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We landed on Mars... again? [Mod note post #1]

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  • Options
    #272
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,064 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Is Markus Antonius peddling a "flat earth" conspiracy or a "spaceflight is fake" conspiracy or a "space photos are fake" conspiracy? Not really sure. It's comical either way though :pac:


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    #273
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Is Markus Antonius peddling a "flat earth" conspiracy or a "spaceflight is fake" conspiracy or a "space photos are fake" conspiracy? Not really sure. It's comical either way though :pac:
    Not sure he knows himself.
    We're not going to get a straight answer anyway.


  • Options
    #274
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,064 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Ha, this picture is as hilarious as it is fake! You need to use the thinking side of your brain.

    It doesnt' matter what angle you take a picture of the earth from - at this distance we can see half of the globe in this picture. And yet africa appears to make up about 1/8th of the entire surface of the earth! Despite land only making up 29% of the globe surface and africa taking up only 20% of the total land mass! It's ridiculous to think NASA get away with this fish story.:D

    What about this google maps composite:

    acOsNpO.png

    Does this give an accurate representation of the globe?

    Mmmmmm quite clear from this you have very little thinking going on in your brain. Very funny though, keep it up. :D:pac:


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    #275
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Ha, this picture is as hilarious as it is fake! You need to use the thinking side of your brain.

    It doesnt' matter what angle you take a picture of the earth from - at this distance we can see half of the globe in this picture. And yet africa appears to make up about 1/8th of the entire surface of the earth! Despite land only making up 29% of the globe surface and africa taking up only 20% of the total land mass! It's ridiculous to think NASA get away with this fish story.:D

    What is your line of reasoning with all this? do you believe the world is flat?


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    #276
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    And now what's the bets the tactic will be: "waahhh! How dare you accuse me of being a Flat Earther?! I obviously don't believe something so stupid! I'm just asking if the entire space program has been fake for the last 60 years!"


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    #277
    Markus Antonius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    King Mob wrote: »
    Lol Whut?
    This is just rambling.



    Ah. Ok. Hand holding it is.
    From Apollo 17:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Marble#/media/File%3AThe_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg
    From TIROS 1
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIROS-1#/media/File%3ATIROS-1-Earth.png
    From Molniya:
    https://i.redd.it/d9zyeb623rg01.jpg
    ATS1:
    https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/11Dec1966_ATS1.jpg
    ATS3:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATS-3#/media/File%3AATSIII_10NOV67_153107.jpg
    Lunar Orbiter 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:First_View_of_Earth_from_Moon.jpg
    Surveyor 3: https://planetary.s3.amazonaws.com/web/assets/pictures/_346x398_crop_center-center_line/first-color-photo-of-earth-from-the-moon.png.webp
    The ironically named DODGE:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/First_color_image_of_the_earth_from_outer_space_%28Dodge_Satellite%29.png/996px-First_color_image_of_the_earth_from_outer_space_%28Dodge_Satellite%29.png

    So how many more would you like?

    Either way, you can stop lying and saying that there's only one (or 2 or 3) photo.

    Yes. Excellent rebuttal there.
    However, the word composite does not mean fake.
    Again, because you need the hand holding:
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/composite

    Because different programs were available at different times to different people based on availability, cost and requirements.
    Because different techniques and methods suit different programs and requirements and goals.
    Different purposes mean different purposes. One person might be making an ultra detailed and super accurate model. One person might just be slapping together something quick and simple to stick in the background of an image.
    And people have different levels of skill. Some people are better at things than other people. For instance, I could bang together a 3d earth in Blender in a couple of minutes. (I've been learning over lockdown.) But it wouldn't be as good as someone able to make a super accurate, high detail one. Nor would it be as good as someone who could do a really good photoshop version.

    Again, I'm not sure what the point of this question is other than wasting time and asking pointless questions for some reason.
    You could of course explain what your point is, but we both know you're not going to do this.


    Yup. You haven't explained why it isn't and you've already had to lie about what I've given you.
    My response got plenty of likes so at least some people believed my response was satisfactory.

    If anyone besides yourself believes that my answers haven't been complete or fair, please speak up, explain why and I will endeavour to remedy this.

    But as I said, you have arbitrarily decided that any answer I give, regardless of quality would be unsatisfactory. This is because you are not engaging in good faith and are more just annoyed with me because I'm a meanie to conspiracy theorists.
    Again, that's fine. But it's not fooling anyone.


    No, I linked to a good many examples, including specific ones you asked for.

