AEW - All Elite Wrestling (*Spoilers for Latest Show*)

I'm struggling to think of any entertainer on earth I'm enjoying more right now than Jericho.

Monokne wrote: »

I am fast losing interest in AEW. Not to where I won't watch, I just don't feel excited for the show anymore.

If you're a fan of spot heavy wrestling, this show might be for you, but all I could think watching that first half hour last night was who could care about this? You just had dudes doing moves with no rhyme or reason for half hour between the opener and the second match, No promos, no stakes, no upward momentum for winners, no downward trajectory for losers. Just men doing moves until one random move is the finish.

I enjoyed the Cody segment & the Jericho promo.

The rest...I'm not into the Brandi stuff. Does nothing for me. Moxley never resonated with me as Ambrose and that's even more pronounced now. I don't think that was a good match either.

I will be interested to see the ratings. It feels like Khan & co are banking on the idea that just putting good modern wrestling out there is enough. I don't think it is. You become fatigued by the sameness. There needs to be more promos, more character development & more stakes, to my eye.

I can't say I disagree with you, and I feel the main problem is that they are trying to compete with NXT for immediate viewers, and they feel they need the show to be "all action" from the off. Priority is on the short term ratings rather than the long term growth of the brand, which is a dreadful oversight.

They need to understand that building a potential crossover superstar like Jack Perry is only one of several far better ways to win out this ratings war in the long run.

sirmanga wrote: »

That's exactly the problem with AEW, they are concentrating on in ring action. It isn't giving us anything we can't get elsewhere. WWE put on very good matches on Raw, SmackDown and NXT every single week.
As outrageously awful as some WWE storylines are, at least it breaks up the shows a little bit. AEW has a crippling sense of monotony and sameness to it every week. It's especially noticeable the last few weeks when they have no PPV to aim their feuds towards.

How is AEW an alternative to WWE? They are not doing anything better than WWE. That isn't to say they are doing things worse than WWE, but they are just going round in circles, listening to one portion of the audience. That being the Meltzer influenced smart fans.

Why watch it if it doesn't cater to your tastes? Plenty of promotions out there that focus on angles, storyline heavy stuff etc. You think it's a problem, I think it's a strength, different strokes for different folks. Similarly I would hate to see NJPW go in an angle, storyline heavy direction, much prefer the in-ring action personally.

If anyone genuinely thinks this is the second coming of the Monday Night wars they are absolutely deluded. The comparison can't be made because it's just not true, regardless of company, brand, wrestling style etc. You'd have to think it's 99.9% likely wrestling popularity will never reach those heights again.

And I'm not sure going angle heavy would bring in loads of new viewers to AEW, Raw and SD are storyline driven and don't seem to be growing massively in popularity.

Cody having a wee dig at Damien Priest and then later they do a reference to Britt's appearance at WarGames.

I am not the only person to make this point, but NXT is presenting the alternative product to Raw & Smackdown, whereas AEW uses a lot of the Raw/SD tropes. I think that's why a couple hundred thousand people have given up or gone back to NXT.

The biggest surprise to me has been the absence of hierarchy in their booking. I really thought we would have top tier stars who rarely if ever lost rather than the 50-50 stuff that WWE does. Instead, Omega has lost half his big matches, so has Pac, so has Page. The Bucks & Lucha's have done a number of meaningless jobs. The women all just beat each other. Last night the number one contender did a job. Why!? And within seconds it was forgotten because they had 5 angles to run.

The other thing is between Dark Order & Nightmare Collective they have two cult acts, and when you add in Havoc, Allin, Butcher, Blade & Bunny it feels like 25% of the roster is doing a dark/horror/goth gimmick.

Slim win for AEW in ratings this week

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alfredkonuwa/2019/12/05/aew-dynamite-barely-edges-wwe-nxt-by-6000-viewers/

Monokne wrote: »

You are conflating the issues, and adding your own spin.

There is a case to be made, which others have argued, that the show is too wrestling heavy and there is not enough character development.

There is also a case to be made, separately, which I would make, that the character development they are doing is derivative and hard to take seriously - a top heel group doing heavy comedy, mutliple acts doing the spooky stuff.

Cody tends to hit the right notes. He can wrestle well, and does, but he also cuts good promos, and his angles tend to have a realism & simplicity to them. Simplistic and realistic is what they should go for.

Adding my own spin :rolleyes:
The one consistency they've had is you moaning anyway. Most people would have turned off 3 weeks in but you seem to always look for negatives.
Although fair play to Omega & the Bucks on this weeks rating, since they were apparently the ones at fault for the drop last week they'll need to get the praise for this week.

ERG89 wrote: »

Adding my own spin :rolleyes:
The one consistency they've had is you moaning anyway. Most people would have turned off 3 weeks in but you seem to always look for negatives.

