Home heating automation

Del Griffith · 11-03-2020 10:14am

Have an issue with our nest, had a sparks nice the heatlinks yesterday and the boiler was on all night even though both nests were set to off. They are still connected as when I switch onto manual on the heatlink third displays on the nest, so not a disconnected nest and heatlink. Googling brings up nothing of value. Bacteria cleaning is off. I've restarted both. Any ideas?

Wheety · 11-03-2020 5:08pm

deezell wrote: »

Value for money, easy install (especially if your current system has only timing with no wall stats), and can add smart TRV heads in place of mechanical ones, I'd pick Drayton Wiser Kit 3. Hive also is similar, wireless stats for CH zones and timing schedule for HW, can add Smart TRVs. HIVE available free if you switch to Bord Gais.

The only Hive deal I know of when switching is 'One Big Switch' but this does not include any home heating equipment. Unless you count the hub.

deezell · 11-03-2020 10:56pm

deezell · 11-03-2020 11:15pm

Del Griffith wrote: »

....had a sparks nice the heatlinks yesterday.......?
..... when I switch onto manual on the heatlink third displays on the nest,......?

Maybe describe it a bit clearer.
You have two nests?
The boiler is firing all the time?
The 'third' means the lower (HW) indicator lamp?
Do you have Nest controlled HW?
Does the boiler continue to fire if power is removed from the heatlinks?
What exactly did the sparks do?
Without knowing anything about your system, I'm guessing 3 zones, 2 CH, 1 HW. Check if a zone valve is stuck open, keeping the boiler on.

Wheety · 12-03-2020 1:11pm

deezell wrote: »

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Interesting. Think I'd have to do my Maths first. 24 month contract but discounts are only for 12. Other deal seems much better.

Del Griffith · 13-03-2020 1:59pm

deezell wrote: »

Maybe describe it a bit clearer.
You have two nests?
The boiler is firing all the time?
The 'third' means the lower (HW) indicator lamp?
Do you have Nest controlled HW?
Does the boiler continue to fire if power is removed from the heatlinks?
What exactly did the sparks do?
Without knowing anything about your system, I'm guessing 3 zones, 2 CH, 1 HW. Check if a zone valve is stuck open, keeping the boiler on.

Sorry about lack of clarity.

Yes we've two Nest's, one for downstairs and one for upstairs, so have 2 zones plus HW.

The heatlinks were in a prominent place in the kitchen so we had a sparks move them to the utility room. Since the move, both Nests and Heatlinks appear to be working normally, both are sync'd and communicating, however the heat never goes off downstairs. So currently I turn off at the boiler.

I've restarted, reset, reinstalled, but nothing helping.

I'm presuming now that when re-wired, something is wired or not wired where it shouldnt be?

deezell · 13-03-2020 2:38pm

Del Griffith wrote: »

Sorry about lack of clarity.

Yes we've two Nest's, one for downstairs and one for upstairs, so have 2 zones plus HW.

The heatlinks were in a prominent place in the kitchen so we had a sparks move them to the utility room. Since the move, both Nests and Heatlinks appear to be working normally, both are sync'd and communicating, however the heat never goes off downstairs. So currently I turn off at the boiler.

I've restarted, reset, reinstalled, but nothing helping.

I'm presuming now that when re-wired, something is wired or not wired where it shouldnt be?

Spot on. Get the sparks back. I'm guessing he miswired a wire from Normally open (NO) to normally closed (NC) on one of the heatlinks, so the zone is on when it should be off, and vice versa. Common mistake.

reignschaos · 17-03-2020 12:00am

@Caillte For a tenner I was thinking of doing the upgrade too. Have until the end of the month. As @Deezell said, let us know what you think.

deezell · 17-03-2020 8:13am

reignschaos wrote: »

@Caillte For a tenner I was thinking of doing the upgrade too. Have until the end of the month. As @Deezell said, let us know what you think.

