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Next Gen Freesat?

  • 05-07-2017 11:12am
    #1
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,346 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    I wonder if anyone has heard any rumours about a next gen Freesat boxes to compete with Sky Q?

    Features like:
    - Recording more channels simultaneously
    - Streaming to mini boxes from the main box
    - Streaming to tablets from the main box

    It feels like Freesat is starting to fall behind if it doesn't keep up with these modern features.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭givecredit


    bk wrote: »
    I wonder if anyone has heard any rumours about a next gen Freesat boxes to compete with Sky Q?

    Features like:
    - Recording more channels simultaneously
    - Streaming to mini boxes from the main box
    - Streaming to tablets from the main box

    It feels like Freesat is starting to fall behind if it doesn't keep up with these modern features.

    "- Recording more channels simultaneously
    - Streaming to mini boxes from the main box
    - Streaming to tablets from the main box"

    This has been possible on Enigma2 Boxes for over 5 years now. I think SkyQ is only trying to keep pace with the Enigma 2 developers.

    I'm sure freesat(Humax) will bring these features in future, if there is demand.
    Recording is being replaced by the various channels tv apps. Streaming to "mini boxes" already possible also through tvplayers app on Roku/Apple/Android/Windows
    Streaming to tablets already available through tvplayer also, inside and outside the home.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,346 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    givecredit wrote: »
    This has been possible on Enigma2 Boxes for over 5 years now. I think SkyQ is only trying to keep pace with the Enigma 2 developers.

    Yes I know, I've had one for a few years now.

    However I've come to the realisation that it is a bit of a pain to maintain and with a baby around new and baby sitters, etc. it simply isn't reliable enough.

    I also came to the realisation that I almost never watch the Irish channels. So was thinking of getting a Freesat box to simplify it all. But I'd hate to buy a box now if a new one is just around the corner.

    BTW I know Sky Q is just copying Enigma developers, etc. But there is a real value to simplifying things and making it accessible and reliable to everyone. Lots of my family and friends are going to Sky Q and loving the new features. They would never have gone with Enigma, too techy for them.
    givecredit wrote: »
    I'm sure freesat(Humax) will bring these features in future, if there is demand.
    Recording is being replaced by the various channels tv apps. Streaming to "mini boxes" already possible also through tvplayers app on Roku/Apple/Android/Windows
    Streaming to tablets already available through tvplayer also, inside and outside the home.

    Yes, yes, I've Android TV (Nvidia Shield, brilliant), FireTV, Now TV, along with PS3 and PS4. And the truth is again they are a complicated mess.

    RTE Player and TV3 Player don't work on any of the above and the various UK players require VPN services to work.

    Only Youtube, Netflix and Plex work well across all of them.

    It would be fine if you are living in the UK, but too much messing aroudn is needed to get things working in Ireland.

    What is nice about Sky Q is that is just works. Freesat just works too, but it is missing those extra features. If it at least support streaming to mini boxes, you could at least record and watch the shows you are interested in without having the deal with the mess of crappy player services.


  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭kyeev


    I have a midrange 6 series Samsung with freesat built in.
    2 x satellite feeds plug into the TV, allowing record one channel while watching another.
    I've plugged a 2TB hardrive into the TV and it happily records a program or a series of programs through the Freesat guide. I can obviously pause TV too.
    Fressat updates channels automatically.
    I can also watch the freesat channels on PC through router, using smartview, but not record.
    Zero cables. One remote control.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭givecredit


    Something like this you want. Humax have created this for Freeview. Hopefully they will do similar for Freesat.

    http://uk.humaxdigital.com/product/h3/




  • bk wrote: »
    Yes I know, I've had one for a few years now.

    However I've come to the realisation that it is a bit of a pain to maintain and with a baby around new and baby sitters, etc. it simply isn't reliable enough.
    .

    What issues are you having with the box? My enigma2 box requires almost no maintenance for using standard features.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,346 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    givecredit wrote: »
    Something like this you want. Humax have created this for Freeview. Hopefully they will do similar for Freesat.

    http://uk.humaxdigital.com/product/h3/

    Yes exactly this! Brilliant if they do it for Freesat too. Would make sense to do it, maybe they are waiting for a new Freesat 4k box and support for Sky's new LNB's to add it.

    One thing it seems to be missing though is streaming TV to an in house ipad/tablet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=102547352

    There was to be a presentation at the CAI's annual Evolving Connectivity seminar a few months ago "Freesat - wideband, the single cable and channel stacking".

    The presentations for previous events were always available for download but sine their website was redesigned all of that is now locked behind the members' paywall. Haven't seen any mention of it elsewhere.

    Rippy was to attend and report back.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,346 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Yup, a new generation of Freesat box does sound like it is needed, with the following features:

    - Support for wideband (but hopefully also backwards compatible too).
    - More then two tuners like Sky Q
    - 4K UHD support, at least for Youtube, Netflix and the other player apps
    - Streaming to mini boxes and other devices (e.g. tablets).

