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Open Fire to Multifuel Stove - Boiler Stove or Not

  • 23-09-2020 4:48pm
    #1
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭


    We've bought a house in the last year and are getting around to upgrading the heating system now. At the moment, there's an oil stove in the kitchen (Harmony 1 oil stove) and an open fire in the sitting room. When we bought the house (70's bungalow), the stove was plumbed to 2 radiators. We ran radiators to each of the rooms before moving in. The stove that's there currently will heat the radiators (only 8 in total), but needs to be running on full for them to get hot - they wouldn't be roasting like they would for a boiler and it takes about an hour on full to get up to heat. Our plan at the moment is as follows:

    1. Replace the oil stove entirely with a condenser boiler. Oil stove will be removed.

    2. Replace the open fireplace with a multi fuel stove - we like having a fire in the sitting room, but are wary that we're losing a lot of heat up it that a stove should solve. We'd have a fire on most days.

    So the question is, is it worth considering a boiler stove in place of the fireplace? My gut feeling was no, but I've spoken to a few people that swear by them since. Someone mentioned that the guts of the pipework would be there already (including pump etc) from the oil stove that's coming out and it'd just be a simple matter of plumbing it in, but I don't know enough to know if that's completely oversimplifying it. Looking for thoughts from people who have boiler stoves and who are familiar with what it takes to fit them.


Comments

  • #2
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Anyone at all?


  • #3
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Bawnmore wrote: »
    Anyone at all?

    It is not a simple matter. A solid fuel boiler stove requires a completely different setup from an oil setup. The reason is that a solid fuel stove can’t be controlled the way an oil heat source can. This gives rise to safety considerations.

    My suggestion would be to get some local expertise from plumbers who are experienced with this work and who will stand over it.


  • #4
    upupup
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭upupup


    Bawnmore wrote: »
    We've bought a house in the last year and are getting around to upgrading the heating system now. At the moment, there's an oil stove in the kitchen (Harmony 1 oil stove) and an open fire in the sitting room. When we bought the house (70's bungalow), the stove was plumbed to 2 radiators. We ran radiators to each of the rooms before moving in. The stove that's there currently will heat the radiators (only 8 in total), but needs to be running on full for them to get hot - they wouldn't be roasting like they would for a boiler and it takes about an hour on full to get up to heat. Our plan at the moment is as follows:

    1. Replace the oil stove entirely with a condenser boiler. Oil stove will be removed.

    2. Replace the open fireplace with a multi fuel stove - we like having a fire in the sitting room, but are wary that we're losing a lot of heat up it that a stove should solve. We'd have a fire on most days.

    So the question is, is it worth considering a boiler stove in place of the fireplace? My gut feeling was no, but I've spoken to a few people that swear by them since. Someone mentioned that the guts of the pipework would be there already (including pump etc) from the oil stove that's coming out and it'd just be a simple matter of plumbing it in, but I don't know enough to know if that's completely oversimplifying it. Looking for thoughts from people who have boiler stoves and who are familiar with what it takes to fit them.

    I had an oil burner in the shed heating 8 rads for years but when the burner was old and needed to be replaced I got a boiler stove and plumbed it in myself.As you said,the guts of the pipe work was there already so it took very little pipework.The important issue is pipe work to the attic tank in case it overheats if there is a power cut because you can't turn off a stove.
    You can also have a condensing boiler and a boiler stove which allows you to be lazy sometimes and not light the stove or a condensing boiler and a free standing stove.It depends on your budget


  • #5
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    It is not a simple matter. A solid fuel boiler stove requires a completely different setup from an oil setup. The reason is that a solid fuel stove can’t be controlled the way an oil heat source can. This gives rise to safety considerations.

    My suggestion would be to get some local expertise from plumbers who are experienced with this work and who will stand over it.

