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14-05-2019, 23:24   #46
Bobblehats
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“Irish people are in the minority. And we would see that as a positive”

When people feel the freedom to go on national television and casually trot out self depracating crap like that like that you just know we’ve lost the run of ourselves. Fist trumps mouth forget politics; it’s all bollox we should have taken action a long time ago.
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14-05-2019, 23:35   #47
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It's as if they chose this screen grab of the two especially for this damn message.......


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14-05-2019, 23:38   #48
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tell me exactly when Galway invaded anyone ?
The Leinster Hurling championship.
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14-05-2019, 23:47   #49
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She was well shown up there. Doubt we will see her on TV again
No such luck.
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15-05-2019, 07:44   #50
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“Irish people are in the minority. And we would see that as a positive”

When people feel the freedom to go on national television and casually trot out self depracating crap like that like that you just know we’ve lost the run of ourselves. Fist trumps mouth forget politics; it’s all bollox we should have taken action a long time ago.
But it's more than self-deprecating though at this stage.
Irish liberals and those who support parties such as Sinn Fein have us going on the path of self-destruction. The ultimate goal of people with this mindset is to make the Irish people a minority in the whole of Ireland. Maybe we will remain the majority in the far western reaches of Connaught.

“Irish people are in the minority. And we would see that as a positive”.
Imagine if anyone said that about a minority group in Ireland who were not Irish. There would be uproar in the Irish media; it would not be acceptable.
But it's fine in this context apparently, because they were only talking about the Irish natives.

Regarding the RTE piece being balanced?
Not a chance. They interviewed a Pakastani who said that Longford is full and has no more room for migrants. This Pakastani was a doctor, so once again RTE are trying to subtly portray the notion that all the non-EU migrants arriving on your shores are doctors, engineers, and scientists and highly qualified. This is not the case.

I would also suggest that Primetime should be daring and bold and interview a different set of Irish people about their views on unlimited migration. For example, interview people leaving their workplaces and factories etc. I understand that the RTE unions would object to their members working at ungodly hours to ask these questions, but they would get a more balanced view on the subject ................ if that was the objective.
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15-05-2019, 07:59   #51
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It's rare for RTE and Irish media to discuss immigration so it was a start. Usually they just have puff pieces on the news and no discussion of any possible negatives. It was interesting to confirm the very low levels of deportation with only 180 or so deported in 2018 and huge increase of non EU immigrants since 2010 from 6000 to 30000 last year. The Irish economy is doing well now and certain sectors need immigrants but Irish politicians shouldn't continue to bury their heads in the sand on this issue as there is a lot of pressure on housing and public services due to the population growth.
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15-05-2019, 08:43   #52
mariaalice
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Only caught the intro as wanted to watch years and years on BBC, superbe and really recommend it. What struck is prime time is trying to make something that is not an issue with a lot of people into an issue, which is not good and something to be wary of.

To praphase Mirimian..imigritation has not really be an issue in irish politics why is this? they then proceded to try and fram it as an issue.
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15-05-2019, 09:11   #53
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Only caught the intro as wanted to watch years and years on BBC, superbe and really recommend it. What struck is prime time is trying to make something that is not an issue with a lot of people into an issue, which is not good and something to be wary of.

To praphase Mirimian..imigritation has not really be an issue in irish politics why is this? they then proceded to try and fram it as an issue.
I do not believe legitimate immigration has been an issue for Ireland; it has brought about many positive changes. What should be discussed is the wave of non-EU economic migration under the guise of refugees and asylum seekers, and the illegal entry of many more using false documentation, sham marriages, and those who failed to get asylum in Britain and are just crossing over the border into Ireland due to Brexit fears etc.

This is a taboo subject in Irish politics. It is only now that they are having balanced discussions on non-EU migration in other European countries, and this stems from the flood of migrants into places like Italy, Greece, and now Spain. Ireland is about 2 to 3 years behind in that discussion.
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15-05-2019, 09:11   #54
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Originally Posted by Bobblehats View Post

“Irish people are in the minority. And we would see that as a positive”

When people feel the freedom to go on national television and casually trot out self depracating crap like that like that you just know we’ve lost the run of ourselves. Fist trumps mouth forget politics; it’s all bollox we should have taken action a long time ago.
Yeah but.....
I like the idea of immigrants coming here and adapting to the Irish way of life.
The 2nd Gen Asian Lad running the Running the Restaurant is as Irish as me.
North Dublin Accent and all.

