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Covid-19 likely to be man made

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Comments

  • #62
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,790 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Could be, time will tell, or not


  • #63
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    King Mob wrote: »
    No, you're dodging.
    I asked you to explain which diseases were man made. You didn't answer.
    I asked you whether we should believe the experts who claimed all those diseases were man made. You didn't answer.
    I asked you about how your conspiracy theory about covid is different from the conspiracy theories about other diseases. You didn't answer.

    Meanwhile I directly answered your question in detail and in full. But now you're lying and saying I didn't.:confused:

    You're being very dishonest.


    I asked you to explain which diseases were man made. - I said that I don't know and I think it's very possible that the diseases could be man made.


    When it comes to believing experts who claim it's man made - I think the world is too quick to try and dismiss these things without giving them the due consideration they deserve.


    The conspiracy theory for covid19 is different because 1. it effects so many nations. 2 it is quickly changing the world into a dictatorial regime. 3. there so happens to be the Wuhan lab in the very vicinity of where the virus was found. This is at the very least highly suspicious.


    The arguments of it being a natural virus seems to largely came very earliy on in March from Scripps Research, Tulane University, University of Sydney, University of Edinburgh, and Columbia University.


    https://bgr.com/2020/03/19/coronavirus-update-covid-19-is-a-natural-evolution-not-man-made/



    There are not to be dismissed but also what they studied was only part of the Genome of Covid19 not the complete genome.


    There has been claims since that this was an accident leaked from the Wuhan labs which I find that is more likely to be the case.


    They might have been storing a naturally occurring virus for research and experimenting on it.



    However when notable scientists come out refuting that it has occurred naturally and saying that it's a man made virus then I would like an open inquiry at the least into their claims.


    I want the truth.


  • #64
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,765 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    What's the motive?
    Who will benefit?
    What's to be gained by killing a few million, mainly elderly people worldwide?

    Indeed, and stressing national healthcare systems, tanking the respective economies and having a drastic impact on the bottom lines of companies and corporations

    Someone in another thread pointed the finger at pharmaceutical companies and claimed they were behind this because they were making money from the pandemic, but using that logic then so are mask-makers, respirator manufacturers, laptop manufacturers, video-conferencing app makers and so on and so on

    People need to engage a slight amount of critical thinking here


  • #65
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    I asked you to explain which diseases were man made. - I said that I don't know and I think it's very possible that the diseases could be man made.

    When it comes to believing experts who claim it's man made - I think the world is too quick to try and dismiss these things without giving them the due consideration they deserve.
    Neither of which are actually answers. They're wishy washy answers that don't require any commitment.

    So do you believe that all diseases can man made? Or just the ones I listed? And all of them, or just one or two of them?

    What about the ones you don't believe are man made? Are the experts who disagree with you just stupid or...? Why do you disagree with them?
    NaFirinne wrote: »
    The conspiracy theory for covid19 is different because 1. it effects so many nations.
    As opposed to AIDs?:confused:
    NaFirinne wrote: »
    2 it is quickly changing the world into a dictatorial regime.
    Lol. Very silly and very hyperbolic.
    NaFirinne wrote: »
    3. there so happens to be the Wuhan lab in the very vicinity of where the virus was found. This is at the very least highly suspicious.
    And?
    People claimed the same suspicious stuff about all the other diseases too.

    Unsupported rumors aren't facts.
    NaFirinne wrote: »
    The arguments of it being a natural virus seems to largely...
    Not true. This is a very silly strawman you're constructing. It's very silly.

    That is not what it is "largely based on."
    NaFirinne wrote: »
    There has been claims since that this was an accident leaked from the Wuhan labs which I find that is more likely to be the case.
    Again, unsupported rumors aren't facts even if you really want them to be true.
    NaFirinne wrote: »

    However when notable scientists come out refuting that it has occurred naturally and saying that it's a man made virus then I would like an open inquiry at the least into their claims.


    But "notable scientists" claim many wacky, false things all the time.

    They use their authority to give weight to these false claims, and in some cases to sell books.
    It's a common marketing tactic.
    NaFirinne wrote: »

    I want the truth.
    No, you want there to be a conspiracy theory you've figured out.


  • #66
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Indeed, and stressing national healthcare systems, tanking the respective economies and having a drastic impact on the bottom lines of companies and corporations

    Someone in another thread pointed the finger at pharmaceutical companies and claimed they were behind this because they were making money from the pandemic, but using that logic then so are mask-makers, respirator manufacturers, laptop manufacturers, video-conferencing app makers and so on and so on

    People need to engage a slight amount of critical thinking here

    But remember, a guy can't be stretching the truth for a book he's selling cause... reasons...


