FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

Peatys · 12-02-2020 2:23pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

I mean opposition by definition is hurling from the ditch, why are people surprised that FG will do same as every other opposition party ever?

No surprise here

Plumbthedepths · 12-02-2020 2:23pm

whippet wrote: »

And if SF get in to their ministries they will do the exact same. They will roll out the excuses and blame and blame .. more whataboutery which they are already well versed.

SF never expected to be in this position so their manifesto was never realistic. They will no need to find some fall guys to take the heat when it all goes belly up

I find it funny people expect any difference tbh. I remember a line from the former FG TD Regina Doherty "who reads manifestos?".
Btw based on the numbers unless FF change their position SF ain't going to be in government.
New election is my guess unless of course FG comes back onto the pitch with FF and a.n.other party.

RandomName2 · 12-02-2020 2:25pm

satguy wrote: »

It seems FG will be very happy to just sit on their hands for 5 years. Would FG voters be happy with this, as it means all those FG votes mean nothing, and do nothing.

Having been in power for 9 years, they did nothing, people have no homes, people still on trollies.

FG may have given some of their rich buddies some tax breaks.

But other than that, they did what FG do best, are their poor hands not numb by now.

Sinn Fein contributions in the UK parliament were a thing to behold. Remember when they voted down Brexit? Not only that, but the amount that they have achieved up in Stormont in the last 3 years has been staggering. In the EU Parliament they took a leading role, while in our humble Dail they tabled multiple cross-party motions that are now law.

Wait, surely they must have done some of that, they were paid to do each of those things I mentioned.

Necro · 12-02-2020 2:27pm

RandomName2 wrote:

Sinn Fein contributions in the UK parliament were a thing to behold. Remember when they voted down Brexit? Not only that, but the amount that they have achieved up in Stormont in the last 3 years has been staggering. In the EU Parliament they took a leading role, while in our humble Dail they tabled multiple cross-party motions that are now law.

320 million wiped off the market in Irish shares at the mere thought of SF taking power.

Careful what you wish for SF voters, you just might get it.

risteard7 · 12-02-2020 2:29pm

FionnB wrote: »

I think you'll find that most people do have homes.

Anyone who decided to educate themselves and work will have a home. But hey let's give free houses to the long term unemployed first.

And lots not forget the poor homeless who would rather 20 cigarettes or a few cans over a bed for the night. Facilities are there for people who want to use them but sadly the majority dont.

Expecting Sinn Fein to work the economy is like expecting a first year to sit the Leaving Cert. Fun times ahead

Fred Cryton · 12-02-2020 2:29pm

Look it's going to be a FF/Greens/SocDems coalition with FG providing confidence and supply from the opposition benches. Labour fully in opposition.

This is the only possible outcome. Matt McGrath, Jim O Callaghhan, Jack Chambers have all said FF/SF not happening. Two thirds of FF members are against it as well.

eastie17 · 12-02-2020 2:31pm

Strategically what else should FG do?
SF have to be in Government and we have to see what they can or cant do and be judged accordingly. If either FF or FG go into them then when they cant deliver all that they have promised it will either FF or FG's fault.
If theres an FF/FG coalition then SF will get about 70 seats the next time UNLESS FF/FG fix health by carrying out MAJOR reform of the health service. I say major to the point of almost ripping it up and starting again which would never happen.
Housing is improving, and whoever is in power in about 2 years time will be get the benefit in the slow uptick in new completions and the start of the reduction in prices. However there will probably be a global recession around the same time so who ever's in then will get the blame for all that as well.
You would think that FG would get some credit for sticking to their line of not going into power with SF. With the smallest whiff of power FF couldnt help themselves.

I think alot of people with anyway decent jobs are afraid of the rhetoric from Sinn Fein about "wealth redistribution" and helping "working" people. Their definition of "working" people seems to be anyone making less than 40K or ironically anyone not working at all, in a country with full employment! The definition of "wealthy" seems to be any self employed or PAYE workers who have worked hard and had to cheek to make 80K plus a year. They will get crucified under SF and those people are already paying almost 50% of their wages in tax as it is.
The JP McManus's of the world arent going to be impacted by SF's policies.

McMurphy · 12-02-2020 2:32pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Next election FF and FG will run fewer candidates , maybe around 70 instead of 80. As a result they will both get more TD's elected due to fewer split votes. In addition, SF will run more candidates which will simply result in fewer PBP, SocDems, greens and Labour in the Dail.

We have just witnessed the very peak of SF support. Is there really anyone out there who will vote SF in the future who didn't at this election? Very much doubt it.

I'm basing my assumptions on the stats/trends. You're basing yours on wishful thinking presumably.

Compare the three party's seat share stats since 2011 - 2016 - 2020

And then argue with the stats rather than an anonymous username on the internet.

omega man · 12-02-2020 2:33pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Look it's going to be a FF/Greens/SocDems coalition with FG providing confidence and supply from the opposition benches. Labour fully in opposition.

This is the only outcome. Matt McGrath, Jim O Callaghhan, Jack Chambers have all said FF/SF not happening. Two thirds of FF members are against it as well.

