Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

DAB Thread

11415161719

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭ITV2


    not on here in Dublin West now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    So - on this on on other threads there has been a semi loose discussion about DAB and who regulates it etc etc.
    My understanding is that the 2009 act treats DAB for want of a better word as a "station" and therefore coming under the jurisdiction of the BAI, obviously through frequency clearance from Comreg.
    My understanding is also that a "Section 71" license is required to be a content provider on any given MUX

    Can someone please explain to me (because I am a little lost) how these MUX frequencies become advertised, or is it the BAI's recommendation that the current incumbents can turn on a MUX in their own areas?

    If this is the case, I cannot understand why this is so, after all, the industry has shown ZERO interest in doing so since 2009 and to my knowledge there was no mention or requirement of this in their renewed licenses

    I note that BTS have a website up at dbdb.ie where it is stated "This is a full service not a trial" and "TX to main cities with population 1.8m" - how did this come about? and where could one find out info on this license

    On the Radio Today website back in September 2019, the Free DAB people expressed their frustration with being unable to broadcast legally on DAB because there was no easy methodology to do with impossible red tape surrounding the "Section 71" content licenses etc etc.

    So in essence, can anyone in the know shed some light in this dbdb "full service" and how such a full service came about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    kazoo106 wrote: »
    Can someone please explain to me (because I am a little lost) how these MUX frequencies become advertised, or is it the BAI's recommendation that the current incumbents can turn on a MUX in their own areas?
    Section 136 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 reads:
    (1) In order to secure the orderly establishment, maintenance and operation of multiplexes the Authority shall from time to time having regard to the availability of radio frequencies for multiplexes, specify the coverage area (which area may consist of a whole or any part of the State) in which programme material and related and other data shall be broadcast pursuant to a multiplex contract and shall direct the Contract Awards Committee to invite applications for a multiplex contract and the Contract Awards Committee shall comply with the direction.

    ...

    (3) Where the Contract Awards Committee invites applications for a multiplex contract it shall by public notice specify the coverage area (specified by the Authority under subsection (1)) in which the programme material and related and other data shall be broadcast pursuant to such contract (in this section referred to as “ maximum coverage area ”) and by such notice shall invite persons interested in establishing and maintaining a multiplex to apply for such contract.

    ...

    (7) Where the Authority directs the Contract Awards Committee to invite applications for sound broadcasting multiplex contracts under subsection (1), the Contract Awards Committee shall, as part of the notice, indicate whether any listed simulcast services shall be contained on the multiplex.


    Essentially: The BAI decide if and where there should be a multiplex, advertise for licence applications and award the licence to whom they deem most suitable in a manner similar to FM licencing. I assume subsection 7 applies to stations broadcasting on FM and whether they can or must be carried.
    kazoo106 wrote: »
    I note that BTS have a website up at dbdb.ie where it is stated "This is a full service not a trial" and "TX to main cities with population 1.8m" - how did this come about? and where could one find out info on this license

    On the Radio Today website back in September 2019, the Free DAB people expressed their frustration with being unable to broadcast legally on DAB because there was no easy methodology to do with impossible red tape surrounding the "Section 71" content licenses etc etc.

    So in essence, can anyone in the know shed some light in this dbdb "full service" and how such a full service came about?
    The DBDB website states that the multiplex will operate under a Section 131 licence, and Section 131.2 reads:
    For the purpose of subsection (1) the Authority shall, with persons (“ multiplex contractors ”) enter into contracts (“multiplex contracts”) under which the multiplex contractors have, subject to this Part, the right and duty to establish, maintain and operate a multiplex in the area specified in the multiplex contract and in accordance with the terms of the contract.

    So I would expect that following their trial run around 2012, DBDB have expressed their interest in running a multiplex to the BAI and based on that interest, a licence was advertised and subsequently awarded.