    Your claim was there was one photo. I've shown that's false.


    There is.


    Because the rover was packed into it's reentry vehicle and couldn't.
    There's plenty of photos of Mars.


    They did. and there's a bunch of other Mars missions that were specifically designed to take photos of Mars.
    Specifically:
    https://mars.nasa.gov/mro/


    Nope. I answered all of your questions directly, concisely and clearly with sources.
    You have ignored mine as per typical conspiracy theorist tactics.

    So what have you been trying to demonstrate exactly?
    Here we go again, completely avoiding my original question and flooding the thread with irrelevance. I've already told you, you can paste as many links as you want - there is nothing of substance in any of them. I specifically asked you about pictures of the entire earth and you continuously go off topic to avoid the question:
    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    why, in the 60-70 years that humans have been going to space that we have only managed to get one picture of the entire earth?

    You keep telling me there are plenty of this, plenty of that. Where? Where are all the pictures?

    I can't believe you are standing over this link to the "complete pictures" of the globe of mars:

    50nCeEO.png

    Be honest with me now - Do you actually believe these pictures are real?


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    #278
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,129 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Here we go again, completely avoiding my original question and flooding the thread with irrelevance. I've already told you, you can paste as many links as you want - there is nothing of substance in any of them. I specifically asked you about pictures of the entire earth and you continuously go off topic to avoid the question:



    You keep telling me there are plenty of this, plenty of that. Where? Where are all the pictures?

    I can't believe you are standing over this link to the "complete pictures" of the globe of mars:

    50nCeEO.png

    Be honest with me now - Do you actually believe these pictures are real?

    so now you have changed tack from "the pictures dont exist" to "the pictures are fake".


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    #279
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,457 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Just dropped in to see what was happening in here and bemused by a poster trying to convince others that there are no pictures of earth from space and then posting clips from engineering videos in a gotcha! moment.

    There are
    literally
    millions of them.

    As one example, the DSCOVR satellite is live streaming images of Earth each day
    https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/


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    #280
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,129 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    astrofool wrote: »
    Just dropped in to see what was happening in here and bemused by a poster trying to convince others that there are no pictures of earth from space and then posting clips from engineering videos in a gotcha! moment.

    There are
    literally
    millions of them.

    As one example, the DSCOVR satellite is live streaming images of Earth each day
    https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/

    Be honest with me now - Do you actually believe these pictures are real?


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    #281
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Here we go again, completely avoiding my original question and flooding the thread with irrelevance. I've already told you, you can paste as many links as you want - there is nothing of substance in any of them. I specifically asked you about pictures of the entire earth and you continuously go off topic to avoid the question:



    You keep telling me there are plenty of this, plenty of that. Where? Where are all the pictures?

    I can't believe you are standing over this link to the "complete pictures" of the globe of mars:

    50nCeEO.png

    Be honest with me now - Do you actually believe these pictures are real?

    Let's just say you are right, what is the point you are trying to make here..

    That satellites don't exist? that all the space agencies are conducting a massive lie? that spaceflight hasn't happened? that the world is flat? what exactly is it?


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    #282
    Markus Antonius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so now you have changed tack from "the pictures dont exist" to "the pictures are fake".
    astrofool wrote: »
    Just dropped in to see what was happening in here and bemused by a poster trying to convince others that there are no pictures of earth from space and then posting clips from engineering videos in a gotcha! moment.

    There are
    literally
    millions of them.

    As one example, the DSCOVR satellite is live streaming images of Earth each day
    https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/
    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Be honest with me now - Do you actually believe these pictures are real?
    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Let's just say you are right, what is the point you are trying to make here..

    That satellites don't exist? that all the space agencies are conducting a massive lie? that spaceflight hasn't happened? that the world is flat? what exactly is it?

    Ha! This is what you all resort to? Just goes to show that if you just question one thing, it exposes the countless flaws! The whole space program is fake. It's all fabricated by men sitting at computers churning out spurious computer rendered nonsense!

    There is no science going on here. We've learned nothing in the last 70 years.

    At least Elon Musk (despite the fact that I hate the man) doesn't try to hide it



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    #283
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Ha! This is what you all resort to? Just goes to show that if you just question one thing, it exposes the countless flaws! The whole space program is fake.

    Why?


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    #284
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,064 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Ha! This is what you all resort to? Just goes to show that if you just question one thing, it exposes the countless flaws! The whole space program is fake. It's all fabricated by men sitting at computers churning out spurious computer rendered nonsense!

