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How to improve a BER rating?

  • 11-02-2009 4:04pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭


    Got a BER assessment carried out and the guy rang back to tell me that we were at a D1 level and we would have to do something to get it up to the expected C level our house should be at for the time it was built (2003-2005, builder very very slow). So what can we do that would be cost effective to change the results to a C? We have energy saving bulbs everywhere except in one light fixture above the bathroom mirror in the main bathroom (strip light).


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭Cadzer


    as far as im aware the BER has nothhing to do with low watt bulbs. Its a rateing of how good your house to keep warm. Example if you have single grazing window and you put in double grazing then your BER rating will increase. Same a roof insalation , solor panel etc!


  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭newtoboards


    The bulbs definitely matter. There is supposed to be enough insulation in the attic according to the building regulations. The guy said something about falling between two age bands in the house and that affecting things but I don't see an age band affecting the house. I won't be doing anything expensive, i.e. anything that costs thousands but less than a thousand and I wouldn't mind. As you can probably guess from the age of the house we have double glazing as standard. It's a house in an estate, semi-detached.


  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Disco Bandit


    The bulbs definitely matter. There is supposed to be enough insulation in the attic according to the building regulations.

    building regulations are minimum standards. they can almost always be approved.

    300mm of well put down mineral wool batts is optimum.

    test the effects that changes make on DEAP before you commit.
    look heating controls and a +97% efficient boiler.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Got a BER assessment carried out and the guy rang back to tell me that we were at a D1 level and we would have to do something to get it up to the expected C level our house should be at for the time it was built (2003-2005, builder very very slow). So what can we do that would be cost effective to change the results to a C? We have energy saving bulbs everywhere except in one light fixture above the bathroom mirror in the main bathroom (strip light).

    The BER assessor must advise . He has seen the building no one else here has ( unless he posts here ) . That's what you are paying him for . This is the very reason to get a BER assessment - unless you are getting one only because "you have to" at point of sale / letting

    If you assessor can't give you reasonable cost vs benefit proposals - get another assessor

    ...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Cadzer wrote: »
    as far as im aware the BER has nothhing to do with low watt bulbs.

    Low energy lighting is an aspect of BER


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    Got a BER assessment carried out and the guy rang back to tell me that we were at a D1 level and we would have to do something to get it up to the expected C level our house should be at for the time it was built (2003-2005, builder very very slow). So what can we do that would be cost effective to change the results to a C? We have energy saving bulbs everywhere except in one light fixture above the bathroom mirror in the main bathroom (strip light).

    If you got the BER cert you should get an Advisary report also as standard. This should give you an idea where to start. Also your assessor should also be able to give you a table of improvements with each improvement starting from lowest cost/most effective to highest cost/least effective. This may not of been included in origonal price but should not cost much more. You should be able to determine what you need to do to improve your rating from this and then get prices based on this amount of work.

    Give him a call and ask for his advise. He may not be aware that you require this as most are getting certs just to comply with Co Co or Solicitor requests and are only interested in the cert and not interested in doing any improvements.

    By there is no pass or fail with this. You do not need to be a C rating. Your home should be at this rating to comply with building regs at the time of building but the BER has nothing to do with this on a second hand home. It is there primarily to provide information to buyer or tennants of dwellings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    By the way it sould not take much to go from a D1 to a C3. Maybe some added attic insulation will do it.

    Why dont you apply for the new grants which have come on stream. You would also qualify for up €200 off your BER cost.

    See link -> HERE


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    Got a BER assessment carried out and the guy rang back to tell me that we were at a D1 level and we would have to do something to get it up to the expected C level our house should be at for the time it was built (2003-2005, builder very very slow). So what can we do that would be cost effective to change the results to a C? We have energy saving bulbs everywhere except in one light fixture above the bathroom mirror in the main bathroom (strip light).

    Hi NTB

    As part of the orig assement you can purchase an additional report from your BER inspector as to how to raise the standard of your house. It might seem like a bit of a con but its like getting an electrician out to certify the house. He will certify the house but then charge you for the full report as to how to improve it.