SF would love that. More time on the opposition benches slinging mud instead of delivering leadership. They’ll say they were excluded by the ‘big boys’ in an attempt to fuel more support for the next election. Cop out.

Fred Cryton · 12-02-2020 2:33pm

McMurphy wrote: »

Compare the three party's seat share stats since 2011 - 2016 - 2020

And argue with the stats rather than an anonymous username on the internet.

Why did you start at 2011 and not 2002? FG are largely unchanged since 2002. Careful with your stats.

Eggs For Dinner · 12-02-2020 2:34pm

SF won their seats on the basis of promises they made to the Irish people. It is not the function of other parties to support them. Leo is right to let them off on their (doomed) quest

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 2:34pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Look it's going to be a FF/Greens/SocDems coalition with FG providing confidence and supply from the opposition benches.
.

I really don't get why FG are stepping back(well I have an idea), with so many problems to be solved and a viable coalition staring them right in the face.

Between the two of them, they'll do anything to keep the Punch and Judy show going. National interest be damned.

Plumbthedepths · 12-02-2020 2:34pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Look it's going to be a FF/Greens/SocDems coalition with FG providing confidence and supply from the opposition benches. Labour fully in opposition.

This is the only possible outcome. Matt McGrath, Jim O Callaghhan, Jack Chambers have all said FF/SF not happening. Two thirds of FF members are against it as well.

Does it, any links or is it guesswork on your part?

Idbatterim · 12-02-2020 2:35pm

Fg have to have a vote on their leader two months following an election I read earlier. If they want to make a recovery, get rid of Varadkar asap. FF are a farce, this country needs a FG, but not the **** that we have now. Myself and many I know, will not vote FG again, until he is gone!

320 million wiped off the market in Irish shares at the mere thought of SF taking power.

Careful what you wish for SF voters, you just might get it.

Meh! I run a company, the taxes many are paying, primarily the banks and the vulturne funds etc, are a pittance. I am prepared to call their bluff on this. We need a reasonable site levy, a lot of what SF have proposed, makes sense. We hit the working poor with a marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent, but the banks and vulture funds, etc, creaming it off from the workers, will dissapear when forced to increase the pittance they have to contribute? they wont. You cant make an omelette without breaking eggs. their threats are bull****, believe me.

I would summarise it very brielfly, that the piss taking, is going on at the top and also the "bottom" free houses, no lpt, medical card, free transport, all the cash benefits... The system here is just a farce! Politcally you can go after the "top" pretty easily, will anyone take on the "vulneable" though? What is the market rent of our social housing stock or market value? how much is this extremely expensive property portfolio being rented out at? a total pittance. the absolute pittance they pay, should be drastically increased and introduce a council tax too. There is a few billion to go towards reducing the marginal rate and massively increasing the amount of affordable housing we can provide and yeah, go after the top taking the piss and being facilitated in doing it too!

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 2:36pm

omega man wrote: »

SF would love that. More time on the opposition benches slinging mud instead of delivering leadership. They’ll say they were excluded by the ‘big boys’ in an attempt to fuel more support for the next election. Cop out.

You're seriously peddling that line when the outgoing FG cabinet are currently busy on Skyscanner looking at flights to Bali at the moment?

Fred Cryton · 12-02-2020 2:36pm

omega man wrote: »

SF would love that. More time on the opposition benches slinging mud instead of delivering leadership. They’ll say they were excluded by the ‘big boys’ in an attempt to fuel more support for the next election. Cop out.

Nah they sense power here they certainly wouldn't love to be shouting again from opposition for another 4 or 5 years.

If that government manages to cut taxes and build a fair chunk more social housing then we may well see this SF surge dissipate.

omega man · 12-02-2020 2:36pm

Yurt! wrote: »

I really don't get why FG are stepping back(well I have an idea), with so many problems to be solved and a viable coalition staring them right in the face.

Between the two of them, they'll do anything to keep the Punch and Judy show going. National interest be damned.

This is crazy logic. I thought the people voted for change and rejected FG & FF!!

Idbatterim · 12-02-2020 2:36pm

Necro wrote: »

320 million wiped off the market in Irish shares at the mere thought of SF taking power.

Careful what you wish for SF voters, you just might get it.

yeah? and how much are working people being bled dry on rip off property prices every year? 320,000,000 is a drop in the ocean!

Jinglejangle69 · 12-02-2020 2:36pm

Haha ah lads.

SF supporters screaming for years that Leo and FG need to go.

They get booted out and now their whinging FG won't form a government!!

WTF like!!??

Tacitus Kilgore · 12-02-2020 2:37pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Fg have to have a vote on their leader two months following an election I read earlier. If they want to make a recovery, get rid of Varadkar asap. FF are a farce, this country needs a FG, but not the **** that we have now. Myself and many I know, will not vote FG again, until he is gone!

Meh! I run a company, the taxes many are paying, primarily the banks and the vulturne funds etc, are a pittance. I am prepared to call their bluff on this. We need a reasonable site levy, a lot of what SF have proposed, makes sense. We hit the working poor with a marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent, but the banks and vulture funds, etc, creaming it off from the workers, will dissapear when forced to increase the pittance they have to contribute? they wont. You cant make an omelette without breaking eggs. their threats are bull****, believe me.