Immigration is fine if we are bringing in people that:
1: Aren't having loads of kids
2: Working
3: Not criminals
4: Integrate well into Irish culture (Mind Irish culture has seen huge changes over the last 20 years)

I think in general Asians, Europeans and North Americans adapt very well,
There are challenges/culture clashes with people from South America, Africa, the Middle East.
But I think that's starting to change too.
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15-05-2019, 09:31   #55
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“Irish people are in the minority. And we would see that as a positive”
I had a bit of a what the hell moment hearing that. How in christ's name is that a positive?? The reverse of course is saying a majority of Irish people in their own bloody country is somehow a negative. G'way to hell you muppet. He goes on to suggest we watch out for problems that may arise, yet seems completely in denial that they almost certainly will arise. He's describing the ghettoisation that always happens when immigration reaches a certain point, but this is a positive? Has this guy ever read a history book? The Professor of politics guy has and pointed out the issues that are likely to arise and is at least acknowledging it. The doctor chap sees the issues in Longford and he's a immigrant himself of many decades.

As an aside the phrase "the economy is booming" struck me. Talk about having collective amnesia. Difference being when this one wallops again, as it must, we'll have the extra social problems we didn't have with every previous one.

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What struck is prime time is trying to make something that is not an issue with a lot of people into an issue, which is not good and something to be wary of.

To praphase Mirimian..imigritation has not really be an issue in irish politics why is this? they then proceded to try and fram it as an issue.
It's not an issue in Irish politics because 1) it's early days yet and 2) it's been ignored almost entirely as an issue in mainstream Irish politics, leaving the field to cranks. Problem is that in every single country in Europe that has run this multicultural social experiment there are problems and worse they are getting. There are decades of other culture's experiences with this nonsense. It's not as if we're walking into this blind and yet to in some, if not most of our media and political class's attempt to be the Right On nation in the EU that's precisely what we've done. The very RTE piece we're talking about opened with the rise of anti immigration sentiment across Europe pretty much everywhere this social experiment has been run.
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15-05-2019, 09:46   #56
mariaalice
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I had a bit of a what the hell moment hearing that. How in christ's name is that a positive?? The reverse of course is saying a majority of Irish people in their own bloody country is somehow a negative. G'way to hell you muppet. He goes on to suggest we watch out for problems that may arise, yet seems completely in denial that they almost certainly will arise. He's describing the ghettoisation that always happens when immigration reaches a certain point, but this is a positive? Has this guy ever read a history book? The Professor of politics guy has and pointed out the issues that are likely to arise and is at least acknowledging it. The doctor chap sees the issues in Longford and he's a immigrant himself of many decades.

As an aside the phrase "the economy is booming" struck me. Talk about having collective amnesia. Difference being when this one wallops again, as it must, we'll have the extra social problems we didn't have with every previous one.

It's not an issue in Irish politics because 1) it's early days yet and 2) it's been ignored almost entirely as an issue in mainstream Irish politics, leaving the field to cranks. Problem is that in every single country in Europe that has run this multicultural social experiment there are problems and worse they are getting. There are decades of other culture's experiences with this nonsense. It's not as if we're walking into this blind and yet to in some, if not most of our media and political class's attempt to be the Right On nation in the EU that's precisely what we've done. The very RTE piece we're talking about opened with the rise of anti immigration sentiment across Europe pretty much everywhere this social experiment has been run.
Peopel will complain if it is affecting themselves look at the housing crices or the rise of SF, so if it was a genuine issue affecting people in a tangible way as opposed to they dont want anyone coming here ect, it would be an issue with the main parties and its not ( at the moment maybe) so yeah I would be warey of the mainstream media trying to shape the newes.

To sum up its not an issue for the main parties becasue it is not affecting a huge amount of people not that its a taboo subject.