    Looks like I need to try and keep my engima box going for another few months at least until this arrive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    bk wrote: »
    Looks like I need to try and keep my engima box going for another few months at least until this arrive.

    I think you'll be waiting more than a few months for this, I would guess this may only be in a very early planning stage if even that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭Dave..M


    Technology seems to be outpacing some companies abilities to keep up. Not that many years ago (although more than I want to admit!) I wired my house for FTA, started with an enigma box & a walker FTA box, for ease of use (like BK!) I moved onto Freesat and a Sammy dual tuner Freesat TV. Then NOWTV, then Netflix and now Primevideo. I honestly couldn't tell you when I last watched linear TV (other than rugby), the Irish channels have been dead to me for years bar sport. The last thing I tried to watch on RTE player (Deutschland 83 two years ago) was so utterly infuriating with ads and bugs I've never used it since. Only my eldest (7) has seen ad based TV, all three would look at me like I had 5 heads if I said they couldn't choose which show to watch (although with fights over shows it might be worth it), that's if they watch a show and not some tripe on you tube ( I had them watching the real ghostbusters and smurfs though at one point !!!!). More often they use their tablets. Hell even my 70 year old folks were up to no good on streaming (which personally I don't go in for). My wife does watch the soaps and faircity though so she flies the linear TV flag for my house.

    I guess my view is that SKY Q is already outdated and only exists because of legacy habits and the SKY juggernaut and not because it's particularly inspirational.

    Having said that and despite the likely inevitability of its demise, i think FTA is essential as it keeps all these other services honest. For me though unless it comes baked into a TV now I won't fork out much on upgrading that side of my TV tech.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,346 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Dave..M, exactly the same experience here.

    We barely watch live TV any more, mostly just for some background noise on one of those comedy panel shows while doing other work on the Laptop.

    I can't watch movies or decent TV shows any more, the ads just kill me. All Netflix, youtube, etc. nowadays.

    That is why I'm less enthusiastic about keeping the enigma box going nowadays. Just too much effort given how little we use it. But on the other hand I need something reliable, for when the granny, etc. is around to look after the little one.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,346 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The Cush wrote: »
    I think you'll be waiting more than a few months for this, I would guess this may only be in a very early planning stage if even that.

    I'd be surprised if they aren't already scrambling to get it done, it isn't rocket science!

    - Clearly 4k capable processors are widely available now
    - They already have the streaming box for Freeview, the rest is just a little software.

    That just leaves wideband tuners which I'd assume are off the shelf parts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 693 ✭✭✭Dave..M


    bk wrote: »
    But on the other hand I need something reliable, for when the granny, etc. is around to look after the little one.

    Lol, I have a combi TV in one room with instructions taped onto the remote how to flip between Saorview & FTA sat for exactly that purpose :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Just like Sky, those others are playing 'catch up'.

    What happened to innovative products being released?

    I have not seen anything for years (if then) that is not able to be bettered by someone capable of putting together some parts, in the manner of building a PC, and installing some software.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,684 ✭✭✭winston_1


    The purpose of Freesat is to provide a service to people in the UK who cannot get decent Freeview reception. It is not to compete with Sky.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    winston_1 wrote: »
    The purpose of Freesat is to provide a service to people in the UK who cannot get decent Freeview reception. It is not to compete with Sky.

    I don't know about people in the UK, but I expect to be able to watch TV in any room in my home and on any device that is capable of displaying the media.
    So if Freesat were offering their service to me I would expect that level of service.
    Maybe I am more demanding than people in the UK.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    bk wrote: »
    Features like:
    - Recording more channels simultaneously
    - Streaming to mini boxes from the main box
    - Streaming to tablets from the main box

    I liked my Humax Foxsat with modified software so much, I bought a second one cheap on Ebay to get me more simultaneous recordings.
    The mini boxes are RPi3s (built in wifi) running LibreELEC
    Streams to Kodi on the kids' tablets and my laptop
    All can play ripped DVDs from my NAS as well.

    Yes it won't stream in HD but I don't care. Hassle free, works well and even the other half can work it :p

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 35 johnner64


    winston_1 wrote: »
    The purpose of Freesat is to provide a service to people in the UK who cannot get decent Freeview reception. It is not to compete with Sky.

    Yes, its main purpose is to offer a service complimentary to Freeview.

    But a glance at the main page of their website tells a different story in terms of competng with Sky.

    The word "save" is in just about every sentence.

    "this summer go subscription free..."

    "eat - sleep - save"

    "If you've already got a dish, it couldn't be easier to switch" [my bold]

    "buy now, don't pay later"

    That certainly suggests, to me anyway, that they see themselves as a competitor to Sky.