    I'm optimistic that this might see a turning-point and a see-change for Irish Radio.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,618 ✭✭✭Infoanon


    Does anybody recall a licence being advertised?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭JDxtra


    I don't agree with the DBDB approach of simulcasting DAB and DAB+. Forget DAB, it's done with. Start with DAB+ and launch 15+ stations.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    I have no recollection of a license being advertised, I will query this with the BAI tomorrow and come back with any info I get, but I'm almost sure that if such a thing was advertised, someone here would see !
    Which opens up a whole carbuncle of new questions if not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    The 2009 Act states the following in section 136

    (3) Where the Contract Awards Committee invites applications for a multiplex contract it shall by public notice specify the coverage area (specified by the Authority under subsection (1)) in which the programme material and related and other data shall be broadcast pursuant to such contract (in this section referred to as “ maximum coverage area ”) and by such notice shall invite persons interested in establishing and maintaining a multiplex to apply for such contract.

    (4) Every notice under subsection (3) shall—

    (a) be published on a website maintained by the Authority, and where appropriate, in a newspaper circulating in the area to be served,

    (b) specify the procedure to be followed in order to make an application, and

    (c) specify any other matters which appear to the Contract Awards Committee to be necessary or relevant.



    Can someone point me in the direction as to where the license was advertised onto which DBDB will be providing a "full service"


  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87


    kazoo106 wrote: »
    The 2009 Act states the following in section 136

    (3) Where the Contract Awards Committee invites applications for a multiplex contract it shall by public notice specify the coverage area (specified by the Authority under subsection (1)) in which the programme material and related and other data shall be broadcast pursuant to such contract (in this section referred to as “ maximum coverage area ”) and by such notice shall invite persons interested in establishing and maintaining a multiplex to apply for such contract.

    (4) Every notice under subsection (3) shall—

    (a) be published on a website maintained by the Authority, and where appropriate, in a newspaper circulating in the area to be served,

    (b) specify the procedure to be followed in order to make an application, and

    (c) specify any other matters which appear to the Contract Awards Committee to be necessary or relevant.



    Can someone point me in the direction as to where the license was advertised onto which DBDB will be providing a "full service"

    My best guess on this is there A. It hasent been made public knowledge and db have been given a under the table contract. Or B. This is just all a imaginary venture. Lets hope it's the latter because if it's A. You can be shure there will be uproar and it wont look good for the bai breaking there own rulebook !!


  • Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭kazoo106


    Or perhaps somewhere in the legislation it exempts RTE, and perhaps when RTE vacate these muxes they could be "rented" while overall being owned by RTE/2RN.

    Dont have time to go through the legislation today, but all very interesting stuff.

    Everything can be open to interpretation !


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    Infoanon wrote: »
    Does anybody recall a licence being advertised?
    I don't recall, and I didn't see anything listed recently on their website other than a couple of notices about existing FM stations who's contracts were up for renewal, but I only gave it a quick skim.
    kazoo106 wrote: »
    Or perhaps somewhere in the legislation it exempts RTE, and perhaps when RTE vacate these muxes they could be "rented" while overall being owned by RTE/2RN.

    Dont have time to go through the legislation today, but all very interesting stuff.

    Everything can be open to interpretation !
    RTE are licensed exclusively under Section 133.1 which reads:
    The Communications Regulator, at the request of RTÉ, shall issue to RTÉ a licence in respect of the establishment, maintenance and operation of a single sound broadcasting multiplex, which multiplex shall, in so far as it is reasonably practicable, be capable of being transmitted by digital terrestrial means to the whole community in the State.

    Section 133 allows for a total of three national multiplexes, the first two to be operated by RTE and the third by a contractor under Section 131. Section 133.4 allows for local/regional operations.

    So while RTE can at any time request a licence to operate a national multiplex (and I'm not sure if the current system is operating under that provision) there's no provision that would allow a third party to 'take over' the licence nor a provision that would allow the BAI to facilitate it. RTE are quite literally a law to themselves.

    Thus the only way I see that a Section 131 licence could have been granted was for the usual process (which mirrors the process of FM broadcast licences) to have been followed (Section 136) and for a licence to have been advertised (as outlined in that section) and awarded on the basis of the applicant being the most suitable as determined by the Contracts and Awards Committee.


    The one thing that is clear to me is this: Regardless of what process was ultimately followed, with DBDB set to go into operation, the one thing that I am hopeful for is that it will be a success.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87


    I don't recall, and I didn't see anything listed recently on their website other than a couple of notices about existing FM stations who's contracts were up for renewal, but I only gave it a quick skim.