    Thanks - we have a plumber coming in next week to talk about adding the condenser boiler, so will ask him what he thinks.
    I had an oil burner in the shed heating 8 rads for years but when the burner was old and needed to be replaced I got a boiler stove and plumbed it in myself.As you said,the guts of the pipe work was there already so it took very little pipework.The important issue is pipe work to the attic tank in case it overheats if there is a power cut because you can't turn off a stove.
    You can also have a condensing boiler and a boiler stove which allows you to be lazy sometimes and not light the stove or a condensing boiler and a free standing stove.It depends on your budget

    As far as I understand, the pipework currently exists for the stove for an overflow into a small tank in the attic in the case that the circulating pump fails. The 2 options you've given there (condenser boiler + boiler stove or freestanding stove + condenser boiler) are exactly what we're aiming for. Just don't know if it would be worth the effort to look down the boiler stove route or not.


  • #6
    upupup
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭upupup


    Bawnmore wrote: »
    Thanks - we have a plumber coming in next week to talk about adding the condenser boiler, so will ask him what he thinks.



    As far as I understand, the pipework currently exists for the stove for an overflow into a small tank in the attic in the case that the circulating pump fails. The 2 options you've given there (condenser boiler + boiler stove or freestanding stove + condenser boiler) are exactly what we're aiming for. Just don't know if it would be worth the effort to look down the boiler stove route or not.

    condensing boiler+boiler stove also needs a new cylinder so with all the extras it will be more expensive than the non boiler stove option


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  • #7
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Talked to plumber about this today and he recently did the same setup in his own house. Gist of it is a new cylinder alright. Waiting on a price and will make a call then.


  • #8
    monseiur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭monseiur


    Not exactly answering your question but seeing that it's a seventies build consider upgrading insulation in attic & walls, if budget allows consider upgrading windows to triple glazed.
    Check SEAI website there may be a grant for the boiler upgrade you're considering.
    M.


  • #9
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    monseiur wrote: »
    Not exactly answering your question but seeing that it's a seventies build consider upgrading insulation in attic & walls, if budget allows consider upgrading windows to triple glazed.
    Check SEAI website there may be a grant for the boiler upgrade you're considering.
    M.

    We've cavity wall insulation and attic insulation being done in 2 weeks. We've been here since this time last year and just getting around it it now. Wasn't too bad last winter, but we'd the stove going non stop.


  • #10
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,192 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    monseiur wrote: »
    Not exactly answering your question but seeing that it's a seventies build consider upgrading insulation in attic & walls, if budget allows consider upgrading windows to triple glazed.
    Check SEAI website there may be a grant for the boiler upgrade you're considering.
    M.

    No more grants for fossil fuel boiler upgrades.
    OP, I would not do the boiler stove, what about a wood pellet stove, can be plumbed

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #11
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    No more grants for fossil fuel boiler upgrades.
    OP, I would not do the boiler stove, what about a wood pellet stove, can be plumbed

    The reasoning behind the boiler stove is that we have a pretty unlimited supply of turf that costs nothing available to us. Is there any reason to choose a pellet stove over a boiler stove?


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  • #12
    rn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭rn


    A very fortunate situation to have so much turf and the only circumstances I would consider a boiler stove. Boiler stoves are significantly less effective as heaters and consume a lot more fuel. And turf produces a hell of a lot of ashes.

    My own recommendation is a high performance oil burner, you can't beat the convenience of oil heating v solid fuel. Add TRV to all rads in house. Then I'd top that up with a room heater stove plus extra insulation. And you could consider solar PV to heat water for the good 6 months of the year and reduce the need for oil.


  • #13
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    rn wrote: »
    A very fortunate situation to have so much turf and the only circumstances I would consider a boiler stove. Boiler stoves are significantly less effective as heaters and consume a lot more fuel. And turf produces a hell of a lot of ashes.

    My own recommendation is a high performance oil burner, you can't beat the convenience of oil heating v solid fuel. Add TRV to all rads in house. Then I'd top that up with a room heater stove plus extra insulation. And you could consider solar PV to heat water for the good 6 months of the year and reduce the need for oil.

    We'll be having an oil burner fitted regardless - I'm still humming and hawing about boiler vs non boiler but I'll wait until a quote for the work comes in before deciding.


