The hub controller

dingdong1234567 · 18-09-2019 8:58pm

So the hub controller has now been like this for 5 days. Switching the switched spur off beside it does not cut the power which leads me to believe it's not wired through the switch spur beside the unit. This is poor installation. The previous analogue clock was controlled by the switch spur......

As regards the actual hub controller, complete and utter scrap. It will be coming out asap, it has not been used 3 times and now the screen is purple and does not respond. Overall terrible installation and execution.

chuck eastwood · 18-09-2019 10:00pm

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

So the hub controller has now been like this for 5 days. Switching the switched spur off beside it does not cut the power which leads me to believe it's not wired through the switch spur beside the unit. This is poor installation. The previous analogue clock was controlled by the switch spur......

As regards the actual hub controller, complete and utter scrap. It will be coming out asap, it has not been used 3 times and now the screen is purple and does not respond. Overall terrible installation and execution.

Have you powered down the unit to restart ? . As far as where it takes it's power from its pretty much irrelevant as long as the supply point is coming from a rated breaker.

dingdong1234567 · 18-09-2019 10:10pm

chuck eastwood wrote: »

Have you powered down the unit to restart ? . As far as where it takes it's power from its pretty much irrelevant as long as the supply point is coming from a rated breaker.

How can it powered down if it's not wired through the existing switched spur? If you mean cut the power by tripping the breaker to reset this thing then your mad in the head. Shouldn't have to do that in fairness. And I won't be doing it either.

ted1 · 18-09-2019 10:16pm

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

How can it powered down if it's not wired through the existing switched spur? If you mean cut the power by tripping the breaker to reset this thing then your mad in the head. Shouldn't have to do that in fairness. And I won't be doing it either.

Might there be a battery backup?

Why is he mad in the head? A power cycle generally restarts it. Tripping a MCB, isn’t that much if a task

chuck eastwood · 18-09-2019 10:26pm

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

How can it powered down if it's not wired through the existing switched spur? If you mean cut the power by tripping the breaker to reset this thing then your mad in the head. Shouldn't have to do that in fairness. And I won't be doing it either.

Mad in the head, Don't be so dramatic. You do realize there is no difference to the unit as to how you disconnect and connect the power? . Would you rather look foolish when the installer comes out and restarts the unit only for it to work fine ?. Also as far as i am aware the is no regulation that stats a heating controller must have a switched spur feeding it. When people try to offer advice the advice given is often easier to follow than it is to sit in a cold house for days raging for no reason. If you can't spend 3 mins trying something simple to reset then unit then you are better off getting the installer back instead losing the head here.

deezell · 18-09-2019 11:36pm

Jump back to post #64 where I explain how the Hub controller is powered. It uses the fact that when it is not calling the boiler there will be 220v across its relay contacts, mains on one terminal, the other terminal to the boiker/ pump or zone valve and back to Neutral. It can tap a low current from this to keep its internal battery charged. As long as you don't turn off the power which supplies the boiler/ zone valve via the stat it will always have a charge source. When the contacts close on a call for heat it relies on it's internal battery, but no stat is on for very long, so when the contacts open when target temperature is reached, it will resume charging.
Now if the live to your stat originally came from a timer, electronic or notch mechanical type, and you've not set this to always on or turned it off for the summer via a wall switch, there will be no mains voltage present at the contact pin of the Hub stat to siphon off power for its internal battery. It will eventually go flat, and the stat may take some time to charge up again when mains is restored. If the internal battery has been in a long state of discharge it may not recover. This might explain the behaviour of your hub stat. It does not take a live and neutral power supply like the timer did, so it can be installed as a direct replacement for 2 wire mechanical stats without the need for replaceable batteries and without having to run a mains Neutral wire to it. This feature is about the only novel thing this stat has going for it, in every other respect it is rudimentary and un-smart.
Further reading here;
https://www.thehubcontroller.com/site/uploads/trade/installation-manual-v3szsept-17.pdf

dingdong1234567 · 19-09-2019 3:44pm

chuck eastwood wrote: »

Mad in the head, Don't be so dramatic. You do realize there is no difference to the unit as to how you disconnect and connect the power? . Would you rather look foolish when the installer comes out and restarts the unit only for it to work fine ?. Also as far as i am aware the is no regulation that stats a heating controller must have a switched spur feeding it. When people try to offer advice the advice given is often easier to follow than it is to sit in a cold house for days raging for no reason. If you can't spend 3 mins trying something simple to reset then unit then you are better off getting the installer back instead losing the head here.

