How to get published

desolate sun · 09-09-2010 9:38pm

EileenG wrote: »

What is your take on an agent charging a reading fee? A friend of mine submitted three chapters to an agent in England, and got back a request for the whole thing, plus a cheque for £69 as a reading fee.

Not trying to answer a question for Eoin but I thought a general rule for writers is money comes TO them not FROM them. I think an alarm bell would go off if I was charged a reading fee. Just my opinion though.

Eoinp · 13-09-2010 10:08am

EileenG wrote: »

What is your take on an agent charging a reading fee? A friend of mine submitted three chapters to an agent in England, and got back a request for the whole thing, plus a cheque for £69 as a reading fee.

In general I think you should avoid an agent who is requesting a fee for reading (if they are suggesting this is a way to get representation). By which I mean if they say pay me x and I'll read your submission with a view to maybe taking it on, that's not on.

If however they offer a reading service that they split from their rep service, that's another issue. I know some very respected agents who offer both services, but make clear that the reading service is JUST a reading service. They'll never charge a submission to the agency service a fee, but equally they'll not supply feedback if they reject the submission (and indeed why should they, that'd be a free professional service).

So if the two services are clearly separate then that's fair enough, if not then I'd avoid the agency.
Eoin

EileenG · 13-09-2010 4:10pm

Thanks. No, there was no suggestion that the reading fee covered anything except reading with a view to representation, and certainly no suggestion that she'd get feedback from it.

mad_iguana · 18-09-2010 2:23pm

Hi Eoin,
Really enjoyed reading your answers so far; lots of food for thought and pointers towards what to do / not to do.

I've been working on a novel for a few years now, and recently have received some encouragement to complete it from friends and family. Even if it's not published, I'm enjoying the process anyway, but I had a question that you might be able to assist with.

My novel is a fantasy novel and, in common with many of the genre, it's quite long - I've written about 90,000 words so far, and am a little over a third of the way through.

Is it worthwhile sending this amount of the book into an agent or a publisher, or should I wait until the whole story is completed? From your previous answers, I'd assume that the whole thing should be completed, but I wondered if this particular genre - with the length that a story can extend to - might have different "rules"?

Thanks for your time and all the great advice you've given so far!

mad_iguana

EileenG · 18-09-2010 6:31pm

Don't want to preempt Eoin, but I'm certain that you should finish it before you go near a publisher or agent.

Apart from anything else, there is no guarantee that you will actually get round to finishing it, so you've wasted their time. If it's so good that your unpolished first draft catches their eye and they want to see the rest, you don't have it to send, so you'll piss them off.

Good novels are not written, they are rewritten. There's a long journey from a completed first draft to a polished manuscript that you can honestly say is as good as you can get it.

I also suspect that if your novel is going to be 300,000 words, you will have a much harder job selling it than if it were a more marketable length.

It might be possible to interest a publisher in a unfinished non-fiction book, but only if it has great potential and you have an established track recorder as a writer.

ohjustwhisht · 18-09-2010 8:05pm

I dont know if this will help but I entered a copetition on poetry.com and I won and was published. I won all these awards and I now have 2 peoms published. It probably wont help but try it!!

Eoinp · 21-09-2010 6:35pm

mad_iguana wrote: »

Hi Eoin,
Really enjoyed reading your answers so far; lots of food for thought and pointers towards what to do / not to do.

I've been working on a novel for a few years now, and recently have received some encouragement to complete it from friends and family. Even if it's not published, I'm enjoying the process anyway, but I had a question that you might be able to assist with.

My novel is a fantasy novel and, in common with many of the genre, it's quite long - I've written about 90,000 words so far, and am a little over a third of the way through.

Is it worthwhile sending this amount of the book into an agent or a publisher, or should I wait until the whole story is completed? From your previous answers, I'd assume that the whole thing should be completed, but I wondered if this particular genre - with the length that a story can extend to - might have different "rules"?