    Be interested to hear your explanation for satellite television or meteorological satellites? That all fake too? Sky Sports and the satellite dishes on people's houses are all fake yeah?


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    #285
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,457 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    Be honest with me now - Do you actually believe these pictures are real?

    You don't believe the dscovr images are genuine? If so, why not?


  • Options
    #286
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,457 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Ha! This is what you all resort to? Just goes to show that if you just question one thing, it exposes the countless flaws! The whole space program is fake. It's all fabricated by men sitting at computers churning out spurious computer rendered nonsense!

    There is no science going on here. We've learned nothing in the last 70 years.

    At least Elon Musk (despite the fact that I hate the man) doesn't try to hide it


    This has to be a wind up, is the earth spherical? Why do you think Neil Armstrongs photo is real, and none of the rest are real?


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    #287
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    real-earth-photos.jpg


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    #288
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Ha, this picture is as hilarious as it is fake! You need to use the thinking side of your brain.

    It doesnt' matter what angle you take a picture of the earth from - at this distance we can see half of the globe in this picture. And yet africa appears to make up about 1/8th of the entire surface of the earth! Despite land only making up 29% of the globe surface and africa taking up only 20% of the total land mass! It's ridiculous to think NASA get away with this fish story.:D

    What about this google maps composite:

    acOsNpO.png

    Does this give an accurate representation of the globe?

    EDIT - "at this distance we can see half of the globe in this picture. .."
    No, at that distance we are seeing less than 160 degrees, not 180 degrees, that's about 82% of the side facing us, or 41% of the total surface...


    continent-size.jpg


    blue-marble.jpg


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    #289
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Here we go again, completely avoiding my original question and flooding the thread with irrelevance.
    This is a lie. I answered all of your questions directly and fully.
    You have avoided mine.

    Lying is wrong.
    If you have to lie, you probably aren't on the right side.
    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    I've already told you, you can paste as many links as you want - there is nothing of substance in any of them. I specifically asked you about pictures of the entire earth and you continuously go off topic to avoid the question:

    You keep telling me there are plenty of this, plenty of that. Where? Where are all the pictures?
    And I supplied you a bunch of examples. You are just ignoring them because you don't want to believe they exist.
    You are also upset that I'm addressing your points directly rather than just dismiss them out of hand because they are so riduculous.
    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    I can't believe you are standing over this link to the "complete pictures" of the globe of mars:

    50nCeEO.png

    Be honest with me now - Do you actually believe these pictures are real?
    No. Never said they were.
    More lies on your part.

    And again, you still haven't answered any of my questions or addressed any of my points.

    This is getting a little sad.


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    #290
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Ha! This is what you all resort to? Just goes to show that if you just question one thing, it exposes the countless flaws! The whole space program is fake. It's all fabricated by men sitting at computers churning out spurious computer rendered nonsense!

    There is no science going on here. We've learned nothing in the last 70 years.
    Ok. This is a very silly, ignorant and childish thing to believe.
    But we're not going to be able to convince you otherwise since it's not possible to convince someone out of an insane belief like that.

    So please tell us why you believe that the whole space program is faked.

    Is it because the world is actually flat?
    The arguments you are using are straight out of the flat earther book.


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    #291
    Suckler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,143 ✭✭✭Suckler


    'Playing chess with a pigeon' springs to mind here.


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    #292
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,129 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    astrofool wrote: »
    You don't believe the dscovr images are genuine? If so, why not?

    i wasn;t being entirely serious.


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    #293
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,457 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i wasn;t being entirely serious.

    I'd hope not, some of these threads are like the twilight zone.


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    #294
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,129 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    astrofool wrote: »
    I'd hope not, some of these threads are like the twilight zone.

    i was parodying post #277


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    #295
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    I just want to know why the entire space program would be faked..

    How do individuals who believe that rationalise it to themselves? we can literally see satellites with the naked eye on a clear night, what do they think that is? where do they think rockets with people on them go when they launch? there's a 24 hour feed on the international space station, how is it possible to fake all that zero g stuff?


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    #296
    Markus Antonius
    Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    EDIT - "at this distance we can see half of the globe in this picture. .."
    No, at that distance we are seeing less than 160 degrees, not 180 degrees, that's about 82% of the side facing us, or 41% of the total surface...


    continent-size.jpg


    You go to flat earth debunk websites to learn science? Bizarre that you can't formulate your own counterarguments.