    It's worth getting cause when you think of it you can then get re certified (I think it cost's less- as the BER inspector is only checking you carried out the work suggested) No other BER inspector can go against the original one.

    I would appreciate if you keep me informed about this I am gloing down this road at the moment ie applying to be an inspector!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 wall2wall


    Hi NTB

    As part of the orig assement you can purchase an additional report from your BER inspector as to how to raise the standard of your house. It might seem like a bit of a con but its like getting an electrician out to certify the house. He will certify the house but then charge you for the full report as to how to improve it.

    It's worth getting cause when you think of it you can then get re certified (I think it cost's less- as the BER inspector is only checking you carried out the work suggested) No other BER inspector can go against the original one.

    I would appreciate if you keep me informed about this I am gloing down this road at the moment ie applying to be an inspector!


    Joey,

    You've got that wrong about purchasing an additional report. Topcat is right, all certs come with an advisory report that I personally sit down with all my clients when I'm giving them a cert and go through the advisory report and what they can do to improve the rating. I also tell them that they can come back to me if they do make improvements and I will do up a new cert with evidence of work that has been done. Obviously this will be cheaper than the original fee because I've alraedy got most of my information.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 wall2wall


    NTB,
    The quickest and cheapest way to improve your rating is by upping your attic insulation and putting a damper on the chimney if you have one. Increase controls on your heating, timeclock, room stats, cylinder stat, cylinder insulation, trv's. The new government grant scheme has a minimum spend of i think €400 or €500 (I could be wrong on that amount). Apparently it's only worth going for if you are spending a few grand. You should get your attic insulated for less than €400. I got two layers of 200mm fibreglass in mine recently for €300.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,262 ✭✭✭✭Joey the lips


    Hi Folks sorry if I have gotten it wrong on the call back cert it was what I was told but I am not an inspector so app your feedback setting me straight. can the inspectors give us an idea of true cost of becoming a ber inspector bearing in mind you can quote specific companies unless you pm me the detail.

    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭newtoboards


    We're selling (fingers and toes crossed while I type that) so it's an obligation rather than a home improvements thing. We had a look at the insulation in the attic last night and although there's stuff between the joists, there's none over the joists so off to hardware store with us to lay down an extra layer. I also saw the water tank isn't insulated, would that help??? As we're selling I hope we're not hanging around so long that we avail of the grant and as our house is newish I don't know if it would qualify? We have a chimney balloon but no damper and I don't know what that is. Sent a mail to the assessor yesterday evening and awaiting a response on feedback. Thanks for the responses


  • Registered Users Posts: 308 ✭✭clint_eastman


    topcatcbr wrote: »
    By the way it sould not take much to go from a D1 to a C3. Maybe some added attic insulation will do it.

    Why dont you apply for the new grants which have come on stream. You would also qualify for up €200 off your BER cost.

    See link -> HERE

    Maybe slightly off topic, but what rating should I be expecting from a house built to regs in 2000?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    Maybe slightly off topic, but what rating should I be expecting from a house built to regs in 2000?

    It should be a D2 min but could perform much better C1 depending on type of dwelling and features. Get an assessment done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 nodenrg


    We're selling (fingers and toes crossed while I type that) so it's an obligation rather than a home improvements thing. We had a look at the insulation in the attic last night and although there's stuff between the joists, there's none over the joists so off to hardware store with us to lay down an extra layer. I also saw the water tank isn't insulated, would that help??? As we're selling I hope we're not hanging around so long that we avail of the grant and as our house is newish I don't know if it would qualify? We have a chimney balloon but no damper and I don't know what that is. Sent a mail to the assessor yesterday evening and awaiting a response on feedback. Thanks for the responses

    An extra layer of 200mm quilt insulation over the joists laid at right angles will make a difference. As well as Wall2wall's comments consider draught proofing windows and doors, dry lining where practical and introducing a draught lobby or porch if possible, though this must be a minimum of 2 sq.m. Even curtains can make a difference!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭Carlow52


    We're selling (fingers and toes crossed while I type that) so it's an obligation rather than a home improvements thing. We had a look at the insulation in the attic last night and although there's stuff between the joists, there's none over the joists so off to hardware store with us to lay down an extra layer. I also saw the water tank isn't insulated, would that help??? As we're selling I hope we're not hanging around so long that we avail of the grant and as our house is newish I don't know if it would qualify? We have a chimney balloon but no damper and I don't know what that is. Sent a mail to the assessor yesterday evening and awaiting a response on feedback. Thanks for the responses


    Interesting: I wonder what difference the rating change will make to the sale price.

    eg 2000 in 'home improvements' = ?? increase in price

    Also: while the house must be rated, is the purchaser, or his solicitor entitled to see the advisory report.

    Re what Joey posted
    It's worth getting cause when you think of it you can then get re certified (I think it cost's less- as the BER inspector is only checking you carried out the work suggested) No other BER inspector can go against the original one.

    So if the first assessor has done the assessment wrong, are u saying that that another one will cover up for him:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭newtoboards


    Good point Carlow52, not sure it would make a difference but it's kinda like a leaving certificate! A pass just doesn't seem good enough if you get me. A low honour is still an honour :)

    I doubt it will make a difference in selling price of the house but when you're up against other houses in your estate or area you may be able to persuade somone to buy the higher rated house as compared to the lower rated house with no "improvements" made - well that's the hope anyway.

    We put in insulation into the attic over the weekend. Draught proofing (google is proving to be very educational for this) is not that expensive so will do that. The draught lobby seems to be a bit of a job building wise as we'd have to attach a porch to the outside of the house and that (from reading the DEAP manual) doesn't seem to count if it's unheated but I could be mis reading the manual as a fair bit of it goes over my head. Lots of people seem to be improving the insulation in their houses as the shops were selling the stuff pretty fast! Drylining isn't an option because of the cost. These upgrades/improvements must be cost effective. I'm going to ring the guy to come back and do another lookover and see if it improves with the insulation, then we can get our cert!

    I never thought of the legal aspect regarding the report. I presumed that the cert was simply a condition of the sale and that was it, if they wanted to see it they would go onto the SEI website to have a look at the rating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 nodenrg


    The draught lobby does not need to be heated. Ironically it can be of quite flimsy uninsulated construction (not that I'm recommending that!) but it must be a minimum 2 sq.m. with room to close one set of doors before you open the next.


  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭newtoboards


    Seriously? I thought the BER was introduced to improve the over all energy efficiency of a house. Wouldn't building something flimsy and unheated actually defeat the purpose? Would it not act as a heat drain?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 nodenrg


    Not if your the wall and door between the lobby and the house is insulated and draught proofed to the same level as the rest of the external walls. In this case the lobby itself is considered to be outside the building envelope. It won't be a heat drain if it is not heated!

    The other alternative is to build the lobby entirely within the building envelope (putting another door inside your front door). This space may or may not be heated and again it won't be a heat drain if it is insulated from the outside.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭newtoboards


    nodenrg wrote: »
    Not if your the wall and door between the lobby and the house is insulated and draught proofed to the same level as the rest of the external walls. In this case the lobby itself is considered to be outside the building envelope. It won't be a heat drain if it is not heated!

    The other alternative is to build the lobby entirely within the building envelope (putting another door inside your front door). This space may or may not be heated and again it won't be a heat drain if it is insulated from the outside.
    Thanks for that, very interesting! I didn't know that. We'll have to see whether or not it's cost effective to build this, at the moment I would say no but you never know, if my house want's that honour then perhaps it may be worthwhile!


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,721 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Seriously? I thought the BER was introduced to improve the over all energy efficiency of a house. Wouldn't building something flimsy and unheated actually defeat the purpose? Would it not act as a heat drain?

    no it wasnt...

    it was introduced as a means to compare buildings of a similar size and age from an energy usage point of view...

    the 'building regulations' were brought in to "improve the over all energy efficiency of a house"...

    thats were you need t look if you either want to upgrade, or check compliance...