I hadn't realized the offer was time limited. After that I presume upgrading the app means an optional sub for the geofencing and open window detection features. Here's a very good review of the app from a year ago.
https://youtu.be/TJZVQkIpQLU
Just under 20 minutes, covers near everything. He highlights a few anomalies between old and new, and some features which have not transferred to the new app but some have to the new web version, (your web version upgrades also if you get the new app). Review is a year old, so maybe these features have since been added, specifically, the option on manual control to end with next scheduled event can only be set from the web version, and you can't swipe between zones on the new app, you must return back to the zone plan view.
What do I think? I can't risk the grief of the new interface on Swmbo, she has a fit if something changes unnecessarily on tech, blames me for meddling. (She lost her Tado interface yesterday, apparently became logged out of the app, looked like it was reinstalled to me. Had to reset her password to recover, and thankfully it was the old app that showed up on sign in. Methinks she was meddling, but pleads the fifth when I press. Hee hee, one nil to me).
That reason apart, I'm not convinved yet. If its not broke, etc..., but then I'm becoming senior, getting impatient with constant change. This happens when you age, right now I feel like coronavirus fodder, so it's hard to make this decision just yet, as it's irreversible.
Actually, the reviewer states it is reversible through a glitch in App store policy which allows you to reverse a purchase and remove an app, thereby restoring the old version. So watch the youtube and judge for yourself. You'll have plenty of time to decide when we're in lockdown in a few more days.😦

xckjoo · 17-03-2020 1:35pm

More of an FYI than anything, but I needed a room thermometer so picked up the Xiaomi Mijia Bluetooth one and added it to my home assistant set up. Figured it might be useful as a sensor for heating control at some stage. It's far too inconsistent though. HA regularly can't contact it so temperatures don't update. Could be my set up but other people have had the same problem on the HA forum. Anyway, I'll invest in something a bit more reliable for heating automation when I eventually get around to it

irelandrover · 17-03-2020 1:50pm

reignschaos wrote: »

@Caillte For a tenner I was thinking of doing the upgrade too. Have until the end of the month. As @Deezell said, let us know what you think.

I've been using the new app for 2 months now. The overview screen is a big improvement on the old app i find. I'm liking the new app a lot more than i expected. I don't realy find anything i miss from the old app.

reignschaos · 17-03-2020 2:56pm

deezell wrote: »

I hadn't realized the offer was time limited. After that I presume upgrading the app means an optional sub for the geofencing and open window detection features. Here's a very good review of the app from a year ago.
https://youtu.be/TJZVQkIpQLU
Just under 20 minutes, covers near everything. He highlights a few anomalies between old and new, and some features which have not transferred to the new app but some have to the new web version, (your web version upgrades also if you get the new app). Review is a year old, so maybe these features have since been added, specifically, the option on manual control to end with next scheduled event can only be set from the web version, and you can't swipe between zones on the new app, you must return back to the zone plan view.
What do I think? I can't risk the grief of the new interface on Swmbo, she has a fit if something changes unnecessarily on tech, blames me for meddling. (She lost her Tado interface yesterday, apparently became logged out of the app, looked like it was reinstalled to me. Had to reset her password to recover, and thankfully it was the old app that showed up on sign in. Methinks she was meddling, but pleads the fifth when I press. Hee hee, one nil to me).
That reason apart, I'm not convinved yet. If its not broke, etc..., but then I'm becoming senior, getting impatient with constant change. This happens when you age, right now I feel like coronavirus fodder, so it's hard to make this decision just yet, as it's irreversible.
Actually, the reviewer states it is reversible through a glitch in App store policy which allows you to reverse a purchase and remove an app, thereby restoring the old version. So watch the youtube and judge for yourself. You'll have plenty of time to decide when we're in lockdown in a few more days.😦

They had some server problems yesterday and some people got logged out of their apps, some didn't. To be fair to Tado, first time I've seen it in over a year, their communication about the issue was great - I got a some eMails about it, stating, issue noted, investigating, partial fix, fixed. They resolved the issue fast.

I do like the room dashboard, but if my memory serves there was lack of functionality relating to ad-hoc turn on / off scenarios.

Caillte · 25-03-2020 5:43pm

FYI,

Tado wall thermostat currently 50% off at amazon.

Caillte · 25-03-2020 5:48pm

irelandrover wrote: »

I've been using the new app for 2 months now. The overview screen is a big improvement on the old app i find. I'm liking the new app a lot more than i expected. I don't realy find anything i miss from the old app.