  • #14
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Picking this back up, we have our 1st quote. Have a few questions that people hopefully may be able to advise on. We're waiting on a quote currently for the same work but not including the requirements (cylinder etc) to facilitate the boiler stove. The quote is 4k to include:

    - Fitting grant condenser boiler (not replacing as none exists currently).
    - Wiring above.
    - 7 TRV's one for each radiator, not smart TRVs's)
    - 2 central heating zones
    - 1 room thermostat, 1 cylinder thermostat
    - Move our oil tank a few feet over

    Few questions:

    - Does that sounds reasonable? We'll be getting some additional quotes, but does above sound in the right ballpark?
    - Should we be considering the heating control grant?
    - I'm assuming we should know what boiler specifically for our own knowledge?
    - Is a single price (e.g. not itemized) the usual way to receive quotes like this? I have no experience with having this type of work priced, so I don't know what's standard here at all really.

    On top of above, we'd be talking about the following costs I'm assuming:

    - Buying a boiler stove
    - Having this fitted (flu needed?)
    - Whatever work we want done in removing the existing brick fireplace and having plastered/mantle etc


  • #15
    Blowheads
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭Blowheads


    If you are putting in a stove to replace to open fireplace AND the pipework is there then put in a boiler stove. If you going to be lighting it regularly then you will appreciate getting the benefit of it throughout the house

    Or another way, if you put in a dry stove, you'll suit there one day wishing you put in the boiler.


  • #16
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Blowheads wrote: »
    If you are putting in a stove to replace to open fireplace AND the pipework is there then put in a boiler stove. If you going to be lighting it regularly then you will appreciate getting the benefit of it throughout the house

    Or another way, if you put in a dry stove, you'll suit there one day wishing you put in the boiler.

    Thanks for the opinion. We're flip flopping between both options at the moment. Waiting on quotes for a non boiler setup and will make a call on what makes most sense after that. The 2 things putting us off the boiler stove are upfront cost and the possibility that it may be difficult to keep the living room toasty if the majority of the heat is being transferred to the radiators.


  • #17
    Blowheads
    Registered Users Posts: 429 ✭✭Blowheads


    You should measure the room and the heating requirement. A boiler stove still puts great into the room as well as the rest of the house. A poorly sized dry stove could melt ye, need the doors open and the rest of the house getting nothing


  • #18
    shanec1928
    Registered Users Posts: 4,123 ✭✭✭shanec1928


    Bawnmore wrote: »
    Thanks for the opinion. We're flip flopping between both options at the moment. Waiting on quotes for a non boiler setup and will make a call on what makes most sense after that. The 2 things putting us off the boiler stove are upfront cost and the possibility that it may be difficult to keep the living room toasty if the majority of the heat is being transferred to the radiators.
    I’d say you’ll have no problem keeping the sitting room warm. If you light a fire most days you might as well have it heating more than one room and get the benefit of having the fire lit.


  • #19
    upupup
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭upupup


    Bawnmore wrote: »
    Thanks for the opinion. We're flip flopping between both options at the moment. Waiting on quotes for a non boiler setup and will make a call on what makes most sense after that. The 2 things putting us off the boiler stove are upfront cost and the possibility that it may be difficult to keep the living room toasty if the majority of the heat is being transferred to the radiators.

    Make sure you have a rad in the living room.This will double the heat and can be turned off if it gets too hot.I have this set up and have the rad and boiler stove giving heat at the start of the night but usually turn off the rad when temps hit the high 20's


  • #20
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,209 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    upupup wrote: »
    Make sure you have a rad in the living room.This will double the heat and can be turned off if it gets too hot.I have this set up and have the rad and boiler stove giving heat at the start of the night but usually turn off the rad when temps hit the high 20's
    A thermostatic radiator valve would work great on that rad and save the need for turning on and off.



    Would only need opening up if you have oil/gas heating on and a thermostat in that room.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



  • #21
    upupup
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭upupup


    Wearb wrote: »
    A thermostatic radiator valve would work great on that rad and save the need for turning on and off.



    Would only need opening up if you have oil/gas heating on and a thermostat in that room.

    Yes I must fit one as turning it off and on will eventually result in a leak.This has happened before.


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