NO to stop the eternal decimation of my career, any maybe my childrens career. It's getting to the stage, similar to US, where teaching does not give a wage that can be depended on without a second job for every teacher.

Sir123 · 21-10-2018 2:02pm

I hope it's a NO. It looks like ASTI will be waiting until after the midterm to ballot members.
How the TUI and INTO vote will have an influence at the end of the day on ASTI.

Social media highlighting a majority of LPTs voting NO out of a current survey of approximately 1000 people. I hope this is translated overwhelmingly to a rejection this week for TUI and INTO.

I don't think we will be repudiating anything as ASTI if we vote NO to this. I know some people were worried about this but we have been complying with Croke Park Hours etc, and strikes have been halted over a year now. Just because we haven't signed up to PSSA doesn't mean we have/will repudiate the agreement. If we strike or withdraw from Croke Park Hours then yes that would be a different story.

I will definitely be voting NO and I will be waiting anxiously for TUI and INTO to do us proud next week.

acequion · 21-10-2018 7:16pm

Didn't know about the survey but it's good to hear. And good to hear about teachers in the first two unions out,voting No.

Hard to call it though. I've gotten in touch with loads of friends /contacts in INTO. And what I'm hearing is that older teachers are going with No,LPTs are going with Yes.Any one on here INTO who can fill us in?

Some of those LPTs would badly want to wake up and look long term and also ask themselves what they're doing in a trade union!

But there's no doubt that the TUI and INTO result will really influence ASTI voters.

So fingers tightly crossed!

r93kaey5p2izun · 22-10-2018 1:52am

I've been hearing the complete opposite from INTO members. That the Glór group of LPTs has been leading a strong No campaign with all the wear yellow LPT equality days. But that the union itself is selling a Yes. At a TUI meeting we were told that INTO want a Yes and that the deal is a better proposal for primary teachers because they only ever started on point 2 of the scale instead of point 3 and they didn't have a Hdip allowance. We were told it will be "only" a difference of €60 per pay cheque for them so their leaders see it as a good deal!

coillsaille · 22-10-2018 8:08am

Sir123 wrote: »

I don't think we will be repudiating anything as ASTI if we vote NO to this. I know some people were worried about this but we have been complying with Croke Park Hours etc, and strikes have been halted over a year now. Just because we haven't signed up to PSSA doesn't mean we have/will repudiate the agreement. If we strike or withdraw from Croke Park Hours then yes that would be a different story..

Just wondering, If we (ASTI) vote yes (hopefully not) does that mean we are signing up to the PSSA?

acequion · 22-10-2018 12:47pm

coillsaille wrote: »

Just wondering, If we (ASTI) vote yes (hopefully not) does that mean we are signing up to the PSSA?

Yes it does.

SligoBrewer · 23-10-2018 11:33am

Lola Loose Blowgun wrote: »

I've been hearing the complete opposite from INTO members. That the Glór group of LPTs has been leading a strong No campaign with all the wear yellow LPT equality days. But that the union itself is selling a Yes. At a TUI meeting we were told that INTO want a Yes and that the deal is a better proposal for primary teachers because they only ever started on point 2 of the scale instead of point 3 and they didn't have a Hdip allowance. We were told it will be "only" a difference of €60 per pay cheque for them so their leaders see it as a good deal!

The INTO's literature and public stance is very one-sided for a union that's meant to be not recommending a vote alright.

deiseindublin · 23-10-2018 12:15pm

What are the 3 closing date for receipt of ballots?

TUI - Thurs, 25 October
ASTI? Do we know?
INTO - Friday, 26th?

Icsics · 23-10-2018 12:26pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

What are the 3 closing date for receipt of ballots?

TUI - Thurs, 25 October
ASTI? Do we know?
INTO - Friday, 26th?

No ballots from ASTI yet, will be well after mid term before we get a result

deiseindublin · 23-10-2018 12:46pm

Don't blame them for sitting on the fence and seeing what other unions do after being let down last time.

All of the execs should be recommending a NO though, it's just lazy and defeatist to not give a recommendation.

scooby77 · 23-10-2018 8:41pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

Don't blame them for sitting on the fence and seeing what other unions do after being let down last time.

All of the execs should be recommending a NO though, it's just lazy and defeatist to not give a recommendation.

INTO CEC aren't allowed give recommendation either way following 2016 Congress motion.

deiseindublin · 23-10-2018 9:10pm

That's madness. You'd expected an elected rep or group of reps to be able to argue for one result or another.

SligoBrewer · 24-10-2018 2:20pm

scooby77 wrote: »

INTO CEC aren't allowed give recommendation either way following 2016 Congress motion.

No doubting you but is it not that they can't recommend any deal that does not contain full pay equality.

wirelessdude01 · 24-10-2018 4:51pm

SligoBrewer wrote:

No doubting you but is it not that they can't recommend any deal that does not contain full pay equality.

Cannot recommend it unless it is full upward pay equalisation. Cannot remember the exact motion text but something along those lines.

Really reading between the lines and the INTO CEC as a whole want this accepted.

Sir123 · 25-10-2018 5:05pm

ASTI have just released their Nuacht regarding the ballot. Neither here nor there but it ain't equal pay so it's gotta be a NO folks. Anywho, I hope TUI and INTO reject in the next few days.

https://www.asti.ie/news/latest-news/news-article/article/nuacht-no-2/

ASTI ballot

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