Totally agree, they only just added the call for heat symbol (low, medium, high) into the new app and also manual away/home setting too.

Totally worth the upgrade for pre v3+ users.

Caillte · 25-03-2020 5:55pm

Also for those of you using camel camel camel they are no longer tracking price changes on request of amazon. I didnt get any email only spotted it when i logged on their website to see where the thermostat was currently priced.

GarIT · 25-03-2020 6:14pm

Caillte wrote: »

Also for those of you using camel camel camel they are no longer tracking price changes on request of amazon. I didnt get any email only spotted it when i logged on their website to see where the thermostat was currently priced.

I wonder why they would do that

deezell · 26-03-2020 1:07am

GarIT wrote: »

I wonder why they would do that

Sez they;

In response to the COVID-19 crisis, Amazon has asked us to stop updating products in Europe until further notice. Stay safe out there.

In response ro the Covid-19 crisis, i have decided to wear odd socks. Makes as much sense.

dam099 · 26-03-2020 9:23pm

deezell wrote: »

Sez they;

In response to the COVID-19 crisis, Amazon has asked us to stop updating products in Europe until further notice. Stay safe out there.

In response ro the Covid-19 crisis, i have decided to wear odd socks. Makes as much sense.

They explain their rationale here: https://camelcamelcamel.com/blog/amazon-eu-covid-19

Not an expert but sounds plausible.

paddyb · 06-04-2020 1:55pm

Anyone switched from EPH/Ember to another system. We have two heating zones and hot water - is it just a matter of a new controller, thermostat etc or is it a bigger job (can they re-use the valves/switches for the existing zones or would they need to be changed).

deezell · 06-04-2020 3:36pm

paddyb wrote: »

Anyone switched from EPH/Ember to another system. We have two heating zones and hot water - is it just a matter of a new controller, thermostat etc or is it a bigger job (can they re-use the valves/switches for the existing zones or would they need to be changed).

The best smart solution for an existing Ember 3 zone is the Drayton Kit 3. You just need to swap the wall controller, a simple wiring job.

Caillte · 07-04-2020 2:07pm

paddyb wrote: »

Anyone switched from EPH/Ember to another system. We have two heating zones and hot water - is it just a matter of a new controller, thermostat etc or is it a bigger job (can they re-use the valves/switches for the existing zones or would they need to be changed).

I swapped out EPH my sytem to tado. But the EPH controller was left as is and switched to always on. Works a treat.

Ush1 · 07-04-2020 2:34pm

paddyb wrote: »

Anyone switched from EPH/Ember to another system. We have two heating zones and hot water - is it just a matter of a new controller, thermostat etc or is it a bigger job (can they re-use the valves/switches for the existing zones or would they need to be changed).

I have the same setup and looking at replacing the Ember controller and stats. You would leave in place the wiring hub which controls the motorised valves and just swap out the controls as had been said.

paddyb · 07-04-2020 8:07pm

Thanks had a look at the Drayton site and it looks like their controller will slot on to the wiring back panel of the eph so no wiring will be needed

paulgrogan.eu · 07-04-2020 8:17pm

deezell wrote: »

No, but you can wire a simple mechanical stat fitted to the HW cylinder into the ext kit HW SL output, this will cut the boiler when the cylinder reaches the temperature on the stat. Otherwise the HW will heat until it approaches the boiler temperature, at which point the boiler will cycle on/off until the HW timer event ends.

The Tado app has boost for all zones, just tap on the zones display to enter manual mode and the default duration and temperature (ch zones) will show. Duration can be a preset time, at the next scheduled event, or manual end by user.

Hi Deezell,

Sorry to dig up an old post. One thing I forgot to ask on this was what types of mechanical stats you would recommend for a HW tank? I don't have anything on my tank at the moment to regulate the temp, other than a big tap to open or close the amount of hot water fed into it and we've guessed the temp of the water by running the hot tap and measuring. I also agree that we probably don't need regular smart access to this information, just set it and leave it, and adjust it if going away or whatever. Do you have a particular one that you would recommend, as we are aiming to get our Tado and new valves installed in the coming months so we can have control over our heating, as over this winter it was all over the place!