Thanks for your time and all the great advice you've given so far!

mad_iguana

I'm pretty sure I've covered this before.

Don't submit unfinished books to publishers and I would argue don't send them to agents either, send only finished work.

Also as Eileen has said, 300K might be a bit ambitious for a first fantasy/sci-fi novel.

All the best,
Eoin

bigmoma22 · 22-09-2010 3:15pm

I am going to self publish an illustrated childrens book, few hundred copies only. This thread is great in getting a lot of info. My question might be more suitable for another thread, but here it is:

Does one need to be a registered company in order to sell own books through different chanells? Re tax, does one need to submit exemption form with any amount or just if income above certain amount?

Once I decide to get an ISBN, if I do, do I need to be registered as a publisher? Would you have any links for more info?

Thank you for your time, your input is great

Eoinp · 22-09-2010 5:03pm

bigmoma22 wrote: »

I am going to self publish an illustrated childrens book, few hundred copies only. This thread is great in getting a lot of info. My question might be more suitable for another thread, but here it is:

Does one need to be a registered company in order to sell own books through different chanells? Re tax, does one need to submit exemption form with any amount or just if income above certain amount?

Once I decide to get an ISBN, if I do, do I need to be registered as a publisher? Would you have any links for more info?

Thank you for your time, your input is great

No you don't need to be registered as a company (though you'll need to pay tax on any profit you make).

More than likely you'll hardly earn enough to warrant claiming exemption, but even so, your book may fall outside the guidelines for literature (check with the Arts Council).

There is no need to be registered as a publisher to get an ISBN.
ISBNs are supplied by Nielsen (http://www.isbn.nielsenbook.co.uk/controller.php?page=121) for a fee.

Eoin

PS: as I've mentioned before, all self publishing topics will be covered at the conference I'm organizing in October, www.onestopselfpublishing.com

Nic Neptune · 30-12-2010 4:54am

Hi Eoin.

I was just wondering, if one were to publish a poetry book for example, is it necessary to copyright each poem before sending them for publication? I'd be interested in trying to get a poetry book published but am unsure of the necessary precautions to take.

Also, are there any magazines which publish a once-off poem and like above, would it have to have some kind of copyright?

Thanks,

Nic.

EileenG · 30-12-2010 9:18pm

You own the copyright as soon as you write something. You don't have to do anything special to prove it, though if there is ever a dispute, then your early drafts will be your proof.

When you get something published, you are giving the publisher the right to publish it, not the copyright, unless you were working directly for them when you wrote it.

Eoinp · 30-12-2010 9:57pm

Nic Neptune wrote: »

Hi Eoin.

I was just wondering, if one were to publish a poetry book for example, is it necessary to copyright each poem before sending them for publication? I'd be interested in trying to get a poetry book published but am unsure of the necessary precautions to take.

Also, are there any magazines which publish a once-off poem and like above, would it have to have some kind of copyright?

Thanks,

Nic.

Also,

It would be helpful to get in writing from the magazine what right you grant them and to ensure you keep this one record. While they may not have something of this nature, it is good practice for them to do it!

Eoin

Nic Neptune · 30-12-2010 10:21pm

Thanks so much, much appreciated.

desolate sun · 09-01-2011 1:47pm

Hi Eoin
I've recently started submitting my novel to agents. I was told that submitting to one at a time is wasteful due to response times. Advice I received from agents' blogs was to send out my query in batches of 5 or 10 BUT researching and addressing each query to each particular agent. Seems like sound advice.

However after reading the submission guidelines of some agents, they don't want this. One agent even said the following: "Finally, we don't take part in "beauty contests"; we ask, if you are submitting to a number of agents at the same time, that you pass us by."
they also say that response times can be a minimum 6 weeks!!

One agent says that they prefer to be exclusive but if you do submit simultaneously, to tell them. Is that just a reason to delete your submission?

What is your take on this Eoin?

