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15-05-2019, 16:49   #61
TheAnalyst_
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Immigration drives down wages and increases basic costs like housing. It's simple economics.

But if you own a house and have a decent job then immigration will likely boost your wealth.
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15-05-2019, 16:49   #62
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I can't tell if this is still the case, but last poll that I checked, there were more Irish abroad than foreigners here. It would be unfair blaming the immigration and forgetting about emigration, so I'd say that the migration numbers are overall positive in terms of it's effect for the housing crisis
The whole thing is upside down.

A good case in point is medical staff. We essentially fund the training of irish medical staff, only for them to swan off to other countries because the conditions aren't good enough here apparently.

Then we "need" to hire immigrant medical staff who'll happily take their positions instead.

Its a merry-go-round of terrible planning and foresight. The net effect seems to be that we lower our standards/quality of life. If the irish doctors are "better", and we lose them, and immigrant medical staff are "less good" and we hire them instead....you have to assume that there is a difference of quality otherwise the jobs that Irish staff are getting abroad would instead be filled by the staff we are hiring here instead.

There was segment on the news the other day and they had a class of student nurses, all but one of them had full intentions to move abroad immediately upon receipt of the degree that the country has paid for.

Its one giant catch-22. Same with housing. Someone/something is going to have to make an incision into this catch-22 or it will keep spiralling downwards.

So I agree with you in the sense that migration, in and out, is a problem. But specifically in terms of housing here, it is obviously an inward problem, otherwise the costs of accommodation wouldn't be going higher and higher.
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15-05-2019, 16:51   #63
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Unlimited immigration from the EU, no ceiling even possible legally, it’s hardly surprising a country this small with a strong economy has problems.
It’s not just housing, visit the regional hospital or maternity in Limerick and see how stretched services are. Or the schools in most provincial towns.
Freedom of movement is a great idea in principle, but in reality you cannot possibly plan long term while it is in place. It really needs to change to a more restrictive model, like the US, Canada or Australia. It is common sense.
It is not unlimited thought. If you cannot support yourself here after three months we could legally remove EU nationals from Ireland. However the bleeding heart brigade would be protesting in our airports if this happened.
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15-05-2019, 16:52   #64
enricoh
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I don't see any immigrant bashing. Im keeping the topic on point, that immigration is, in my opinion, the greatest factor contributing to the housing crisis.

To be fair, theres been very little said to contradict the assumption. Build more houses, I don't think that solves anything. Reign in the REITS etc, that has its place, but is still behind immigration in my opinion.

As said a few times now, its about numbers, and there being too many.
I think the figures given last night were that there was net immigration of 30k from eu and 30k+ from non eu last year. So 60k, concentrated in dublin I'd imagine.
How can that not be a huge factor in the scramble for housing?!!
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15-05-2019, 16:52   #65
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Immigrants pay more tax proportionally to the general population, so less immigrants = less money in the budget to spend on all these nice things you want. These problems are due to the budget allocation decisions in the last 15 years by successive right-wing governments.

Instead of putting money into health, schools and social housing, we are paying for bailing out banks, wasting money to make water services private and waiting for the private sector to build houses for everyone.
Simplistic analysis. This is populism Irish style, immigrants pay tax, are here to work etc. it’s not that such statements are not true, but they’re only part of the story, huge immigration like we have just had puts strain on housing and facilities,
Plus the unplanned nature of it makes providing sustainable services impossible without a lot of luck.
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15-05-2019, 16:53   #66
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It is not unlimited thought. If you cannot support yourself here after three months we could legally remove EU nationals from Ireland. However the bleeding heart brigade would be protesting in our airports if this happened.

I know I won't be

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnalyst_ View Post
Immigration drives down wages and increases basic costs like housing. It's simple economics.

But if you own a house and have a decent job then immigration will likely boost your wealth.
Also immigration is driving economic growth and economic growth is driving immigration in a virtuous circle.
Be happy that Ireland is such a desirable country (seriously, one of the best in EU, definitely in top 3).

Last edited by Cordell; 15-05-2019 at 16:56.
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15-05-2019, 16:55   #67
beejee
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There you go, screengrabbed, with the 7% area in red, just a small area off Dorset Street, not Dorset Street as you said

Did they not say "dorset street"?

Are you criticising me for stating what they said?

Yes the area highlighted is not the entirety of dorset street. Congratulations on the monumental victory. That's added some real "oomf" to the topic
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15-05-2019, 16:56   #68
hawkwing
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Had a room to rent 3yrs ago,got 20 visits and 3 were Irish.A fool can see and hear how many non-Irish are in Dublin.build 10,000 houses although there is no place to build them and just more will come as the gates are open to most of the world.whether they are good,bad,work or don't bother is beside the point,where are they supposed to live as they have no interest in moving to rural Ireland where there's hardly any jobs and social life has almost died in the last ten years.
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15-05-2019, 16:56   #69
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According to Prime Time; the number of migrants coming from the EU: 31,000. From outside the EU: 30,900. Less than a third of those coming from outside of the EU are arriving on work visas.

Of course importing such large amounts of people who aren’t working in skilled areas will put huge strain on the rental market and social services.

Anyone with a brain can see that.

A question for those who blame it all on the gubberment. How can they possibly be responsible for building housing and social housing, for people who are yet to move to the country and who have just recently moved here?
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15-05-2019, 16:57   #70
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Yeah I don't know Hardwick Lane at all, I just saw it there on google maps, see if you can figure it out from the screengrab I posted above, but I think I've got the right place

Think I’ve spent far longer than I should looking at the screen grab map

Can’t figure anything out at all unfortunately
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15-05-2019, 17:00   #71
beejee
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I know I won't be



Also immigration is driving economic growth and economic growth is driving immigration in a virtuous circle.
Be happy that Ireland is such a desirable country (seriously, one of the best in EU, definitely in top 3).
I like how you italicise virtuous!

I'll tell everyone I know trapped in the housing situation that they should be happy theyre paying so much money for so little in exchange for the virtuous nature of it all
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15-05-2019, 17:01   #72
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Lot of info available from the CSO.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpub...atesapril2018/


https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpub...atesapril2017/
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15-05-2019, 17:03   #73
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Why do we need to import people from Brazil who can't speak the language to clean the toilets?? There is a huge EU that we have access to their workforce. Or Cameroonian canteen chefs?? Why and how are we importing unskilled workers that we have no need for??
Have you tried hiring a chef lately? Restaurants in Galway have restored to offering accommodation as part of the package.
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15-05-2019, 17:04   #74
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The whole thing is bonkers. Building more is not going to solve anything.
There's a shortage of housing. And you reckon building more is not going to solve anything.
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15-05-2019, 17:06   #75
victor8600
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TA good case in point is medical staff. We essentially fund the training of irish medical staff, only for them to swan off to other countries because the conditions aren't good enough here apparently.

Then we "need" to hire immigrant medical staff who'll happily take their positions instead....
Again, this has nothing to do with the immigration. Conditions for medical staff are not good enough not just because of salaries, but because of the general shambles in the HSE, with consultants raking in money while nurses and junior doctors working more hours than humanly possible. Why? Because of the government having no coherent plans. In the crisis, they have introduced a hiring freeze, basically making medical staff to work more hours and forcing any graduates to look for work elsewhere. My friend who is a doctor left for Canada because apparently, she has more chance to become a consultant in Ireland if she had worked for a while abroad -- I do not know how this works, but seems to be a reflection on the overall mismanagement of the health sector.
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