The Middle Distance Thread

pconn062 · 07-03-2014 12:26am

Just trying to get back after a bit of a hamstring injury, only missed about 8 days in total and slowly trying to get back into it now (although the issue is not yet fully resolved so no sessions for a few weeks, still not sure if I can jog yet! :eek:). Up until then I was going well, even if the mileage was a bit lower than I would have liked. Did a good few solid weeks of tempo work and then a few weeks of good 5k work, with a few 200's after each session for turnover work. The injury kind of threw my plan out of the window a bit but if I could get back to 5k work in the next 3-4 weeks I should be able to save my season. I'm hoping to peak a bit earlier this year, maybe mid-July or so and have all my racing done by the end of July as I'm going to Germany for a few weeks in August and won't be doing any racing.

oldrunner · 07-03-2014 10:19am

Training for the 1500 in the World Indoor Masters in Budapest at the end of March. First time trying this but bad year for it as I'm 54 in May. Just looking for experience this year as the World Outdoors are in Lyon next August a couple of months after I move up an age category.
Of course, sod's law - popped a hamstring last Tuesday in 3x2x600 session on the fifth 600. Only a mild strain and hope to be back jogging tomorrow or Sunday.

RayCun · 07-03-2014 10:49am

ecoli wrote: »

Usually the gradeds kick off a week or two after that (though no sign of the booklet yet this year)

Don't know the details, but the first meet is pencilled in for April 29th (Santry)

Sacksian · 07-03-2014 11:53am

Have kept checking back to this thread but not much to share as I'm just back from injury (hopefully) this week. Sometimes, it's hard to tell if you're recovered until you're running a few weeks but all of the signs are good - should be up to running 5 days a week this week and next. Still feels like I'm running out of time to be as fit as I was hoping to be for the start of the season. Last year, I missed from March until May with the same injury so at least the timing is slightly better this year. I've been roped into doing a half-marathon in Germany in May, which I'm telling myself will help me build a base and some strength ahead of the track season.

If I can stay fit, the first target is the ALSAA 3000m on 25th March - anything around 9:45 will be fine. Probably won't make the club teams for the Road Relays, so I'll hopefully do the ALSAA mile on April 15th and aim for 4:48 or so.

I've only run one but the standard doesn't seem to be incredibly high at the ALSAA races - it's a chance to do a track race out of season more than anything else (if anyone's looking for one!). I think if the numbers are large enough, they'll also put on a fast and slow race.

Can't wait for the Graded series to start. Thoughts on spikes from 800m +??

Last year, I was wearing cross-country shoes with track spikes. This year, I've got these: http://themiddlemiles.blogspot.ie/2013/04/gear-review-brooks-wire-2.html

They're much lighter so looking forward to seeing what impact the weight loss has.

ecoli · 07-03-2014 12:48pm

Sacksian wrote: »

If I can stay fit, the first target is the ALSAA 3000m on 25th March - anything around 9:45 will be fine. Probably won't make the club teams for the Road Relays, so I'll hopefully do the ALSAA mile on April 15th and aim for 4:48 or so.

I've only run one but the standard doesn't seem to be incredibly high at the ALSAA races - it's a chance to do a track race out of season more than anything else (if anyone's looking for one!). I think if the numbers are large enough, they'll also put on a fast and slow race.

Can't wait for the Graded series to start. Thoughts on spikes from 800m +??

Last year, I was wearing cross-country shoes with track spikes. This year, I've got these: http://themiddlemiles.blogspot.ie/2013/04/gear-review-brooks-wire-2.html

They're much lighter so looking forward to seeing what impact the weight loss has.

Forgot to check the ALSAA listings. Might not be a bad idea to throw that in as an early season baseline before I start sessions (bar a few 200s for turnover but other than that nothing much faster than 5k/10k pace in training

In terms of of spikes I use these for track races up to 3k

For the longer distances I generally wear flats (been so long since I have ran a 5k on track though that I can't remember if I wore spikes or flats)

I was looking at these for the longer distance on track though

pconn062 · 20-03-2014 1:51pm

Another bump! How is everyone getting on? The Dublin Graded Meets dates have been announced so it means it's getting close to track season! Are there similar events on other parts of the country?