The bolded bit isn't true.

Necro · 12-02-2020 2:37pm

Idbatterim wrote:

Meh! I run a company, the taxes many are paying, primarily the banks and the vulturne funds etc, are a pittance. I am prepared to call their bluff on this. We need a reasonable site levy, a lot of what SF have proposed, makes sense. We hit the working poor with a marginal tax rate of FIFTY percent, but the banks and vulture funds, etc, creaming it off from the workers, will dissapear when forced to increase the pittance they have to contribute? they wont. You cant make an omelette without breaking eggs. their threats are bull****, believe me.

Sinn Feins policies want to tax the rich
And at the same time fix the health system by employing more doctors and consultants who will be in that very tax bracket

How does that make any sense

And that's just one of their mental plans

Anyways this is a thread about FG not SF

JohnnyFlash · 12-02-2020 2:38pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

He posted up the number of new builds on twitter yesterday and was absolutely hammered for it, Twitter users told him to go way that he and FG were done.

The two larger parties have not contacted FG seeking to form a government, nothing he can do.

The electorate have voted for change, let them have change. If anything he’s being gracious in defeat.

Now it’s time for SF to shine, let them deliver on the promises they made to their voters.

That’s the one. FG went to the people with a message about balanced budgets, economic growth, and prudent investments in service and infrastructure improvements.

That was rejected by the electorate and FG had their 2nd worst result ever. There’s no mandate for more of the same.

FG now have to spend time in opposition and consider what the party is about and who they represent. Rebuilding and all that jazz.

It’s highly ironic that those who were so keen to see the back of them (including on this forum) are now so tetchy about the idea of FG spending time in opposition.

Things worked out exactly as people wanted. Opposition isn’t doing nothing. It’s an essential part of democracy.

Thisonedone · 12-02-2020 2:39pm

storker wrote: »

And FG.

"Not another red cent"
"I will end the scandal of patients on trolleys"

And the usc lie. And the lie about being the party for people who get up early in the morning.

Fr_Dougal · 12-02-2020 2:40pm

Yurt! wrote: »

I really don't get why FG are stepping back(well I have an idea), with so many problems to be solved and a viable coalition staring them right in the face.

I’m going to quote this one back to you if FG are approached by one of the two larger parties and go into government.

I have a feeling your stance will change if that happens.

dxhound2005 · 12-02-2020 2:40pm

McMurphy wrote: »

I'm basing my assumptions on the stats/trends. You're basing yours on wishful thinking presumably.

Compare the three party's seat share stats since 2011 - 2016 - 2020

And then argue with the stats rather than an anonymous username on the internet.

I don't think we have a hard left Republican Socialist core vote all of a sudden. When ordinary people find out that some of the ones who could be in government want to seize all their private property, they won't vote that direction again.

The electorate has proved very volatile since 2007. The extra 6,000 first preferences the SF woman in Kildare got even though she went on holdays during the campaign, is not a core SF vote.

I Am The Law · 12-02-2020 2:41pm

Fred Cryton wrote: »

Look it's going to be a FF/Greens/SocDems coalition with FG providing confidence and supply from the opposition benches. Labour fully in opposition.

This is the only possible outcome. Matt McGrath, Jim O Callaghhan, Jack Chambers have all said FF/SF not happening. Two thirds of FF members are against it as well.

Followed by SF overall majority the next time, without the hinderance of Greens SocDems.

Yurt2 · 12-02-2020 2:41pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Haha ah lads.

SF supporters screaming for years that Leo and FG need to go.

They get booted out and now their whinging FG won't form a government!!

WTF like!!??

I want the current FG crop a million miles from the cabinet table. But it's very instructive that they've clearly clocked out when they could very clearly be in the hunt to form part of a government if they wanted to.

They are doing the very thing they spent years telling the electorate the left did.

Truly a bunch of wasters

is_that_so · 12-02-2020 2:41pm

Yurt! wrote: »

I really don't get why FG are stepping back(well I have an idea), with so many problems to be solved and a viable coalition staring them right in the face.

Between the two of them, they'll do anything to keep the Punch and Judy show going. National interest be damned.

This is a very bizarre stance seeing as they have been rejected by the electorate. Even MLM claims SF won the election so it is up to them and FF to a lesser extent. You can hardly point the finger at the other two when SF left up to 10 seats on the pitch. There is no viable coalition for FG, certainly not one its members would accept.

dwmcdos · 12-02-2020 2:42pm

Why only 5 years? Sure they can have 50 years if they want.

Idbatterim · 12-02-2020 2:43pm

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

The bolded bit isn't true.

yes it is, you might not agree 35,000 being working poor, but it is in dublin... I offer staff extra hours and the vast majority wont take it at E35 an hour, due to the marginal rate. Its outrageous, that rate of penal tax , from that low an income! FG a party for workers and enterprise !!! LOL! LOL!

FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

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