    RTE are licensed exclusively under Section 133.1 which reads:
    The Communications Regulator, at the request of RTÉ, shall issue to RTÉ a licence in respect of the establishment, maintenance and operation of a single sound broadcasting multiplex, which multiplex shall, in so far as it is reasonably practicable, be capable of being transmitted by digital terrestrial means to the whole community in the State.

    Section 133 allows for a total of three national multiplexes, the first two to be operated by RTE and the third by a contractor under Section 131. Section 133.4 allows for local/regional operations.

    So while RTE can at any time request a licence to operate a national multiplex (and I'm not sure if the current system is operating under that provision) there's no provision that would allow a third party to 'take over' the licence nor a provision that would allow the BAI to facilitate it. RTE are quite literally a law to themselves.

    Thus the only way I see that a Section 131 licence could have been granted was for the usual process (which mirrors the process of FM broadcast licences) to have been followed (Section 136) and for a licence to have been advertised (as outlined in that section) and awarded on the basis of the applicant being the most suitable as determined by the Contracts and Awards Committee.


    The one thing that is clear to me is this: Regardless of what process was ultimately followed, with DBDB set to go into operation, the one thing that I am hopeful for is that it will be a success.


    If dbdb have been awarded then it's a monopoly and ultimately the bai have broken there own rules so to speak if the bai expect rules to be followed to there letter dont you think thay should lead by example .if db have been granted a licence that was not public knowledge then that is a joke and can and will be ultimately faught . No wonder we have pirated DAB in the first place to prove viability and stustaiablity .now the likes of the legacy companys suddenly get the rains based on what there bank account.!! And big business. Indapentant stations here are struggling as it stands .and DAB should be a cost effective way to ease costs and maximise listenership. But in the big companys like news Corp and dbdb it's all about maximising profits and minimising costs for themselves rather than the services thay wish to be on DAB . And not forgetting the tidy some the bai will get in return .what a joke of a system ..............


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭radioguru02


    My theory is that DBD are - at the moment - dreaming
    Nowhere on their website does it specifically claim to already have any form of license whatsoever. I think they are simply presuming they will get it so as to make it attractive to stations.
    Unfortunately, I reckon there’s a good chance that, if it does make it to air, it will be filled with ILR’s like last time, stations that are already available on FM to Most of the audience that is interested in listening to them
    I hope I’m wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    Franko87 wrote: »
    If dbdb have been awarded then it's a monopoly and ultimately the bai have broken there own rules so to speak if the bai expect rules to be followed to there letter dont you think thay should lead by example .
    From DBDB.ie:
    "Ireland’s first commercial DAB+ multiplex will broadcast ten new radio stations to Ireland’s main cities; Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford. The initial service area covers 1.8m people, expanding quickly to each cities commuter belt adding a further 1.2m, then rolling out nationally."
    I would take that to mean that they have been granted a licence under the provision in 133.3 which reads:
    The Communications Regulator, at the request of the Authority, shall issue to the Authority under the Acts of 1926 to 2009, subject to this Part, a sound broadcasting multiplex licence in respect of the establishment, maintenance and operation of one sound broadcasting multiplex, which multiplex shall, in so far as it is reasonably practicable, be capable of being transmitted by digital terrestrial means to the whole community in the State, in accordance with contracts to be entered into by the Authority under section 136 (2)

    133.2 reads similar to above but applies specifically to RTE, so they would be the operator of the third and final national multiplex.

    They may have an effective monopoly on the provision and operation of a national multiplex, but the Act provides for the provision of regional and local services.

    The question that needs to be answered, is how the licence came to be awarded and if it followed 'due process'.
    Franko87 wrote: »
    No wonder we have pirated DAB in the first place to prove viability and stustaiablity
    You've done something that's caught a lot of interest and spread by pure word of mouth. I don't recall a single advert, nobody had told me about the multiplex, I simply stumbled across it because my car has a DAB radio.


    I hope that DBDB's endeavour is a success because if it were to fail, in the way the licencing of DTT had gone, then it would set DAB back by another five years or more. If it succeeds, and the devil will be in the details, then at best I'll have something to listen to besides the incumbent stations that don't usually catch my interest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭rogue-entity


    My theory is that DBD are - at the moment - dreaming
    Nowhere on their website does it specifically claim to already have any form of license whatsoever.
    "Each station will operate under a Section 71 Content Licence issued by the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland and the multiplex itself under a Section 131 licence. Single city stations expanding nationally who hold a sound broadcasting licence with the BAI require no further licence."