How's the training going, have you started faster work yet? Myself, I'm just getting back from a hamstring injury, started back jogging two weeks ago and I did my first session last night, a few 600's and k's at 5k pace. Hoping to start two sessions a week from next week, a Vo2 max session and alternating a tempo/hill session. Not going to start faster race pace work for a few more weeks.

Stazza · 20-03-2014 3:03pm

pconn062 wrote: »

Another bump! How is everyone getting on? The Dublin Graded Meets dates have been announced so it means it's getting close to track season! Are there similar events on other parts of the country?

How's the training going, have you started faster work yet? Myself, I'm just getting back from a hamstring injury, started back jogging two weeks ago and I did my first session last night, a few 600's and k's at 5k pace. Hoping to start two sessions a week from next week, a Vo2 max session and alternating a tempo/hill session. Not going to start faster race pace work for a few more weeks.

Good to see that you're back on the mend.

After my cheeky little session of 20x300m and discovering that I might have a bit lot more speed than I first thought, I'm thinking about a completely different approach and my goals.

Might attack the 1500m up until the end of August and then see if I can carry the speed through into some Autumn/early winter 5ks before having a break in December.

And then next year, at the ripe old age of 50, I might have a crack at the World Pensioners' Champs in Lyon...:D

RuinedEye · 20-03-2014 3:59pm

pconn062 wrote: »

Another bump! How is everyone getting on? The Dublin Graded Meets dates have been announced so it means it's getting close to track season! Are there similar events on other parts of the country?

How's the training going, have you started faster work yet? Myself, I'm just getting back from a hamstring injury, started back jogging two weeks ago and I did my first session last night, a few 600's and k's at 5k pace. Hoping to start two sessions a week from next week, a Vo2 max session and alternating a tempo/hill session. Not going to start faster race pace work for a few more weeks.

All going well now, getting stuck into the base at the moment more long stuff 1km's-mile sessions with a few pyramid sessions put in.
There is a Leevale meet on the 5th April, very early but doing it to see where I am and what work needs to be done in the coming months.
Where would I find info on the Graded Meets?

pconn062 · 20-03-2014 4:10pm

RuinedEye wrote: »

All going well now, getting stuck into the base at the moment more long stuff 1km's-mile sessions with a few pyramid sessions put in.
There is a Leevale meet on the 5th April, very early but doing it to see where I am and what work needs to be done in the coming months.
Where would I find info on the Graded Meets?

Full programme for Graded Meets available here:

http://www.dublinathletics.com/2014-Fixtures/dublin-athletic-board-graded-track-field-programme-2014.html

Timmaay · 20-03-2014 11:32pm

Anyone interested in getting a table, or googledocs or something with a calender of as many track races in Ireland over the summer? Can be hard to keep tabs of what is on when, we have the likes of runireland for road races, but nothing really for the track!

Anyways, on pconns question, training largely stalled again ha, I was away skiing last week, and brought home a hoor of a chest infection, only just over that now. Anyways, once I'm back fully I'll be concentrating on the longer stuff for early in the season, I've one or two 3ks and 5ks targeted in mid April. I'll still be doing 1500m sessions however, and the aim is to race myself into shape in the early track season in May, I'll happily do as many track races as I can over that month, hopefully afew 800s by the end of the month. Then in June regroup again, give the legs and head abit of a break, before pushing on again during July. Should be plenty of IMCs, graded meets, and then of course Leinsters, nationals and the national league thrown in! Hmm I'll keep tabs on the actual number of races I do this summer, last two years I must have done 15 or so each summer.

Sacksian · 21-03-2014 10:41am

I'm in the liminal state between injured and uninjured; pretty sure I'm not injured but there's definitely not not something a little bit off. In the grand tradition of optimistic injury rehabilitation, I'm hoping to run it off. I wasn't able to run much in December, January and February, so I didn't, but now I seem to be able to. It's now no more than a niggle in my hip but I've lost a lot of fitness.

Started back training with a session of 600s (somewhere between mile and 3k pace) last week and some steady Khyber repeats (the full length) the weekend before last and probably more of the same this weekend. The 600s were good, the Khyber repeats were depressing. The targets I laid out at the start of this thread are looking a bit remote (certainly 5k and 3k anyway).