PS apologies if this has been asked before. I have read this thread several times, but not recently

desolate sun · 09-01-2011 2:50pm

desolate sun wrote: »

Hi Eoin
I've recently started submitting my novel to agents. I was told that submitting to one at a time is wasteful due to response times. Advice I received from agents' blogs was to send out my query in batches of 5 or 10 BUT researching and addressing each query to each particular agent. Seems like sound advice.

However after reading the submission guidelines of some agents, they don't want this. One agent even said the following: "Finally, we don't take part in "beauty contests"; we ask, if you are submitting to a number of agents at the same time, that you pass us by."
they also say that response times can be a minimum 6 weeks!!

One agent says that they prefer to be exclusive but if you do submit simultaneously, to tell them. Is that just a reason to delete your submission?

PS apologies if this has been asked before. I have read this thread severaltimes, but not recently

Apologies Eoin, I read through the thread again and you did mention submitting to agents individually.
However, I read Kristin Nelson's blog that she encourages writers to submit simultaneously and not allow exclusivity as it is not in a writer's best interest.
Can you tell me why there is conflicting advice about this?
Thank you

feebee12 · 10-01-2011 8:15pm

Hi Eoin

Have been following your thread with great interest and am drawing on your wealth of knowledge. I have always loved writing poems and playing with words and many people have enjoyed them down through the years.
As I am a complete novice and have only ever written for my own and others' amusement I was hoping you could give me some advice on how to get my poems 'out there' or dare I imagine it 'published'!!

Feebee

Eoinp · 17-01-2011 1:49am

desolate sun wrote: »

Apologies Eoin, I read through the thread again and you did mention submitting to agents individually.
However, I read Kristin Nelson's blog that she encourages writers to submit simultaneously and not allow exclusivity as it is not in a writer's best interest.
Can you tell me why there is conflicting advice about this?
Thank you

I think the difference stems from the fact that I encourage a VERY targeted submissions policy. Close scrutiny of who you send manuscripts to and knowledge of why your work fits their stable of authors etc.

You CAN submit to multiple agents and authors, I'm not dead set against it, but I suspect your tragetting will be less effective and much of the extra effort wasted.

Finally, Kristin has great experience and great advice, but as with much in the industry, some decisions come down to subjective opinion. There is NO single rule for how to get published, just words of advice from people on one side of the industry.
Eoin

Orion101 · 21-01-2011 5:22pm

Hello Eoin,

First off, thanks for taking the time to answer our questions - it's really useful to get advice from someone in the business.

I'm working on a number of stories (mainly horror and thriller) which range from 10-30,000 and I'd like to know is there any market worth mentioning for these. It seems that very few magazines deal with stories larger than 8,000.

Is there a possibility of publishing two stories of around 30,000 words each, and of the same genre, as a single novel, or is this unlikely or is it just plain crazy talk? Should I just bite the bullet and work on writing a full novel?

Thanks V. much!

Eoinp · 24-01-2011 9:57am

Orion101 wrote: »

Hello Eoin,

First off, thanks for taking the time to answer our questions - it's really useful to get advice from someone in the business.

I'm working on a number of stories (mainly horror and thriller) which range from 10-30,000 and I'd like to know is there any market worth mentioning for these. It seems that very few magazines deal with stories larger than 8,000.

Is there a possibility of publishing two stories of around 30,000 words each, and of the same genre, as a single novel, or is this unlikely or is it just plain crazy talk? Should I just bite the bullet and work on writing a full novel?

Thanks V. much!

Oih, oih, oih,

Tough market as you've pointed out. I don't know the horror market well enough to know if something exists.

It might be worth exploring something like smashwords or even Kindle publishing direct to build a small following and sell (or give away) a few of your novellas, and get some feedback from readers.