Calm down petal.

ted1 · 19-09-2019 5:29pm

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

Calm down petal.

He has a point. You were being over dramatic..

chuck eastwood · 19-09-2019 10:13pm

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

Calm down petal.

Your lack of understanding of basic electrics isn't countered by juvenile replies. Again, dramatics only work on the tinternet. It won't fix your cheap heating system

dingdong1234567 · 25-09-2019 9:52pm

chuck eastwood wrote: »

Your lack of understanding of basic electrics isn't countered by juvenile replies. Again, dramatics only work on the tinternet. It won't fix your cheap heating system

I'll leave the juvenile comments to you. If you have nothing positive to add then you are best to say *uck all.

chuck eastwood · 25-09-2019 10:28pm

dingdong1234567 wrote: »

I'll leave the juvenile comments to you. If you have nothing positive to add then you are best to say *uck all.

Again and as others have pointed out it was a tad dramatic. I offered you advice based on the current situation you found yourself in. With good will and very simple instructions you refused to even consider doing exactly what a service tech would do (I am service/maintenance tech by trade) so you can or should be able to understand why other are bemused by your response to a straight forward and basic instruction that any how soap could follow to maybe get your heating up and running without calling in help.
I have often asked simple question here only to be schooled by very helpful boards members with simple answers. Genuinely don't know what you expect when you ask a question? . Anyway. Did you get it fixed

AndrewJRenko · 25-01-2020 5:05pm

We just had our first boiler service after having the Hub Controller for about a year. The engineer tells us that it is wired incorrectly. It should have a permanent live power output to the boiler, but it is switching the boiler completely off every time. The blue light on the boiler goes out, and the boiler pump doesn't have the chance to run for a few minutes to cool everything down. There are some signs of bumps on the heat exchanger, which he suspects is due to it not cooling down properly.

Did anyone else have this problem?

deezell · 26-01-2020 2:23am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We just had our first boiler service after having the Hub Controller for about a year. The engineer tells us that it is wired incorrectly. It should have a permanent live power output to the boiler, but it is switching the boiler completely off every time. The blue light on the boiler goes out, and the boiler pump doesn't have the chance to run for a few minutes to cool everything down. There are some signs of bumps on the heat exchanger, which he suspects is due to it not cooling down properly.

Did anyone else have this problem?

Did hub controller install this? Time to get a solicitor. Their vague claims of savings and the other sh1te put forward here by converts will fall a long way short of cost of fixing the exchanger. Complete amateur installation. Its not just the pump that should post run, it's the blower on the burner. Only very old boilers our in sheds operated on a single SL connection.

dingdong1234567 · 26-01-2020 10:12am

deezell wrote: »

Did hub controller install this? Time to get a solicitor. Their vague claims of savings and the other sh1te put forward here by converts will fall a long way short of cost of fixing the exchanger. Complete amateur installation. Its not just the pump that should post run, it's the blower on the burner. Only very old boilers our in sheds operated on a single SL connection.

Well said.

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2020 4:59pm

deezell wrote: »

Did hub controller install this? Time to get a solicitor. Their vague claims of savings and the other sh1te put forward here by converts will fall a long way short of cost of fixing the exchanger. Complete amateur installation. Its not just the pump that should post run, it's the blower on the burner. Only very old boilers our in sheds operated on a single SL connection.

Yep, their own installation.

What do you mean by 'single SL connection' please?

deezell · 26-01-2020 7:05pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Yep, their own installation.

What do you mean by 'single SL connection' please?

This is when the Switched Live (SL) mains voltage signal from the thermostat/timer is used not just to tell the boiler to fire, but to actually power the boiler from cold. Certain old boilers would be wired like this, no permanent live to the boiler to keep its controller in standby, just a single live cable, like turning a lamp on and off. Boilers benefit from having a permanent supply, so after the stat cuts out, the boiler can cut the flame, but keep the fan running to purge fumes, keep the pump running to cool the baffles and exchanger. Also, they run the fan and fire up the igniter briefly prior to opening the fuel valve. Modern condensor boilers have lots of electronics, they need power all the time. Older boilers, especially outdoor types, had burners that were just powered on and off.

