Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.
Wasted Heritage Buildings - Your nominations
Options
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
A prob with groups like an Taisce is that they are administrators and not enthusiasts.
Take Swords Castle
http://homepage.eircom.net/~aroundswords/swordshistory.htm
Swords Castle
Construction work on the castle began in the 12th Century with the appointment of the first Norman bishop of Dublin, John Comyn. The castle was founded on the Well associated with St. Colmcille and is prominently situated in the Ward River Valley Linear Park. The castle is unusual in that, with the perimetre of 305 meters, it is far larger than normal for an Irish Castle and was constructed in piecemeal fashion over a period of 400 years. As well as being the home of the Archbishops of Dublin, it is said that parliaments were held in the great hall of the castle. In 1583 Sir Henry Sydney, the Land Deputy, settled Dutch refugees in the Castle, who repaired and extended the dwelling. By 1641 Swords Castle was chosen as a rendezvous for the Anglo-Irish families of the Pale. Currently the castle is the only fortified residence of the Archbishop of Dublin to survive in a reasonable condition. As it stands at the moment Swords Castle presents a vivid snap-shot of 15th century life, comprising a gatehouse, apartments for knights, a chapel, banqueting hall, the all-important Archbishops apartments and two large towers, one of which was the home of the area's constable and his family.
Swords Castle was lying idle for a number of years before it was bought from the Cobbe family by Dublin County Council in 1985. The castle and the surrounding lands were acquired for the provision of the Ward River Valley Regional Park. The story of the castle before was one of neglect.
The Parks Department carried out a number of studies, including a conservation study of the entire area. They then undertook a tourism study before submitting a plan to Fingal County Council in early 1995. In March 1995 a plan for the phased restoration of the castle was approved by the Council and FAS, along with the parks Department, started the work shortly afterwards. The project is being sponsored by the Swords Castle Restoration Committee.
The council commissioned a number of historical and archaeological studies of the castle and it environs with a view to its restoration as a major cultural, educational and tourist centre, similar to Malahide and Ardgillan Castles.
The castle contains a tourism information centre at which visitors can find out more information about the castle and its history, is open from Monday to Friday.
Top of Page
There is a local community festival who run an annual festival
Occassional years they can get access to the Castle grounds and run a medieval gig with weekend knights etc and the whole shebang a proper Renaissance Fair like you get in the US and for kids. A real class act and would do it every year but the Council & Commitee wont cooperate.
Again, a great location for the weekend market etc or Paddy's Day Parade.
Now, I live near there and am familiar with Malahide Castle and Ardgillan Castles that are restored but are as boring a f*** IMO and if they are filling a need it is catered for. Swords Castle will never be what they are as it never was in the first place.
Council's do sewage , roads and water and drains and are good at that sort of thing. There are other things they are not good at cos the think and act like Councils.
Whats wrong with having it available to the local hippies and weekend warriors car boot sale etc and local community groups as an amenity.Local interest groups do things for free.
It is stone walls around an enclosed field/park and having survived since 1315 having being built for seiges and stuff .
Its things like that that build interest and a community and its a cool location.
A generation have grown up in the area and would know it as a place thats always locked and will have been locked out from a great amenity and heritage location by administrators and rate collectors.
And Ardgillan may look great but Donadea that is barely preserved is tons more fun and probably gets more use by locals etc.
We are not the UK and would not have the money to do the whole national trust thing.0 -
Advertisement
-
A prob with groups like an Taisce is that they are administrators and not enthusiasts.
Sorry, what?
Do you really know anything about what An Taisce actually do?? That's some big brush you have loaded with tar.Swords castle, yadayada.
Do you know of a group that has asked to run an event and has been refused, or are you just presuming that. Why don't you organise an event?We are not the UK and would not have the money to do the whole national trust thing
Let me introduce you to an organisation that is the National Trust for Ireland..
An Taisce..
The National Trust for Ireland :rolleyes:
I see a theme here, those who want it all to be different and wonderful, but apparantly those who campaign for change, lobby for protection and try to change policy get jeered from the sidelines. :mad:0 -
You can call it what you like but An Taisce is far from being a National Trust for Ireland. If you want to believe that you can. It's a bit like people who think that our environment is being looked after because we have something called the Environmental Protection Agency. If you're replying to this please don't use multi-quote.
0 -
Sorry, what? Do you really know anything about what An Taisce actually do?? That's some big brush you have loaded with tar.
its my opinion based on my observations.
take the Saltee Islands in private ownership of the Neale Family since the 1940's and that works
An Taisce dont seem to generate enthusiasm or restoration etc within the means of and whats approptiate to ireland.Let me introduce you to an organisation that is the National Trust for Ireland..