Surely there are niche communities online of authors in this space?
Eoin

first be · 05-02-2011 8:47am

I think the difference stems from the fact that I encourage a VERY targeted submissions policy. Close scrutiny of who you send manuscripts to and knowledge of why your work fits their stable of authors etc.

safira218 · 23-02-2011 11:15am

pathway33 wrote: »

Hi Eoin,

I received a reply to my submission which stated 'it was unsuitable for our current publishing programme....the work may well be suitable for another publisher'

Is this a standard reply or do they really think it's suitable for another publisher? Maybe they were just letting me down gently

Thanks,

There is no standard wordcount. But agents and publishers sometimes indicate guidelines. try and stick close to those. If you write for a genre, find out the average for books of that kind. Shoot for that.

Hydro 69. · 25-02-2011 12:09am

Hi Eoin,
I have been battling with a realy good yarn in my head for the past ten years. At this stage its to be found in various places, partly on pages, dictaphone tapes, memory sticks and still a substancial part between my ears. In short I need help to get this damm thing out and into a managable form. Have you any suggestions for somone that might be able to help me. I have been interviewed on both TV and radio on the subject and a number of Documentary makers have filmed and recorded me but havent come up with the money to get to the production stage. It keeps coming back to the same mantra, The Book,The Book, The Book.

EileenG · 25-02-2011 1:39am

I'm not Eoin, but I'm pretty certain I know what he's going to say. You've got to write the book. Once it's written, you can beg or pay for help with editing and polishing, but no-one except you can get it from between your ears onto the page. At this stage, it's not about money, it's about getting up early or turning off the tv for a couple of hours every day and writing, writing, writing.

Eoinp · 25-02-2011 6:47pm

Hydro 69. wrote: »

Hi Eoin,
I have been battling with a realy good yarn in my head for the past ten years. At this stage its to be found in various places, partly on pages, dictaphone tapes, memory sticks and still a substancial part between my ears. In short I need help to get this damm thing out and into a managable form. Have you any suggestions for somone that might be able to help me. I have been interviewed on both TV and radio on the subject and a number of Documentary makers have filmed and recorded me but havent come up with the money to get to the production stage. It keeps coming back to the same mantra, The Book,The Book, The Book.

I am Eoin and EileenG is spot on!

Write the whole story, no matter how bad you think it is. When you have the whole story down, that's the time to seek out an editor.

What you might consider, if writing is just not working, is hiring someone to actually record what you are saying, do some extra research and write a book. That won't be cheap though and finding the right person can be a bit tricky!
Eoin

Hydro 69. · 26-02-2011 12:00pm

Eoinp wrote: »

I am Eoin and EileenG is spot on!

Write the whole story, no matter how bad you think it is. When you have the whole story down, that's the time to seek out an editor.

What you might consider, if writing is just not working, is hiring someone to actually record what you are saying, do some extra research and write a book. That won't be cheap though and finding the right person can be a bit tricky!
Eoin

No short cuts.

Matt Holck · 29-03-2011 4:10am

ok I need to publish an epic

best ideas I heard so far was to mail scripts out to various legitimate companies

EileenG · 29-03-2011 4:13pm

Matt Holck wrote: »

ok I need to publish an epic

best ideas I heard so far was to mail scripts out to various legitimate companies

Before you do, go back and rewrite, and edit, and polish, and cut as much as possible. A novel of standard length will stand a much better chance of getting published than one that will cost twice as much to produce.

i-digress · 30-03-2011 1:26am

EileenG wrote: »

Before you do, go back and rewrite, and edit, and polish, and cut as much as possible. A novel of standard length will stand a much better chance of getting published than one that will cost twice as much to produce.

This is true. It's rare for a new writer to get to publish a long work, because the publisher doesn't want to risk too much money on an author who doesn't have a proven record of sales.

If after you polish it, you don't think you can cut it without the risk of ruining the story, you might want to write another standard level novel and try to get that published first.

Matt Holck · 31-03-2011 1:30am

thanks

gallows · 03-04-2011 9:45am

Great thread thanks!!

How to get published

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