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15-05-2019, 09:46   #57
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Only got to watch half of the immigration piece last night so will have to catch the second half tonight.
In regards to immigration generally - pace, volume, and quality are key factors in a successful immigration policy and social cohesion.

Eric Kaufmann has many videos on youtube where he talks about his books on same. It makes sense.

Two things that stood out to me last night:-

Parnell Street is only 7% White-Irish - along with swathes of Dublin being majority non-white Irish (this would include other non-Irish white groups though I guess - Poles etc) - but I do wonder if there is an element of white-flight here? Maybe not.

Deportations - Asylum applicants, who have actually gone through our appeal-heavy system and been given a deportation order - the State is only actioning somewhere less than 20% of those. My theory here is that that 20% are those who are picked up for minor crimes and are found to be in need of deportation or those who give up the chase and 'turn themselves in' - we don't seem to be actively looking to enforce these orders is my point.

RTE were using the figure of 12% non-Irish as a percentage of the population, someone else was using 18%. I'd be curious as to what makes up those figures. Do illegals feature? What about Asylum Seekers? I would guess its simply a figure on those granted citizenship.

If we take RTEs figure of 12% of the population are non-national (that the framing that was used?) and 25% of those on the Fingal housing list are non-national. What does that tell us? We are importing a low-skill cohort of people whose skillset does not enable them to earn enough to survive without government support? That doesn't seem like a sensible policy. Logically I would presume other areas / councils in Ireland would not have as high a number as that. But for our immigrants in Fingal to be twice as likely as the native population to be on the housing list strikes me as a recipe for disaster - in terms of abuse of the system and the perceptions of the native population and how that feeds into the rise of nativist parties across Europe.

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15-05-2019, 10:09   #58
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I suspect, and I don't have any data to back this up, that the numbers are quite a bit in excess of the CSO reported figures.

I was in a restaurant not long ago, and sitting at the table opposite me was a former TD. He was dining with (from what I got from the chatter) a senior civil servant or party apparatchik.

Being the nosy parker I am (and as I was eating alone), I couldn't resist cocking me ear to what they were saying. The TD made an observation about immigration that he reckoned the immigration figures we hear are bogus and there are far more overstayers and undocumented (to use tthat nifty neologism) in the country than we want to admit.

From this person's utterances in the media and in Leinster House, I found it eye-opening he would think such a thing in private.

For the record, I don't think immigration is either a universal good, nor a universally bad thing. But it has to be managed honestly with an open conversation.

This TD obviously did his calculations and reckoned there was more political capital in happy-clappy open border immigration policies.

(I won't be naming names before anyone asks. Don't think it's fair as I was eavesdropping)
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15-05-2019, 10:14   #59
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Just about the figures coming in and a map of Dublin where Irish are now the minority. Surprised me how many

And the usual asking the public. Posh accent dubs said bring them in. Auld lads with Northside accents said send them back
Posh Dubs say bring them in because they will never have to live alongside them.
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15-05-2019, 10:15   #60
mariaalice
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I suspect, and I don't have any data to back this up, that the numbers are quite a bit in excess of the CSO reported figures.

I was in a restaurant not long ago, and sitting on the table opposite me was a former TD. He was dining with (from what I got from the chatter) a senior civil servant or party apparatchik.

Being the nosy parker I am (and as I was eating alone), I couldn't resist cocking me ear to what they were saying. The TD made an observation about immigration that he reckoned the immigration figures we hear are bogus and there are far more overstayers and undocumented (to use tthat nifty neologism) in the country than we want to admit.

From this person's utterances in the media and in Leinster House, I found it eye-opening he would think such a thing in private.

For the record, I don't think immigration is either a universal good, nor a universally bad thing. But it has to be managed honestly with an open conversation.

This TD obviously did his calculations and reckoned there was more political capital in happy-clappy open border immigration policies.

(I won't be naming names before anyone asks. Don't think it's fair as I was eavesdropping)
All political parties have to court populism to a certing extent, so if it is not getting traction on the doors so to speak it is not an issue for the majority, nobody seem to be getting that.

I am not for wholesale immigration by the way.
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