  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭newtoboards


    Thanks! I have to say I'm ignorant of the building regulations and only catching up on BER now but simply because we're selling!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Indeed ( @syd ) . BER is all about consumer information.

    It's true benefit will not be felt by most people for some time - but when you go to buy or rent a property - you will be able to compare based on energy performance

    A lot of focus on boards and other forums is on how/why does one obtain a BER cert for one's own property - naturally because the BER provision is new . But what you have to obtain- you will receive when you move on .

    For the self builder the BER process is an excellent method to make informed calculated decisions pre - build .

    Foolish to see it as "a tax" ( some do :rolleyes: )


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    Indeed ( @syd ) . BER is all about consumer information.

    It's true benefit will not be felt by most people for some time - but when you go to buy or rent a property - you will be able to compare based on energy performance

    A lot of focus on boards and other forums is on how/why does one obtain a BER cert for one's own property - naturally because the BER provision is new . But what you have to obtain- you will receive when you move on .

    For the self builder the BER process is an excellent method to make informed calculated decisions pre - build .

    Foolish to see it as "a tax" ( some do :rolleyes: )

    Speaking of Tax there will be some fun when the carbon taxes are introduced next year. People might see the benifit in having a BER done then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 418 ✭✭newtoboards


    Actually going compleletly off topic, we recently had to start renting another house (the reason we've to sell) and when I asked the letting agent if there was a BER cert I was scoffed at. The choice of properties was slim in the village and we need to live there due to circumstances as they say. I can only imagine how bad the ber rating would be though as the house has storage heaters which I haven't seen since renting apartments in college and the horrific ESB bills that came with them. Unfortunately when I looked for somewhere to complain there was absolutely nobody to turn to and we needed the house the week we started looking so were in no position to make demands of the letting agent, otherwise we'd now be living in a tent, which I'm sure would be a barrel of laughs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    The local authority is the body to enforce this . If you wish to pursue it - write to them c/a Enforcement Dept .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭topcatcbr


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    The local authority is the body to enforce this . If you wish to pursue it - write to them c/a Enforcement Dept .

    Please do as these letting agents and (Some ) auctioneers are trying to undermine a system which was designed to give the Buyer more information (power) and as long as they get away with it the more it is going to happen.

    This is the kind of thing that has this country the way it is.

    The "I have it and if you want it you will do as i want" attitude. It is the buyer who deserves the respect here. Not the landlord or his agent.

    I have heard much from the landlords protesting and spitting their dummy out (on JD show in particular) Will the ordinary man who seems to be ignored stand up and be counted. When will we hear from them. It is their rights being trampled on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40 legs akimbo.


    Actually going compleletly off topic, we recently had to start renting another house (the reason we've to sell) and when I asked the letting agent if there was a BER cert I was scoffed at. The choice of properties was slim in the village and we need to live there due to circumstances as they say. I can only imagine how bad the ber rating would be though as the house has storage heaters which I haven't seen since renting apartments in college and the horrific ESB bills that came with them. Unfortunately when I looked for somewhere to complain there was absolutely nobody to turn to and we needed the house the week we started looking so were in no position to make demands of the letting agent, otherwise we'd now be living in a tent, which I'm sure would be a barrel of laughs.


    Quite Frankly if you have signed a tennancy contract it is rendered null and void, if you wish to break the terms and walk away at any point the landlord has no comeback as he has in effect broken the law in not providing a BER cert, ignorance of the fact is no defence.
    If you offer for rent you provide a BER, if not you break the law.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,389 ✭✭✭Carlow52


    sinnerboy wrote: »
    The local authority is the body to enforce this . If you wish to pursue it - write to them c/a Enforcement Dept .

    Check is landlord registered with these guys
    http://www.prtb.ie/


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