Here are the Irish Milers' Club dates from their website:

May Sat 10th - Greystones
May Sat 31st - Schools Tullamore
June Sat 14th - Crusaders, Irishtown
July Fri 11th - Morton Meet, Santry

They also say there will be one more race announced.

I had a look at the results and I'd almost definitely be towards the back of their slowest races. But it's a few extra races, if nothing else. Can anyone join??

Re: track calendar - you could put together a specific track race thread like the Road Race calendar in the Events forum on Boards?

pconn062 · 21-03-2014 5:35pm

I will try and throw a bit of a calender together over the weekend. It won't be a fancy google doc or anything like because I'm not very tech savvy but even a list of events that could be accessed easily would help.

Opinions on early season races, I'm hoping to have 1500m as my main event but was thinking of a few 800's or even 3,000's at the start of the season just to get back into it. Would this be a good idea or would it be better to get straight into 1500's to get familiar with the pacing and tactics?

dna_leri · 21-03-2014 9:22pm

pconn062 wrote: »

I will try and throw a bit of a calender together over the weekend. It won't be a fancy google doc or anything like because I'm not very tech savvy but even a list of events that could be accessed easily would help.

Opinions on early season races, I'm hoping to have 1500m as my main event but was thinking of a few 800's or even 3,000's at the start of the season just to get back into it. Would this be a good idea or would it be better to get straight into 1500's to get familiar with the pacing and tactics?

I'd say one over and one under distance but majority of races should be at target distance. If in doubt stick with target distance to gain pace and tactic experience.

KielyUnusual · 21-03-2014 9:37pm

This year is going to be the first one where I focus on the middle distance events. 1500 and the mile will be the target distances.

I've been on and off injured since the start of the year but ran in Ballycotton two weeks ago and have felt good ever since.

A typical week now would include a Tuesday track session (12 X 400, 6 X 800, 8 X 600 or similar), a Thursday tempo session on grass (3 X 10mins, pyramid session or the likes) and a Saturday Hill Session or Long Repeats. The hill session is 5 hilly mile repeats in Phoenix Park or the long repeat is 3 X 2.5k on a flat grassy surface. I also do some lunchtime runs (5 miles) and one long run (14-15 miles).

The coach will be introducing us to a specific 1500m program over the next few weeks so things will change up then. I'll post up information on it once I find out. The coach himself was a high level 1500m runner back in his day so would know his stuff.

One question here. Would any of you do a long run of 12 miles + as part of your training? I would like to keep this up as it fits well in to my weekly schedule and is a big time saver as I have a long commute to work. At the moment I do it on Wednesday, which is in between the Tuesday track session and the Thursday session and I don't think it is ideal. Maybe the Monday might be better?

KielyUnusual · 21-03-2014 9:39pm

pconn062 wrote: »

I will try and throw a bit of a calender together over the weekend. It won't be a fancy google doc or anything like because I'm not very tech savvy but even a list of events that could be accessed easily would help.

Opinions on early season races, I'm hoping to have 1500m as my main event but was thinking of a few 800's or even 3,000's at the start of the season just to get back into it. Would this be a good idea or would it be better to get straight into 1500's to get familiar with the pacing and tactics?

I've no personal experience on this but the coach at the club (very good 1500m runner) is going to have us do a 3000 and an 800 at the start of the season to get in to it so at least one voice of experience would deem it worthwhile.

pconn062 · 21-03-2014 9:55pm

KielyUnusual wrote: »

This year is going to be the first one where I focus on the middle distance events. 1500 and the mile will be the target distances.

I've been on and off injured since the start of the year but ran in Ballycotton two weeks ago and have felt good ever since.

A typical week now would include a Tuesday track session (12 X 400, 6 X 800, 8 X 600 or similar), a Thursday tempo session on grass (3 X 10mins, pyramid session or the likes) and a Saturday Hill Session or Long Repeats. The hill session is 5 hilly mile repeats in Phoenix Park or the long repeat is 3 X 2.5k on a flat grassy surface. I also do some lunchtime runs (5 miles) and one long run (14-15 miles).