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2020 10:58pm

deezell wrote: »

This is when the Switched Live (SL) mains voltage signal from the thermostat/timer is used not just to tell the boiler to fire, but to actually power the boiler from cold. Certain old boilers would be wired like this, no permanent live to the boiler to keep its controller in standby, just a single live cable, like turning a lamp on and off. Boilers benefit from having a permanent supply, so after the stat cuts out, the boiler can cut the flame, but keep the fan running to purge fumes, keep the pump running to cool the baffles and exchanger. Also, they run the fan and fire up the igniter briefly prior to opening the fuel valve. Modern condensor boilers have lots of electronics, they need power all the time. Older boilers, especially outdoor types, had burners that were just powered on and off.

Thanks, very helpful

fitzparker · 10-03-2020 3:03pm

Can someone help answer.

The guy came to install this last week, he advised that this turns on both hot water and heating (we never use hot water) so my wife was hesitant and rushing out the door, so didn't go ahead with it.

is this correct about hot water? does it make much of a difference in using up oil if both were on? on our current thermostat we can switch water/heating oil on separately.

deezell · 10-03-2020 5:35pm

fitzparker wrote: »

Can someone help answer.

The guy came to install this last week, he advised that this turns on both hot water and heating (we never use hot water) so my wife was hesitant and rushing out the door, so didn't go ahead with it.

is this correct about hot water? does it make much of a difference in using up oil if both were on? on our current thermostat we can switch water/heating oil on separately.

You've just downgraded to a single zone system from a 2 zone. Those guys have no shame. Hub controller is just a CH stat, and he would have wired it to heat the HW cylinder every time it came on to heat the CH, or somthing like that. Worse, if you just wanted to heat HW using oil boiler in the summer, you'd be heating the CH as well.
I'm curious, you "never use hot water". Do you, like, take cold showers? Or do you heat the cylinder from an electric immersion element?

ted1 · 11-03-2020 9:49am

deezell wrote: »

I'm curious, you "never use hot water". Do you, like, take cold showers? Or do you heat the cylinder from an electric immersion element?

We are similar. Use an electric shower. But our heating is just 1 zone so don’t want to heat the house in the summer to get hot water.

deezell · 11-03-2020 10:25am

ted1 wrote: »

We are similar. Use an electric shower. But our heating is just 1 zone so don’t want to heat the house in the summer to get hot water.

The installation of a 2 port zone valve for fully pumped systems or just using the stat relay to operate the pump on gravity HW systems is enough to ensure that you can heat the HW independently of CH in both cases, and vice versa with a 3 port valve, CH without HW. There's no huge cost penalty if your HW cylinder is heating while CH is on, unless your cylinder is uninsulated in a draughty press or the attic, but you don't want the rads on in the summer while heating a few gallons of HW. It would be money well spent on getting your system to have 2 zones, CH and HW, and then a smart stat on the CH part. For some cowboy to come along and downgrade a 2 zone system back to one because his dubious 'smart' stat is as smart as a light switch is just unacceptable. Tado, Nest, Hive, Drayton all can operate in two zone mode with their HW+CH relays. EPH ember is not 'smart', but it is internet capable and easily operates 2 or 3 zones.

fitzparker · 11-03-2020 11:41am

deezell wrote: »

You've just downgraded to a single zone system from a 2 zone. Those guys have no shame. Hub controller is just a CH stat, and he would have wired it to heat the HW cylinder every time it came on to heat the CH, or somthing like that. Worse, if you just wanted to heat HW using oil boiler in the summer, you'd be heating the CH as well.
I'm curious, you "never use hot water". Do you, like, take cold showers? Or do you heat the cylinder from an electric immersion element?

We didnt end up getting it, didn't actually think of it the other way which is worse (hot water for the summer means CH comes on aswell)
now we will definitely not get it.

