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Visa Refused

  • 21-01-2020 12:47am
    #1
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭


    Hi folks,

    So my brother married a girl from the Philippines this time last year. He still lives here and intention was for her to move here.
    He spent a lot of last year getting paperwork in order etc..but the visa has been refused on the grounds that she would be "a burden on the state".
    He had to prove that he could support her financially, which he did. (Despite the fact that she wouldn't be allowed to work for 18 months after she got here).

    Has anyone any advice of what to do next? Can they just continue to refuse this or is there any hope of overcoming it.

    Btw, relationship is 100% genuine....not just for the visa.

    (Wasn't sure where to post so mods feel free to move to more suitable forum if needed)

    Thanks


«1

Comments

  • #2
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    Bump....anyone?


  • #3
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭Caranica


    They can appeal if there were errors in the information submitted or if there have been changes in circumstances subsequent to the application that would have affected the outcome. IIRC there is a minimum income level the Irish/EU spouse must earn, was this the problem? Your post seems to suggest it might be if the concern is that his wife would be a burden on the state.


  • #4
    Tow
    Registered Users Posts: 6,334 ✭✭✭Tow


    Appeal it. Maybe, talk to John Ferris first: https://www.facebook.com/john.ferris.359 It is all part of the 'system'. They have tables of required income, taking number of dependents etc into account. On appeal someone with more experience will have a look at the application. For all we on the internet know he earns 100,000 and it was read as 10,000, or he is on 35,000 with a load of kids.

    When is the money (including lost growth) Michael Noonan took in the Pension Levy going to be paid back?



  • #5
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    Thanks for replies.
    No kids involved, I don't know exactly what his salary is but he works as a full time barman so maybe not major money but I would have thought enough to support the two of them. Nor mortgage or rent to pay either and has saved €40k over the last 3 year's. All of this went in application.
    I read the policy on immigration website...clearly states that decision should not be solely based on economic reasons.
    Appeal is going through with a letter from a Peace Commissioner and a TD so fingers crossed.


  • #6
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Section 17.2 of the Policy Document on Non-EEA Family Reunification sets out the income requirement for the Irish spouse of a non-EEA spousal permission applicant:
    Where Sponsor is Irish Citizen
    17.2 An Irish citizen, in order to sponsor an immediate family member, must
    not have been totally or predominantly reliant on benefits from the Irish
    State for a continuous period in excess of 2 years immediately prior to
    the application and must over the three year period prior to application
    have earned a cumulative gross income over and above any State
    benefits of not less than €40k.

    If your brother hasn't been making at least €40k in wages and/or other non-social-benefit income over the past three years, he doesn't meet the requirement and most likely won't be able to sponsor her, unfortunately.


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  • #7
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,516 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    368100 wrote: »
    Bump....anyone?

    This might not suit your brother, but under EU Freedom of movements they can live and work in any other EU country, if they live/work in (for example) spain for a year or so, it might make getting the irish visa easier, but atleast they would be togather and both working...


  • #8
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    dennyk wrote: »
    Section 17.2 of the Policy Document on Non-EEA Family Reunification sets out the income requirement for the Irish spouse of a non-EEA spousal permission applicant:


    If your brother hasn't been making at least €40k in wages and/or other non-social-benefit income over the past three years, he doesn't meet the requirement and most likely won't be able to sponsor her, unfortunately.

    Does that not mean €40k in total over a 3 year period? Rather than €40k per annum, which would be above the average wage? I would take from cumulative it is over the 3 year period, which he complies with and more...his savings record is evidence of that.


  • #9
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,088 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    368100 wrote: »
    Does that not mean €40k in total over a 3 year period? Rather than €40k per annum, which would be above the average wage? I would take from cumulative it is over the 3 year period, which he complies with and more...his savings record is evidence of that.

    average industrial wage is practically 40K. 40k over 3 years would be not much more than minimum wage


  • #10
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    It's over the 3 years.


  • #11
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,326 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    He should appeal. From what I heard there are a lot of refusals including visitor visas that are overturned when you are persistent.

    If they have a child, it will be an Irish citizen even born in the Philippines. Very difficult to refuse an application for family unification on that basis


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  • #12
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,650 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    368100 wrote: »
    he works as a full time barman so maybe not major money but I would have thought enough to support the two of them.

    Barman is typically on a bit more than minimum wage, but nowhere near the €20 per hour needed to earn 40k per annum. (Tips don't count as income.)

    He can appeal. But really he needs a better job.


  • #13
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Barman is typically on a bit more than minimum wage, but nowhere near the €20 per hour needed to earn 40k per annum. (Tips don't count as income.)

    He can appeal. But really he needs a better job.

    As the above posts clarify, it's not €40k per annum, it's €40k cumulative over 3 years which he is comfortably in excess of.


  • #14
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,650 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    A baf worker wage is still not enough to support two people's living expenses.


  • #15
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Luckily for them, that's not for you to decide.


  • #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    A baf worker wage is still not enough to support two people's living expenses.

    The equivalent of a pint of beer / glass quarter bottle of wine is DIRT CHEAP in the Philippines, or Manila at least compared to Europe and Ireland.


  • #17
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,088 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    xieann wrote: »
    The equivalent of a pint of beer / glass quarter bottle of wine is DIRT CHEAP in the Philippines, or Manila at least compared to Europe and Ireland.

    how is that relevant?


  • #18
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    A baf worker wage is still not enough to support two people's living expenses.