Prententious or wha :pac:
It is not the National Trust and of course I do not expect it to be.Do you know of a group that has asked to run an event and has been refused, or are you just presuming that. Why don't you organise an event?
Yes I do know them and asked why the event was not annual and thats what I was told.
I cant name them as it was a private conversation and that would not be fair on anybody.
My main point is that when you transfer "ownership" of planning and control from local communities then the can cease to be an amenity and become a monument.
EDIT - And I am not jeering. A country like Ireland does not have the resourses and has to be more inventive in heritage preservation and use.
Thats not controvercial at all.0 -
@Judgement DayJudgement Day wrote: »You can call it what you like but An Taisce is far from being a National Trust for Ireland. If you want to believe that you can. It's a bit like people who think that our environment is being looked after because we have something called the Environmental Protection Agency.
I'll dignify that piece of nonsense with a link
http://internationaltrusts.org/membership/founder-members/
You seem to think I'm making this up.
It seem your replies now consist of taking issue with how I post??If you're replying to this please don't use multi-quote.
I find it easier to respond to each point made by the poster if I do this, you clearly don't bother retracting or admitting you were incorrect, you just find something else to find fault with...and frankly I'll post how I please within the rules..thank you very much.
@CDfm
You mention the Saltees and I agree that the work done by the family is commendable, but what is your point?? It's quite easy to keep small island preserved as a sanctuary.
If you want to take mainland example with greater pressures take a look at Mullaghmore in Clare;The impact of new rural housing in Clare is one of declamatory vulgarity. Mullaghmore alone survives, not only as an example of a successful conservation campaign (supported by An Taisce) but as a reminder that its destruction was planned with aggressive consistency by the very agencies charged with protecting it: the OPW and the various departments of arts, culture and whatever you're having yourself. Mullaghmore, in fact, is the exception which proves the rule: join An Taisce before it's too late.
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/all-good-citizens-should-join-an-taisce-before-its-too-late-500545.htmlAn Taisce dont seem to generate enthusiasm or restoration etc within the means of and whats approptiate to ireland.
I think I just showed that above that they do.Prententious or wha
Really? Do you think that "De Trust Yoke" would be better
It is not the National Trust and of course I do not expect it to be.
So it owns property in trust for the Irish nation, but is not the (Irish) National Trust - you do understand that it isnt the (UK) National Trust. Is that what is confusing you...?A country like Ireland does not have the resourses and has to be more inventive in heritage preservation and use.
Thats not controvercial at all.
I'm not sure what you mean by inventive and not having the resources, could you explain?0 -
MadsL - According to you 'It's quite easy to keep small island preserved as a sanctuary.' but yet An Taisce find it hard to keep a small marsh preserved as a sanctuary?
I'm not disagreeing that An Taisce is the self-styled National Trust for Ireland but it is failing in its duties. No need to provide anymore links either - I have probably been involved in heritage conservation longer than you and don't need any further lessons.
The Irish Landmark Trust http://www.irishlandmark.com/ is a shining example of what An Taisce should/could be like.
Wicklow Head Lighthouse - a Landmark Trust property.
The Irish Landmark Trust Ltd. was founded in 1992 with a remit to save interesting and unusual 'landmark' properties throughout the whole of Ireland and to re-use them, once restored, as good quality self catering holiday accommodation. At its heart is the principle that the structure iself is of prime importance and any interventions must respect this.
Irish Landmark is recognised as a charity, and is incorporated as a not-for-profit company in the Republic of Ireland and, separately, in Northern Ireland.
Our buildings are varied, from lighthouses, to gatelodges, to tower houses, to school houses, to mews, which - because of their individuality, even eccentricity - are unsuitable as permanent residences. But often in remote and delightful parts of the country, they are ideal retreats for those seeking a short stay in fascinating and sensitively restored buildings.
The benefits of our work are enjoyed by more than our visitors. The morale of a village can be lifted by the rehabilitation of its most interesting landmark building. Visitors introduce tourist revenue. Craftsmen and craftswomen are given scope to revive traditional skills. And wasteful decay or demolition gives way to the sensible recycling of Ireland's valuable architectural stock.
Further, we see ourselves as problem solvers. Owners, private and public, with responsibility for important buildings are faced with the dual task of restoring and finding sustainable uses for them. By taking a building on lease we are enabled to restore it, and can sustain it on short-term lettings until the expiry of the lease (typically, 50 years) when the fully restored building reverts to the owner.