The coach will be introducing us to a specific 1500m program over the next few weeks so things will change up then. I'll post up information on it once I find out. The coach himself was a high level 1500m runner back in his day so would know his stuff.

One question here. Would any of you do a long run of 12 miles + as part of your training? I would like to keep this up as it fits well in to my weekly schedule and is a big time saver as I have a long commute to work. At the moment I do it on Wednesday, which is in between the Tuesday track session and the Thursday session and I don't think it is ideal. Maybe the Monday might be better?

I think a long run is still important for the 1500m/mile. The 1500m as an event is about 50% aerobic/50% anaerobic so it's really important to have a well developed aerobic system. 12 miles is probably loads though. Could you do the long run on a Sunday or is that your day off? In between the Tuesday and Thursday is less than ideal and even a Monday isn't great as you have three hard session in four days.

KielyUnusual · 21-03-2014 10:07pm

pconn062 wrote: »

I think a long run is still important for the 1500m/mile. The 1500m as an event is about 50% aerobic/50% anaerobic so it's really important to have a well developed aerobic system. 12 miles is probably loads though. Could you do the long run on a Sunday or is that your day off? In between the Tuesday and Thursday is less than ideal and even a Monday isn't great as you have three hard session in four days.

I know Sunday would be ideal but I really would like to fit the long run in as part of the commute home. It takes me as long to run home as it does to get the train so it is a huge time saver. Thursday is the easiest of the sessions so Wednesday probably does make the most sense. I'll see how things go for a while anyway and if it's affecting the sessions, I'll bite the bullet and switch it to the Sunday.

Stazza · 21-03-2014 10:42pm

KielyUnusual wrote: »

I know Sunday would be ideal but I really would like to fit the long run in as part of the commute home. It takes me as long to run home as it does to get the train so it is a huge time saver. Thursday is the easiest of the sessions so Wednesday probably does make the most sense. I'll see how things go for a while anyway and if it's affecting the sessions, I'll bite the bullet and switch it to the Sunday.

Would it be possible to incl Thursday's session in your long run - drop-out the 3x10mins/pyramids during the run. This way you get in a MLR and a session.

Edit:
Be careful not to cram too much in the week. You could spread the load over 10 days/2weeks. Remember, you don't get better in the sessions - it's during the recovery that the adaptations take place. If you over stress the system, you'll gradually grind it down and end up stale/injured.

KielyUnusual · 21-03-2014 11:07pm

Stazza wrote: »

Would it be possible to incl Thursday's session in your long run - drop-out the 3x10mins/pyramids during the run. This way you get in a MLR and a session.

Edit:
Be careful not to cram too much in the week. You could spread the load over 10 days/2weeks. Remember, you don't get better in the sessions - it's during the recovery that the adaptations take place. If you over stress the system, you'll gradually grind it down and end up stale/injured.

That could be a good idea. Part of me thinks that 3 sessions in the week might be a bit too much, even if one of them is taken a little easier i.e. the Thursday tempo. A long run with some faster sections on the Thursday might be ideal. I'm even plotting out some ideal sections for the faster stuff in my head as I type. Can always do the odd club session on the Thursday and fit in the longer run on the Sunday where appropriate. There is a tendency to compartmentalise everything in to the week because its easier to plan but a bit of flexibility never goes too far astray.

Timmaay · 21-03-2014 11:53pm

Stazza wrote: »

Edit:
Be careful not to cram too much in the week. You could spread the load over 10 days/2weeks. Remember, you don't get better in the sessions - it's during the recovery that the adaptations take place. If you over stress the system, you'll gradually grind it down and end up stale/injured.

I'd tend to agree, during the off season your LSR, and plenty of miles are very important for building up strength, however during the track season itself I personally rarely bother with any long runs, likes of over 50/60mins. I do actually sometimes do 3 sessions a week, however they certainly wouldn't all hard tough sessions, maybe one hard sessions, one easier session where you focus on form/pacing, and then likes of tempo, or much more common for me, my 3rd session is a race.