    Besides, who are you even arguing with? They are all composites so all irrelevant:

    https://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/about/people/RSimmon.html

    Also, I just noticed this line in the article (from a NASA employee no less):

    rjNQPRX.png

    Well then, isn't this embarrassing...


    King Mob wrote: »
    There have been many photos of the Earth from space.
    King Mob wrote: »

    Secondly there's been plenty of photos or Earth from these probes.
    King Mob wrote: »
    Again not actually true. NASA and other space agencies have released lots of full pictures of the Earth.
    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    There are plenty of pictures of earth from space.
    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    We have plenty now.

    Ouch :P


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    #297
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    You go to flat earth debunk websites to learn science? Bizarre that you can't formulate your own counterarguments.
    Again, you are the one using flat earth arguments.

    You didn't address the question about being a flat earther, so I suspect that you do indeed subscribe to this nonsense.
    It would explain your bizarre and childish beliefs about the space program.

    And neither of these have any baring on the validity of the counter arguments, you're just looking for any excuse to ignore them and not have to address them. Because you are desperate and don't have many options, and certainly can't address them directly, you're left with this particularly pathetic attempt.
    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Also, I just noticed this line in the article (from a NASA employee no less):

    Well then, isn't this is embarrassing...
    So the NASA employee says directly that there have been many photos of the Earth and you are arguing that he's supporting your bizarre conspiracy claims?

    Also, the article is from 2012. It's now 2021.
    For example, DSCOVR which takes hundreds of pictures of the Earth from far enough away to capture a whole face, was launched 2015.
    This was pointed out to you eariler, but because you can't address it, you ignored it and ran away.

    Also, could you explain what he means by this:
    By 2002, we finally had enough data to make a snap shot of the entire Earth. So we did. The hard part was creating a flat map of the Earth’s surface with four months’ of satellite data. Reto Stockli, now at the Swiss Federal Office of Meteorology and Climatology, did much of this work. Then we wrapped the flat map around a ball. My part was integrating the surface, clouds, and oceans to match people’s expectations of how Earth looks from space. That ball became the famous Blue Marble.

    I was happy with it but had no idea how widespread it would become. We never thought it would become an icon. I certainly never thought that I would become “Mr. Blue Marble.”

    We have since updated the base maps by increasing the resolution and, for 2004, we made a series of monthly maps.
    Do you believe that what he's saying here is all fake and lies? Or...?
    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    Ouch :P
    Lol yea. Excellent rebuttal there.
    Good job.
    Top marks.

    Maybe you could actually try again and address the points and questions this time though.

    But if you can't, that's fine. Just ignore them. Maybe they'll stop existing if you pretend hard enough and really really believe.


  • Options
    #298
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,769 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Markus Antonius wrote: »
    You go to flat earth debunk websites to learn science? Bizarre that you can't formulate your own counterarguments.

    Besides, who are you even arguing with? They are all composites so all irrelevant:


    Well then, isn't this embarrassing...

    Why, according to you, is there no space program?

    Do you believe satellites exist?

    Does the ISS exist according to you?

    If I believe something, and I'm writing on a public forum, I'm pretty eager to explain it and answer questions, you seem (so far) to be avoiding questions..


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    #299
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Seems that their problem is that a photo hasn't been taken with one specific type of technology that it is unlikely to make sense to use anymore because there are better and more efficient ways to do things. So the last time a photo was taken with a roll of film in a camera pointing back at the earth might be when they say, and they think they have won some argument because digital photography is used now and more detailed photos now taken by other means.

    No idea why they have been arguing that point for the last few pages though, we have all gained a listing of some lovely links to photos though.


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    #300
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    robinph wrote: »
    So the last time a photo was taken with a roll of film in a camera pointing back at the earth might be when they say, and they think they have won some argument because digital photography is used now and more detailed photos now taken by other means.
    The original claim was that there was only one full frame photo of earth from space. (The poster was wrong about who had taken the photo and when).

    This original claim was shown to be wrong.

    The poster has now changed their position to claim that the entire space program is fake and "created by guys on computers".

    Why this is so hasn't been explained.

    I suspect that the poster is just being contrarian for the sake of it.
    And for some reason, in their quest to show that I'm a big meanie, he has to pretend to be a flat earther.

    Bizarre behavior all together.


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    #301
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,162 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Markus Antonius wrote: »

    What about this google maps composite:

    acOsNpO.png

    Does this give an accurate representation of the globe?

    Yes, it does (without clouds, and the continental shelf is highlighted for effect, you wouldn't see underwater features from space...) but other than that, it's pretty good... Now what?


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