    And why wouldn't they. The more people buying their boxes means the more attractive it is for broadcasters to pay to be on their EPG.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,419 ✭✭✭mackersdublin


    Some new features on the way according to a post on the Freesat forum on Digital Spy

    https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/comment/86954879#Comment_86954879


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I think a simple improvement to Freesat would be to allow rearrangement of the programme numbers - or at least put the HD versions of channels in first position (like Ch4 - 104 but Ch4 HD is 126).

    Also allow preemptive deletion of channels like the shopping ones and the religious one. When I have deleted them, they reappear.

    However, I am a fan of Free Sat. Long may it continue.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    I liked my Humax Foxsat with modified software so much, I bought a second one cheap on Ebay to get me more simultaneous recordings.
    The mini boxes are RPi3s (built in wifi) running LibreELEC
    Streams to Kodi on the kids' tablets and my laptop
    All can play ripped DVDs from my NAS as well.

    Yes it won't stream in HD but I don't care. Hassle free, works well and even the other half can work it :p

    Some of us do all of this (in HD) with RPis and tvheadend. The backend needs a bit of (linux) know how, but the front end is simples (tip: use a simple skin). I have a cheap sat>ip device in the attic and a couple (one per mux) of usb DVB-T tuners connect to a RPi2 running raspbian and tvheadend. On tvheadend I have a set of groups that people can choose between, so we have Kids, News, All, channel groups that can be selected on the client device (RPi/LibreELEC). Total initial setup cost me about 300 quid. For that I can record up to 3 sat channels while watching another. I have tested this running 4 HD channels around the house without any jitter or buffering issues.

    With a bit of port forwarding and dynamic DNS I can access on any device anywhere outside the home. This is also useful for setting up a recording from my phone anywhere there is a data connection.

    Going on holidays recently, I simply took one of these client RPis with me, plugged into the TV in the holiday apartment and connected to the wifi there and accessed our home TV system as if we were at home. All in HD*.

    *a decent uplink (>12Mb) on the home broadband is need for HD outside the home.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    @ PabloAndRoy ..... which Sat>IP device are you currently using?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    @ PabloAndRoy ..... which Sat>IP device are you currently using?

    Telestar Digibit R1.

    https://www.amazon.de/Telestar-Digibit-Sat-IP-Netzwerk-Transmitter/dp/B008OVPYCQ/ref=sr_1_1

    4 tuners for €122. Hard to beat that!

    Simple to configure over a web interface (although there is no real configuration needed) and tvheadend just picks up the individual tuners as if they are connected directly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    Telestar Digibit R1.

    https://www.amazon.de/Telestar-Digibit-Sat-IP-Netzwerk-Transmitter/dp/B008OVPYCQ/ref=sr_1_1

    4 tuners for €122. Hard to beat that!

    Simple to configure over a web interface (although there is no real configuration needed) and tvheadend just picks up the individual tuners as if they are connected directly.

    Thanks! Great price for 4 tuners! :)

    I have looked but cannot find if the device makes all channels on a mux available or just one channel per tuner.

    Have you tried displaying more than 4 channels ?

    Definitely an interesting device at that price. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    Thanks! Great price for 4 tuners! :)

    I have looked but cannot find if the device makes all channels on a mux available or just one channel per tuner.

    Have you tried displaying more than 4 channels ?

    Definitely an interesting device at that price. ;)

    I am pretty sure it does all channels on the mux, but I will test that for you tonight. In fact now that I think of I am pretty sure (99%) that I tried this before and it does multiple channels per mux. I will confirm tonight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    I am pretty sure it does all channels on the mux, but I will test that for you tonight. In fact now that I think of I am pretty sure (99%) that I tried this before and it does multiple channels per mux. I will confirm tonight.

    Thanks. Yes I expect it does, but it gets confusing when they specifically say only 4 devices can connect. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    confirmed .... 4 BBC HD channels on transponder 50 all served by the same tuner. Plus Channel 4 HD served by tuner 2. No jitter or buffering on any of these devices. Backend is a RPi 2.

    jX8zBJk.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    confirmed .... 4 BBC HD channels on transponder 50 all served by the same tuner. Plus Channel 4 HD served by tuner 2. No jitter or buffering on any of these devices. Backend is a RPi 2.

    jX8zBJk.png

    Thank you for doing that ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,981 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    @PabloAndRoy

    Got my Telestar today.
    Presently testing with just one LNB input as I am trying to figure out the details.

    Tvheadend shows four tuners but each has four Positions ..... so trying to figure out how to set things up.

    Of course the manual arrived in German only .... you don't have a link to an English version do you?

    So far I have tried both Tvheadend tuning and also using the playlist in VLC.
    Both seem to work well.


    Is there an explanation about how these 'positions' should be ustilised?

    Thanks. ;)

    1e9y5l.jpg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭PabloAndRoy


    I never did find an English Manual.

    I believe those positions are related to the DiSEqC inputs ...

    Its explained in the SAT>IP spec on page 44:
    http://www.satip.info/sites/satip/files/resource/satip_specification_version_1_2_2.pdf


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