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19-09-2020, 16:16   #1
mindhorn
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Brick wall (Cahersiveen records)

Four months on from this post, I haven't made any progress in finding the marriage cert or any more details on Bridget McCroghan/McCrohan.

What I have to work with is:

1901 census
1911 census
Death of her husband in 1914 (John O'Sullivan mentioned in the will might be their son)

I also have copies of the birth records for all five children (from 1876 to 1883). Looks like I have enough information to find a record of the marriage but can't find anything.

Oddly enough, I can't find a copy of Patrick Sullivan/O'Sullivan's death record in 1914. And I can't find a record of Bridget's death (looking at records from 1911 on).

Appreciate any help at all on this.
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20-09-2020, 13:51   #2
SophieLockhart
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The 1911 census says 43 years married so 1868, which seems quite a while before the children in 1876 but not impossible of course.

The biography of Mick O'Dwyer was written by an Owen McCrohan so it's a real name alright.

No Patrick (O) Sullivan matches from Cahirciveen from 1864-1874 anyway.

We know there was not a 100% intake of records so West Kerry might strike me as one of the places where a few entries could have slipped through the net. There is a Bridget McCrohan marrying a James Segerson in 1864 in Cahirciveen so she might have been a widow but that doesn't really help, sorry.
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20-09-2020, 14:26   #3
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Thanks for taking a look.

I saw the 43 years and thought it was a little odd since the first child was born in 1876 (and the census confirms that they only had five children so I'm not missing any records there). So my guess is that the 43 years isn't entirely accurate and more likely to be closer to 36 or so.

Might be a case that the records are just missing from back then but I thought it would be unlikely that the death record for both Patrick and Bridget would not be available post 1911.

I'll take a look at the Segerson cert and see if that leads to anything else, thanks.
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20-09-2020, 15:10   #4
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Unfortunately no luck with the Segerson search. I should have said in the opening post that Bridget was from Beginish Island so that appears to be a different Bridget McCrohan (and couldn't find any record of a Segerson marrying a Patrick O'Sullivan).
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20-09-2020, 22:51   #5
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Looks like, Bridget O'Sullivan died in 1922, Caherciveen, stated age 82. Irishgenealogy.ie Group id - 3407005, death registered by son-in-law Con Barry. and PATRICK OSULLIVAN's death in 1914 was not registered till 1915, Caherciveen, stated age 74, registered by daughter Julia.
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21-09-2020, 10:44   #6
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Yes that's it well done. He was a publican which confirms it.

It's bizarre that when you search for 'patrick o'sullivan', with the apostrophe, nothing shows up, but when you leave out the apostrophe, and the space, the correct entry does appear. They really should sort that out.
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21-09-2020, 19:28   #7
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That's great, thanks for this! Never would have thought of searching for OSULLIVAN. Didn't realise he was a publican either, knew he had a shop but obviously changed after 1911. Do you know what's written under 'Publican'?

And thanks for finding Bridget's cert. I think I came across this before but dismissed it because of the mention of publican. Seeing Con Barry's name confirms it's definitely her too.

I'm going to have another good look this evening at the marriage records and details on Patrick's or Bridget's family. Both births are around 1840-1845 so maybe that's as much as I'll be able to figure out.
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21-09-2020, 21:15   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieLockhart View Post
It's bizarre that when you search for 'patrick o'sullivan', with the apostrophe, nothing shows up, but when you leave out the apostrophe, and the space, the correct entry does appear. They really should sort that out.
Yes, when searching the Irish Genealogy website for names like O'Sullivan it's essential to try all variations.

As an example I'm interested in O'Neill's from Longford and according to Irish Genealogy there were no "O'Neill" deaths in Ballymahon registration district in the 1800's.

However, for the same period and location there were 23 "ONeill" deaths and one "O Neill" death.

Technology is wonderful but it's only as good as the humans that create and maintain it.
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21-09-2020, 23:41   #9
SophieLockhart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermy View Post
Yes, when searching the Irish Genealogy website for names like O'Sullivan it's essential to try all variations.

As an example I'm interested in O'Neill's from Longford and according to Irish Genealogy there were no "O'Neill" deaths in Ballymahon registration district in the 1800's.

However, for the same period and location there were 23 "ONeill" deaths and one "O Neill" death.

Technology is wonderful but it's only as good as the humans that create and maintain it.
And yet, for some names they seem to have a workaround. I've searched for 'Ann' and the results Anne, Annie and even Hannah have showed up. Similar with variations of Bridget. And Eliza and Lizzie when searching for Elizabeth. Strange.
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22-09-2020, 00:14   #10
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And yet, for some names they seem to have a workaround. I've searched for 'Ann' and the results Anne, Annie and even Hannah have showed up. Similar with variations of Bridget. And Eliza and Lizzie when searching for Elizabeth. Strange.
And that's part of the problem - searching for Ann may return results for Anne and Annie but it may not - hence my recommendation that you try all variants if your initial search doesn't return what you expect to find.
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22-09-2020, 10:07   #11
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Yes, I recently had issues with it not recognising Linehan and Lenihan as variants of each other.
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22-09-2020, 14:17   #12
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I rely on the wildcard symbol alot - eg. For O prefix name use o*sullivan, same for Mc surmans - I even use two or more wildcards in some searches. I had a good look for their marriage too, but it beat me, sorry :-(
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22-09-2020, 21:30   #13
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Thanks for taking the time to give it a look. I feel like I've tried everything at this stage. Checked FamilySearch, subscribed to FMP and Ancestry, trawled through irishgenealogy and registers.nli. Not sure what options are left at this stage apart from maybe seeing if there's some historical society in the area who may be able to help.
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23-09-2020, 12:09   #14
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Well, it's not what you want to hear, but you may have to accept that you can't find what you're looking for.
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26-09-2020, 08:28   #15
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True but I'll persist with it for another bit. Thanks to another user here I was able to see both of death notices and a small obituary for Patrick.

So I think there's still some information out there but I've probably exhausted what's available online.
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