Cheers

Paul.

deezell · 07-04-2020 10:34pm

paulgrogan.eu wrote: »

Hi Deezell,

Sorry to dig up an old post. One thing I forgot to ask on this was what types of mechanical stats you would recommend for a HW tank? I don't have anything on my tank at the moment to regulate the temp, other than a big tap to open or close the amount of hot water fed into it and we've guessed the temp of the water by running the hot tap and measuring. I also agree that we probably don't need regular smart access to this information, just set it and leave it, and adjust it if going away or whatever. Do you have a particular one that you would recommend, as we are aiming to get our Tado and new valves installed in the coming months so we can have control over our heating, as over this winter it was all over the place!

Cheers

Paul.

Cylimder stat like this. You strap it to tank, if the tank is a foam insulated one you cut a stat shaped hole in it.
This is the only place I've found still delivering online sales. Woodie's, Screwfix were overwhelmed with onl8ne orders.
https://www.mcmahons.ie/cylinder-pipe-thermostat

deezell · 07-04-2020 10:51pm

paddyb wrote: »

Thanks had a look at the Drayton site and it looks like their controller will slot on to the wiring back panel of the eph so no wiring will be needed

Looks can be deceptive. Drayton use the same backing plate as a 2 zone standard controller with the terminals reassigned. EPH use a backplate with 2 additional terminals for the extra zone.

WISER 3 ZONE

EPH3 ZONE

paddyb · 08-04-2020 2:58pm

Thanks for checking that - their video made it look so simple! Still not a big job I guess but I would get someone to do this for me rather than messing around with the wiring

https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/node/24

paulgrogan.eu · 08-04-2020 3:59pm

deezell wrote: »

Cylimder stat like this. You strap it to tank, if the tank is a foam insulated one you cut a stat shaped hole in it.
This is the only place I've found still delivering online sales. Woodie's, Screwfix were overwhelmed with onl8ne orders.
https://www.mcmahons.ie/cylinder-pipe-thermostat

Awesome, thank you for that.

One other question. Am I missing something, or will Tado not keep firing the boiler every time the tank drops even 1 deg below the set temp on that Thermostat? Say I set it to 60 deg, if the tank drops to 59 deg, will it fire the boiler to bring it back up again?

Cheers

deezell · 08-04-2020 4:55pm

paulgrogan.eu wrote: »

Awesome, thank you for that.

One other question. Am I missing something, or will Tado not keep firing the boiler every time the tank drops even 1 deg below the set temp on that Thermostat? Say I set it to 60 deg, if the tank drops to 59 deg, will it fire the boiler to bring it back up again?

Cheers

No, these are mechanical stats. Firstly, Tado will have nothing to do with their boiler call via their zone valve relay, UNLESS you get the Tado ext. kit and use it for HW timing. Regardless, the mechanical nature of the cylinder stat has a fair amount of hysteresis, that is, it will need to heat the water a good few degrees past the setting to cut out, then cool a good few degrees below to cut in again, say, set for 60°, it will heat till 63° ( timer permitting), cut the boiler, and will have to cool to 57° to turn on again.

paulgrogan.eu · 09-04-2020 9:27am

deezell wrote: »

No, these are mechanical stats. Firstly, Tado will have nothing to do with their boiler call via their zone valve relay, UNLESS you get the Tado ext. kit and use it for HW timing. Regardless, the mechanical nature of the cylinder stat has a fair amount of hysteresis, that is, it will need to heat the water a good few degrees past the setting to cut out, then cool a good few degrees below to cut in again, say, set for 60°, it will heat till 63° ( timer permitting), cut the boiler, and will have to cool to 57° to turn on again.

Hi Deezell,

Yep so I do indeed have the Ext. Kit as I want Tado to handle the HW tank and stop ourselves using the immersion in the summer. At the moment we only have valves to control ground floor & 1st floor, with an open pipe all the way to the HW tank from the boiler. So we're planning to install a 3rd valve on the HW tank pipe so that can also be switched on/off by Tado.

We'll also use the Ext.Kit for our wireless stat on the ground floor, but we'll hardwire the landing one as we have an easy route down via the pipes to the Tado controller beside the boiler for that one.

Regards,

P.

Home heating automation

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