    As the other poster said, luckily its not for you to decide....you seem to be looking down on bar work....Way to generalise everyone in it.....is is enough in this particular case...no mortgage/rent/other debts.....so he's not bad off. Wouldn't have been able to save €40k over 3 years otherwise but thanks for your generalised input.


  • #19
    Pronto63
    Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭Pronto63


    368100 wrote: »
    As the above posts clarify, it's not €40k per annum, it's €40k cumulative over 3 years which he is comfortably in excess of.

    This is correct.

    Is it not madness to suggest that €40k over 3 years is enough to support/sponsor a family in Ireland.

    The amount of newly naturalised Irish now bringing spouses and kids into the country is unbelievable.

    Btw OP the visa officer may have doubts over the validity/genuiness of the relationship. It's not all about income.


  • #20
    theguzman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    What would happen in this situation where a sick or disabled person wanted to marry a non-EU citizen but due their personal illness or disability were unable to work and be above the funding threshold? Surely a visa denial would be a breach of their human rights and be discrimination against the disabled.


  • #21
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭Caranica


    Not given the rules already exist. There is an income threshold for spousal visas a someone dependent on benefits doesn't meet it, whether disabled or otherwise.


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  • #22
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I have trouble believing that someone on 14k per annum would be able to support a spouse.

    I would suggest that 40k over 3 years is an old figure that was retained in the document as a failure of editing.

    It is important to note that its a policy document and does not create a right to reunification based on information in the document.


  • #23
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    I have trouble believing that someone on 14k per annum would be able to support a spouse.

    I would suggest that 40k over 3 years is an old figure that was retained in the document as a failure of editing.

    It is important to note that its a policy document and does not create a right to reunification based on information in the document.

    Absolutely....€40k over 3 years is far too low to support 2 people. Maybe if it was net disposable income...but even that would be tight.


  • #24
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,561 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    How on earth can they keep his wife out of country. Must be some human rights violation. And why would he need to support her/ surely she can work for herself, geez.


  • #25
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    How on earth can they keep his wife out of country. Must be some human rights violation. And why would he need to support her/ surely she can work for herself, geez.

    She's not allowed to work for first 18 months.

    It's crazy, stopping someone from working, paying tax and supporting themselves ....while at same time worrying that they'd be an economic burden on state. Typical mindlessness (that's the polite version of wjat I wanted to say)
    It is a breach of European human rights so we're pushing that angle to get things moved on.
    They have 10 weeks from 1st March to make a decision on the appeal


  • #26
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,650 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    How on earth can they keep his wife out of country. Must be some human rights violation. .

    Why? Sex is not a human right.

    Plenty of countries don't consider marriage at all when assessing relationship status.


  • #27
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Why? Sex is not a human right.

    Plenty of countries don't consider marriage at all when assessing relationship status.

    Who mentioned sex?

    Article 8 of the European Convention of Human Rights establishes the right to respect of family life, which includes the right to live with ones nuclear family. Nuclear family is defined as spouse/partner and/or dependant children.


  • #28
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    368100 wrote: »
    She's not allowed to work for first 18 months.

    It's crazy, stopping someone from working, paying tax and supporting themselves ....while at same time worrying that they'd be an economic burden on state. Typical mindlessness (that's the polite version of wjat I wanted to say)
    It is a breach of European human rights so we're pushing that angle to get things moved on.
    They have 10 weeks from 1st March to make a decision on the appeal

    It’s as if none of you have ever heard of sham marriages.
    I’m a non EU person who would like to come and live in Rep of Ireland. I’ve heard that there’s a minimum wage there and employment rights and if the day comes when I can’t/don’t want to work then there’s a very generous SW system. All I have to do is marry an Irish person out here and I will get a visa to go to Ireland where I can go and pretend to live with him/her and claim SW and HAP while I look for work. Maybe I’ll find a job? Maybe I won’t...
    So I’ve gathered up $10000 to pay an Irish person to come out here and marry me in the town hall, I’ll be automatically granted a stamp 4 visa as the spouse of an Irish citizen and then we’ll return to Ireland where I can start my new life away from all this poverty.
    He/she can go their own way $10000 in pocket and it’s all good.


  • #29
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    splinter65 wrote: »
    It’s as if none of you have ever heard of sham marriages.
    I’m a non EU person who would like to come and live in Rep of Ireland. I’ve heard that there’s a minimum wage there and employment rights and if the day comes when I can’t/don’t want to work then there’s a very generous SW system. All I have to do is marry an Irish person out here and I will get a visa to go to Ireland where I can go and pretend to live with him/her and claim SW and HAP while I look for work. Maybe I’ll find a job? Maybe I won’t...
    So I’ve gathered up $10000 to pay an Irish person to come out here and marry me in the town hall, I’ll be automatically granted a stamp 4 visa as the spouse of an Irish citizen and then we’ll return to Ireland where I can start my new life away from all this poverty.
    He/she can go their own way $10000 in pocket and it’s all good.

    With all the poverty where are you going to get $10k?


  • #30
    splinter65
    Registered Users Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    godtabh wrote: »
    With all the poverty where are you going to get $10k?

    People will do desperate things when they are desperate. This is part of the reason why sham marriages are so strictly policed in this part of the world.
    Where do the African migrants trying to get to Western Europe by boat get the money to pay the people smugglers?


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  • #31
    6541
    Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭6541


    Caranica wrote:
    They can appeal if there were errors in the information submitted or if there have been changes in circumstances subsequent to the application that would have affected the outcome. IIRC there is a minimum income level the Irish/EU spouse must earn, was this the problem? Your post seems to suggest it might be if the concern is that his wife would be a burden on the state.


    Could he move over to her country ?


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