Never use hot water meaning we only use electric shower, maybe used the bath twice in 3 years.

im new to this, so if im looking for something similar I need a 2 zone system, would that be right?

fitzparker · 11-03-2020 11:43am

deezell wrote: »

The installation of a 2 port zone valve for fully pumped systems or just using the stat relay to operate the pump on gravity HW systems is enough to ensure that you can heat the HW independently of CH in both cases, and vice versa with a 3 port valve, CH without HW. There's no huge cost penalty if your HW cylinder is heating while CH is on, unless your cylinder is uninsulated in a draughty press or the attic, but you don't want the rads on in the summer while heating a few gallons of HW. It would be money well spent on getting your system to have 2 zones, CH and HW, and then a smart stat on the CH part. For some cowboy to come along and downgrade a 2 zone system back to one because his dubious 'smart' stat is as smart as a light switch is just unacceptable. Tado, Nest, Hive, Drayton all can operate in two zone mode with their HW+CH relays. EPH ember is not 'smart', but it is internet capable and easily operates 2 or 3 zones.

Totally missed this post which answered my question, ill look into these. Thanks

ddub11 · 14-10-2020 6:37pm

Got hub installed yesterday and seemed to work fine.

came home today and the control panel screen is Blank/Black.Its as if theres no power going into it (which there is)has anybody any idea whats wrong here?thanks.

Gerard93 · 14-10-2020 7:15pm

ddub11 wrote: »

Got hub installed yesterday and seemed to work fine.

came home today and the control panel screen is Blank/Black.Its as if theres no power going into it (which there is)has anybody any idea whats wrong here?thanks.

Try reset remove the Hub from the base if you have the plastic removal tool you should be able to do with this

You may need to pair your hub with your phone again after this

WestWicklow1 · 14-10-2020 8:47pm

ddub11 wrote: »

Got hub installed yesterday and seemed to work fine.

came home today and the control panel screen is Blank/Black.Its as if theres no power going into it (which there is)has anybody any idea whats wrong here?thanks.

I found the only way to get over the constant problems with this hub was to reinstall my old controller :mad:

deezell · 14-10-2020 10:59pm

ddub11 wrote: »

Got hub installed yesterday and seemed to work fine.

came home today and the control panel screen is Blank/Black.Its as if theres no power going into it (which there is)has anybody any idea whats wrong here?thanks.

Has your device a fully wired mains supply, live and neutral, as well as a SL wire to the boiler, or has it been wired with just the two wires from a previous old stat? Without a mains live and neutral wire, to keep its battery charged, this stat needs a live voltage on one terminal, and a reasonable load on the other, such as a boiler pump. When the relay is open, the stat can siphon power from the mains voltage difference across the terminals to trickle charge a battery. If your boiler is fired by closing a low voltage or volt free input, there may be low or insufficient voltage across the stat terminals when open, so the device battery will go flat. Check how many wires are connected inside.
It might just be a dud also, most electronic devices, if they're going to fail, will do so early in their life.

dingdong1234567 · 15-10-2020 7:52pm

I removed this thing ages ago. Screen went black and no chance of getting it fixed. So whipped it off and reinstalled the old timer clock. Pure gimmick.

ddub11 · 15-10-2020 8:44pm

deezell wrote: »

Has your device a fully wired mains supply, live and neutral, as well as a SL wire to the boiler, or has it been wired with just the two wires from a previous old stat? Without a mains live and neutral wire, to keep its battery charged, this stat needs a live voltage on one terminal, and a reasonable load on the other, such as a boiler pump. When the relay is open, the stat can siphon power from the mains voltage difference across the terminals to trickle charge a battery. If your boiler is fired by closing a low voltage or volt free input, there may be low or insufficient voltage across the stat terminals when open, so the device battery will go flat. Check how many wires are connected inside.
It might just be a dud also, most electronic devices, if they're going to fail, will do so early in their life.

Done a bit of research and seems it needed a reboot,all i did was removed the unit from its harness(what ever its called)with the tool provided ,clicked it back on and it works no problem.

Not sure why it went like that but everything works fine now,early days but it seems a handy device to have and easy to use.

Seems some people arent happy with it but im happy to give it a go and see how it goes,anyway thanks for the reply.

davegilly · 15-10-2020 8:55pm

ddub11 wrote: »

Not sure why it went like that but everything works fine now,early days but it seems a handy device to have and easy to use.

Failed software update is what they told me waa the reason for the black screen. Rebooted and all ok since!

The hub controller

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