To date we have restored 19 interesting and architecturally important buildings across Ireland, north and south. Funding for this work came from the ERDF, The Heritage Council, the National Millennium Committee, Udaras na Gaeltachta, the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government; and from the Environment and Heritage Services section of the Department of the Environment of Northern Ireland, the UK Heritage Lottery Fund for Northern Ireland, The Architectural Heritage Fund, and from local authorities in the regions where our properties are located. In addition, significant private funds assist both capital and administrative costs.
Their newsletter http://www.irishlandmark.com/SupporterNews/01_Supporter_News_July_2010.pdf is a model of an inspiring production which would encourage you to donate or get involved. There is no earthly reason why An Taisce could not have been doing something similar for decades but between infighting, career building and general ineptitude they are in the doldrums. I was there but I'm not prepared to name names either.
In Northern Ireland the UK National Trust even own a pub amongst their properties http://www.crownbar.com/ - why could An Taisce not have gone this road? Anyway, let's drop it as we aren't going to agree and nothing is going to change.
0 -
Advertisement
-
@CDfm
You mention the Saltees and I agree that the work done by the family is commendable, but what is your point?? It's quite easy to keep small island preserved as a sanctuary.
If you want to take mainland example with greater pressures take a look at Mullaghmore in Clare;
Actually it wasn't originally as the family had to challenge claims to pay rates on it as agriculrural land even though it is a nature reserve.http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/all-good-citizens-should-join-an-taisce-before-its-too-late-500545.html
I think I just showed that above that they do.
Its an editorial piece by a fan and it does not really put an argument against fish farms or wind turbines -if there is one to be made.Really? Do you think that "De Trust Yoke" would be better
I actually do not know, but, I think calling it the Irish National Trust is confusing as to what its powers are and function is versus the National Trust in the UK.So it owns property in trust for the Irish nation, but is not the (Irish) National Trust - you do understand that it isnt the (UK) National Trust. Is that what is confusing you...?
Intentionally confused maybe.
It should cut its cloth by its measure.I'm not sure what you mean by inventive and not having the resources, could you explain?
I think it is very grandiose and at this stage should have established a niche with other state agencies. I mean, you report a squabble with Corks local authority.
Thats hardly being on top of things.0 -
An Taisce is the self-styled National Trust for Ireland
An Taisce has since inception been consistantly been lobbying for the tax status and state recognition given to other countries National Trusts, not just for itself but for all bodies involved in trust activities. Given that no trust legislation has been forthcoming, what else do you expect An Taisce to do - it can't pass legislation itself.find it hard to keep a small marsh preserved as a sanctuary?
..and I keep asking you what you see as the problem at Booterstown and you never answer that question. For the love of god, if you think there is a problem with BM then what is it!?! You saying that AT is not doing x without telling me what x is..
The Irish Landmark Trust is a fantastic organisation, as are the likes of The Georgian Society, and they have a very valuable role to play in preserving Ireland's historic fabric. At the end of the day however, it is a hell of lot easier to fund raise to preserve a lovely building than it is to fight overdevelopment, one-off housing, dereliction by design, illegally granted planning permissions and the like and generally be the watchdog that An Taisce has a statatory role to perform under the Planning and Development Acts. Of course An Taisce would like to do more, doesn't that go without saying.
Re; the crown pub - you are asking why could An Taisce not have gone this road??
Are you now criticising An Taisce because it doesn't own a pub? :eek:
The UK National Trust has income of £400million plus, if someone were to donate a pub of historic interest and of conservation merit then of course AT would look to see if it were viable to go down this road. But they haven't and I cannot see anyone doing it. Again your point is less than clear.nothing is going to change
Not with this attitude no, you are right.
The fact is however things have changed, quite dramatically. An Taisce has consistantly stuck it's head above the parapet to warn Ireland of the direction it is heading, despite all the ill-informed and ungrounded criticism. Even today the EU is getting tough on an issue that AT has been warning the state of for decades - the EU has had enough dillydally from the Irish State and is now levying fines of some €4k a day.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0519/septictanks.html
To be honest, Judgement Day you sound fairly typical of a disgruntled member of any volunteer organisation, someone said something sharp to you once many years ago, you went off in a huff and have held the grudge against the organisation ever since. It seems to me that you find lots of nebulous reasons not to like the organisation, but you never give specifics when challenged. You say you have probably been involved in heritage conservation longer than me and don't need any further lessons. That's great. Which organisation do you volunteer with or support financially?0 -
-
Fair enough, I meant that it has a very defined boundary and 'border' by nature of being an island.Actually it wasn't originally as the family had to challenge claims to pay rates on it as agriculrural land even though it is a nature reserve. .Its an editorial piece by a fan and it does not really put an argument against fish farms or wind turbines -if there is one to be made.