    I think they are simply presuming they will get it so as to make it attractive to stations.
    Unfortunately, I reckon there’s a good chance that, if it does make it to air, it will be filled with ILR’s like last time, stations that are already available on FM to Most of the audience that is interested in listening to them
    I hope I’m wrong
    If we assume they don't have a licence yet then it may be in the process of expressing an interest with the BAI in operating such a service and being able to show that X number of stations have committed to broadcasting on the platform would help.

    As I said, I hope it is a success because that opens up possibilities that we wouldn't have a hope of seeing otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,618 ✭✭✭Infoanon


    DB Ltd are stressing that this is a full time service and now state the service has been over subscribed - Rogue Entity may be correct that this is going to be the basis for an expression of interest


  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87


    Infoanon wrote: »
    DB Ltd are stressing that this is a full time service and now state the service has been over subscribed - Rogue Entity may be correct that this is going to be the basis for an expression of interest

    Again thay cant award a licence on expression of intrest alone. And let's say for a moment this is the case then it has to published and as it being not published it is ecentally a closed award not open to challenge. Am I wrong in assuming this .?


  • Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭Oscarziggy




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭radioguru02


    Going to Dublin tomorrow and looking forward to having a tuna around all of the bands, can anyone confirm whether any of the FreeDAB muxes are back on air?


  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭ITV2


    Only the RTE mux is on tonight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,561 ✭✭✭✭Dan Jaman


    Вашему собственному бычьему дерьму нельзя верить - V Putin
    




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭radioguru02


    Any sign of a return


  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87


    Any sign of a return
    dublin city mux will be returning in may . We have a mux on in the west of the city wich is still active .and all other multiplexes operate as normal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,928 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Franko87 wrote: »
    dublin city mux will be returning in may . We have a mux on in the west of the city wich is still active .and all other multiplexes operate as normal.

    are the live views for the muxes on the freedab website down? i haven't been able to get them to work for a bit.

    shut down alcohol action ireland now! end MUP today!



  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭ITV2


    Nothing on Freedab in Tallaght area? is it low power?


  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87


    are the live views for the muxes on the freedab website down? i haven't been able to get them to work for a bit.

    Yes all our live viewers are currently undergoing upgraids and final installations. As states on our website works will be completed on the 30th .


  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭editorsean


    Is the Sligo FreeDAB mux still on air?

    I was able to pick it up before the 20th February with stations such as Coast FM, Classic Gold, Energy, etc. When I checked that day after hearing the Dublin site was raided, it was gone and no signal since then.

    So I'm not sure whether the Sligo mux was taken down also or reduced in power, especially since the FreeDAB website only mentions that the Dublin mutiplex is off air. Previously I picked it up in a few rooms of our house and had no problem outside. I tried a full rescan outside at this time of posting, but nothing on DAB.


  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87


    editorsean wrote: »
    Is the Sligo FreeDAB mux still on air?

    I was able to pick it up before the 20th February with stations such as Coast FM, Classic Gold, Energy, etc. When I checked that day after hearing the Dublin site was raided, it was gone and no signal since then.

    So I'm not sure whether the Sligo mux was taken down also or reduced in power, especially since the FreeDAB website only mentions that the Dublin mutiplex is off air. Previously I picked it up in a few rooms of our house and had no problem outside. I tried a full rescan outside at this time of posting, but nothing on DAB.
    Sligo mux Is operating normally it is the country multiplex that we are having issues with we hope to have it resolved in the next few weeks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭the_wabbitt


    Franko87 wrote: »
    Sligo mux Is operating normally it is the country multiplex that we are having issues with we hope to have it resolved in the next few weeks.

    Sligo mux is OFF THE AIR


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,014 ✭✭✭castle2012


    Franko87 wrote: »
    Sligo mux Is operating normally it is the country multiplex that we are having issues with we hope to have it resolved in the next few weeks.

    Any sign of you guys switching back on the Dublin mix?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Franko87


    castle2012 wrote: »
    Any sign of you guys switching back on the Dublin mix?

    Due to the current health emergency the Dublin multiplex will not be on until it ends .other plans are being put into motion for continued expansion. And imaplentation of out multiplexes across Ireland.


Advertisement