Attacking the person rather than the point is a sure fire way of showing you know there's truth in what I'm saying & you don't want to discuss that.

I specifically noted the spin you were putting on it & debunked it directly. Have you any retort to the points I made, or do you just want to deflect and have a petty argument? How about we just move on?

The show had largely been good and the issues have come over the past few weeks. The last 3 shows have had the influx of new and similar acts, the establishment of the fact that guys are going to trade meaningless wins & losses a lot, and that's coincided with the novelty of the show wearing off, and the crowds being quieter & less reactive.

If you can't hear reasoned & rational criticism without roundly dismissing it, take a page out of Cody's book, he gets it:

There's a sort of a strange logic with some people and AEW. Thinking that because it's an alternative to WWE or because it's the polar opposite that it is immune from criticism. It's possible to both want it to succeed, watch it and still give it complaints.

I think the complaint that it's too wrestling heavy is totally valid. I remember when 205 Live started and it became a case of wrestling for wrestlings sake and it was hard to get invested in. No one is saying AEW is bad but it's hard to stay invested in. It doesn't mean we need some cucking story or something stupid but some character development or story would really add to it. Hell a lot of people haven't even cut promos yet. Thinking back to the highlights from the last few weeks have been promos. Cody, Jericho, Moxley, MJF all give amazing non-wrestling segments and they're some of the most over guys there. The show needs variety. They have some of the best talent in the world, we know that but on a show where every nearly wrestler is amazing, that's not enough. AEW is aiming for the smarks who know these people from the indies, which is why they've put less development into a few of them. That'll only get you so far though. Criticise WWE for a lot of things but they often do character stuff well even if the stories can be dogsh1te. Right now from AEW, what do we have to distinguish Jimmy Havoc from The Bunny, The Butcher and the Blade? They're both leather clad goths. Sure Havoc is hardcore but have we gotten anything else from him that you wouldn't have picked up from watching one of his matches, is he that shallow a character. Half the roster seems to have nothing to do until they get a random title match and suddenly develop a personality outside of, I'm a great wrestler.

Let me be clear, I like AEW but the last few weeks with no particular end goal in mind except put on some great matches they're aimless. We're in a massive wrestling boom where we can find amazing wrestling in a lot of places, story and character matter. People can love AEW and still have some issues with it and hope for it to improve. There are problems with certain aspects of AEW. They were easier to hide in the beginning and when there was a PPV in sight. I don't get why we're meant to just be happy it exists and can't give it some reasonsable criticism.

I found both shows this week to be less than amazing. I feel the honeymoon period for both shows is over. That said, both shows still were entertaining but had plenty of negatives.

You cant have homeruns every week and I feel both shows dropped in terms of over all enjoyment.

Jericho has so many positives but Im finding it hard to take him seriously as a world champion as the weeks progress. Far too much comedy for my liking. As noted above Cody seems to strike the right balance in terms of keeping things simple and entertaining. His feud with MJF has been mostly done right.

While Jericho has done plenty in elevating the likes of Scorpio Sky, Allan and now JB, I just dont see his work being the headline act for a company. Hes too old in ring and the comedy has slowly creeped in week after week to the point where its a turn off. That said its far from brutal either and still better than anything on Smackdown bar Daniel Bryan.

The likes of the YB Kenny, Lucha Bros and Pac are all talented wrestlers and their in ring work is fine. But i feel less is more sometimes and they all have had very little chatacter development since Dynamite began and are slowly suffering as a result.

Also more development characterwise is needed for those lesser known stars like Darby Allan, the BBB, Britt Baker, Provate Party etc. Just less in ring and more backstage onterviews and angles please.

Agent Coulson wrote: »

As long as Luchasaurus is on AEW it will be the best wrestling show on TV if he leaves whatever show he ends up on will then be the best wrestling show on TV.

Saurus and the boys have a very entertaining mid card act. The spotlight with Jericho did them no harm at all. Ive no problem with them at all.

I do feel from AEW top of the card aspect it does their top heel no favors though. Jericho has already worked a short program with Darby Allan which may be similar to what they are doing with Jungle Boy in terms of plicky underdog vs top dog. plus its not what Jericho needs right now.

Jericho needs a more serious feud at the minute. Obviously Mox is on the horizon. I would have rathered a continuation of the Allan program rather than a new one with these guys if they are holding off Moxc vs Y2J.

I also felt the Cody feud was great but too short. Id rather them stretch that out a bit further then have MJF turn.

One thing I cant fault is Jerichos willingness to evevate younger / newer talent.

Sky Allan and now these guys are getting a nice rub win lose or draw.

Really liking the Dark Order skits, wouldn't mind seeing them trying to recruit Orange Cassidy for a bit of fun. Hopefully the skits lead to something though.