Errr, I was refering to the AT property at Mullaghmore? I wasn't trying to make any arguments about fish farms or wind turbines. My point was that AT have successful fought to preserve this landscape on the mainland.I actually do not know, but, I think calling it the Irish National Trust is confusing as to what its powers are and function is versus the National Trust in the UK.
Intentionally confused maybe.
It is not called the Irish National Trust - it is "An Taisce: The National trust for Ireland" what is confusing about that? I don't think the National Trust for Jersey or
the National Trust of Slovakia get confused or have intentional confused their names. Isn't the clue in the name.It should cut its cloth by its measure.
I think it is very grandiose
What exactly does this even mean??? AT like most charities of course "cut its cloth by its measure" - it can't spend what it doesn't have?? Can you be more specific?.....and at this stage should have established a niche with other state agencies. I mean, you report a squabble with Corks local authority. Thats hardly being on top of things.
Did you actually read that article? This isn't a 'squabble', it is a legal planning process required under Irish and EU law, An Taisce has a statatory role (even though a charity - is NOT a state agency) in that legal process. An Taisce took that case because of the consistant pressure being applied to Irish town and business by profiteering developers in breach of any form of coherant retail strategy and planning on the part of the councils. Here is a quote that says it better than I can...Of the approx 30,000 applications nationally per year during recent years, An Taisce appealed around 300 of these to An Bord Pleanála. This is around 1% of decisions granted by local authorities. In making its decisions, An Bord Pleanála is guided and must be guided by the relevant National and EU Laws and Local, Regional or National Plans and Guidelines. Therefore, to be successful, an appeal must show that the planning authority’s decision is not correctly in compliance with these laws, plans and guidelines.
An Taisce only takes cases where it believes that correct process has not been followed and is successful in 80% of these cases, again this is mainly because the local authority has not properly complied with its own Development Plan or Regional or National Guidelines in the first place.
The Planning Laws and guidelines are either those of the Country that have been passed through the Dail in the usual democratic way or are EU based laws that the Country has signed up to. They are there to protect the Environment for the good of all the citizens. They are there to protect the Natural Environment on which we all rely from harm and to ensure that development is carried out in a proper and orderly fashion that will allow communities a sustainable future. They are not anti-rural, anti-development, anti-community and anti-jobs, they are there to ensure that the common good is not hijacked.0 -
-
-
-
-
-
I know I'm responding to an out of date post but Ballyfin house is most certainly not abandoned. I had the great pleasure of visiting there this summer and can tell you it is absolutely stunning. It has been fully restored to it's former glory and is operating as a high end exclusive hotel (with premium prices to match). It is a shame that such a beautiful place is not open to the public but better restored and privately owned then left to rot like so many unfortunate places around the country. The website below will give you a clue to what it looks like now. www.ballyfin.comballyfin house in co. Laois, probably the finest neo classical house in the country, used to belong to some relgious order went up fpr sale, offered to the government who passed it over. this fine house is now lying empty half way through a conversion to a luxury hotel which has been abandoned, its a crime..
0 -
Advertisement
-
-
Is this the one? http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/home-garden/will-of-irons-inside-jeremy-irons-west-cork-castle-1549241.htmlDid any one see Nationwide on Friday?. They showed a Castle that had been restored. It was very nice. Anyone know of other Castles/Big Houses around the country that had been restored from ruins? Jeremy Irons orange castle ! :eek: comes to mind. Any others?
http://www.jeremy-irons.com/press/archive/56.html 0 -
jonniebgood1 wrote: »
Thats the one. Couldn't remember the name of it. Anyway do you know of others that have been restored?0 -
Killua Castle nr.Clonmellon, Co.Westmeath is being restored - gradually - full story here: http://archiseek.com/2010/back-from-brink-thanks-to-bankers-bonus/
0 -
-
The castle on Nationwide was Killahara castle
Theres also Brackloon Castle
And Barryscourt
http://www.irelandforvisitors.com/gallery/blcasph_barryscourt.htm0 -
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
Theres also Brackloon Castle
They've done a fine restoration. Is that smooth finish on the walls faithful to the time it was built? I like it. I wonder what it looks like inside?
I did some searches online and I found an ad from 2008 that described it as a ruin. (its number nine):
http://www.intlistings.com/articles/2008/want-to-live-in-a-castle-10-great-options-for-250k-or-less/0
Advertisement