Timmaay · 21-03-2014 11:56pm

pconn062 wrote: »

I think a long run is still important for the 1500m/mile. The 1500m as an event is about 50% aerobic/50% anaerobic so it's really important to have a well developed aerobic system.

I would have thought its much much more than 50% aerobic, maybe 80/90% aerobic??? I would have said 400m is about a 50:50 split! However that doesn't change my opinion that most your LSRs are to be done in the off season!

pconn062 · 22-03-2014 12:00am

Timmaay wrote: »

I would have thought its much much more than 50% aerobic, maybe 80/90% aerobic??? I would have said 400m is about a 50:50 split! However that doesn't change my opinion that most your LSRs are to be done in the off season!

I'm just going by the info in this document here:

http://runstrong.me/images/Training%20CliffsNotes.pdf

As far as I'm aware the 400m is primarily an anaerobic event, hence the lack on aerobic training by a lot of 400m runners. I agree that you could cut back on the LSR's in the race part of your season, but at this time of year and in the early part of the racing season I think they are important. However I would max out at 10-12 miles, and probably less than that during the competitive phase.

Timmaay · 22-03-2014 12:05am

pconn062 wrote: »

I agree that you could cut back on the LSR's in the race part of your season, but at this time of year and in the early part of the racing season I think they are important. However I would max out at 10-12 miles, and probably less than that during the competitive phase.

Ok giving my pathetic off season, with very few LSR I certainly wont argue this ha, I'll be up against it but really do need to push up the miles during most of April!

KielyUnusual · 22-03-2014 10:29am

With the transition to track fairy almost complete, I may as well make the final step.

What spikes do people wear/would reccommend for 1500m/mile distance?

Can't stay using my XC spikes forever.

Timmaay · 22-03-2014 11:12am

KielyUnusual wrote: »

With the transition to track fairy almost complete, I may as well make the final step.

What spikes do people wear/would reccommend for 1500m/mile distance?

Can't stay using my XC spikes forever.

Get a pair of nike victories or some other super lightweight spikes, and just them just for races and the od training session before a race. They might not give ya much direct weight benefit ha, but your feet will feel light as a feathers, which should give ya abit of a phycology boost ha.

Or ya could keep wearing the mucky xc spikes, and intimidate the opposition, they'll think your a nobody doing your 1st track race ha.

KielyUnusual · 23-03-2014 12:03am

Timmaay wrote: »

Get a pair of nike victories or some other super lightweight spikes, and just them just for races and the od training session before a race. They might not give ya much direct weight benefit ha, but your feet will feel light as a feathers, which should give ya abit of a phycology boost ha.

Or ya could keep wearing the mucky xc spikes, and intimidate the opposition, they'll think your a nobody doing your 1st track race ha.

It's not too far from the truth Timmaay.

Thanks for the advice. I'll call in to AK after work this week and give them a try.

pconn062 · 23-03-2014 12:26am

KielyUnusual wrote: »

It's not too far from the truth Timmaay.

Thanks for the advice. I'll call in to AK after work this week and give them a try.

Make sure you get them in as flash a colour as you can, nobody will take you serious if you turn up in a grey pair of spikes, the more luminous the better! By all rights your spikes should cause some sort of retinal damage!

pa4 · 23-03-2014 2:48pm

KielyUnusual wrote: »

With the transition to track fairy almost complete, I may as well make the final step.

What spikes do people wear/would reccommend for 1500m/mile distance?

Can't stay using my XC spikes forever.

I wear Nike Matumbos. They say their designed towards 5-10k but I find them great for the shorter distances too. Their as light as the Nike Victories and look cool too.

Timmaay · 23-03-2014 3:50pm

Timmaay wrote: »

Ok giving my pathetic off season, with very few LSR I certainly wont argue this ha, I'll be up against it but really do need to push up the miles during most of April!

Got dragged out on an 80min run today with a clubmate! (well was only 75mins for me, I took a 5mins break in it ha), anyways utterly shattered now ha, but just what I really need to get back fit soon!

Stazza · 23-03-2014 3:59pm

pa4 wrote: »

I wear Nike Matumbos. They say their designed towards 5-10k but I find them great for the shorter distances too. Their as light as the Nike Victories and look cool too.

Me too

The Middle Distance Thread

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