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  • #67
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    King Mob wrote: »
    But remember, a guy can't be stretching the truth for a book he's selling cause... reasons...


    Not when selling a book would have such a short term gain as opposed to ruining his career.


  • #68
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    https://apnews.com/3c061794970661042b18d5aeaaed9fae

    Some relevant info here; China only released the genome sequencing after three other labs had already mapped it. Serious obfuscation and you'd have to wonder the motive.


  • #69
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Not when selling a book would have such a short term gain as opposed to ruining his career.
    Ok, how much does he make every year from his job?
    How much will he make from his book?

    Please provide this evidence.

    If you can't, then you can't exclude the possibility that he stands to make more from a book than from his job.

    Also you'll have to factor in the other sources of revenue he could gain from becoming the "maverick expert". Such as other books. Speaking engagements, lectures and talks at various "alternative" events. Or guest spots on conspiratorial media.

    You'll also have to show that he is guaranteed to lose his other sources of income and isn't protected by something like tenure.

    So when you can show all that, then you can claim he has no profit motive.
    Otherwise, he does have a profit motive, you just ignore it because you agree with his claims and you're applying a double standard.


  • #70
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,765 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Not when selling a book would have such a short term gain as opposed to ruining his career.

    If you are referring to Luc Montagnier, then there do seem to be reasons to doubt the veracity of his claims

    For example:

    https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/luc-montagnier-coronavirus-wuhan-lab-pseudoscience/
    The Indian study Montagnier referred to had been authored by a team from IIT Delhi, among others. They had uploaded their manuscript to the bioRxiv preprint repository only to quickly take it down after commentators pointed out numerous errors in their analysis.
    An article published more recently in the journal Nature Medicine analysing the new virus’s genome concluded thus: “Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.”
    What Montagnier called the “elements” of HIV were short cis-acting elements that scientists had discovered in the genome of coronaviruses in 2005. They are required for genome replication and are shared by many coronaviruses. So if what Montagnier said is true, the whole family of coronaviruses – which originated over 10,000 years ago – would have to be lab-made, and this is obviously nonsensical.

    Many experts have already pointed out this obvious flaw in Montagnier’s argument. As Étienne Simon-Lorière, a professor at the Institut Pasteur in Paris, said, “If we take a word from a book and it looks like another word, can we say that one has copied from the other? This is absurd!”

    It is surprising to have a scientist of Montagnier’s stature utter such questionable statements – although Montagnier himself is a controversial figure. Among other causes, he has supported anti-vaxxers, homeopathy and a silly claim that DNA emits “electromagnetic waves”.


  • #71
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    If you are referring to Luc Montagnier, then there do seem to be reasons to doubt the veracity of his claims

    For example:

    https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/luc-montagnier-coronavirus-wuhan-lab-pseudoscience/
    According to that link he said:
    As he lost credibility among his peers, scientific agencies around Europe began to reject his grant applications, and eventually he was left with no money to pursue his ideas. In a 2010 interview, Montagnier said he was leaving Europe to “escape the intellectual terror.” He added, “I’m no longer allowed to work at a public institute (in France). I have applied for funding from other sources, but I have been turned down.”

    So it sounds less like he's losing a job and more like he's in need of funding.

    So there is a financial motive for him to be less than honest.
    But because he's in agreement with conspiracy theories, I'm sure that still won't count.


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  • #72
    Emme
    Registered Users Posts: 4,055 ✭✭✭Emme


    King Mob wrote: »
    It's airbourne because it's being expelled from people. Hence why a mask helps lower it's spread.
    Fair enough.
    King Mob wrote: »
    How do you propose this happens from a bin?
    If the virus is expelled from people while they're wearing the mask it will be on the mask when they remove it. If they put it in a bin it will be disposed of in the normal way with the rest of the rubbish and sanitation staff might come into contact with it.

    I don't there is any need to say anything about used masks thrown on the ground.
    King Mob wrote: »
    Why is it silly to suggest the government are tricking people into extending the lockdowns by telling them incorrect information?
    I didn't suggest that. You brought up that point out of the blue.
    King Mob wrote: »
    And this is based on your PhD research? Or was it a paper you wrote in a scientific journal?
    If you read my answer to the OP you will see I stated that I am not a scientist. I have done no PhD research nor written any peer-reviewed articles. I didn't think that was a requirement to suggest that people practice good hygiene. I have worked in an environment where people had to use yellow biohazard bins for pathological waste. To my knowledge biohazard waste is disposed of in a different way to regular waste like that disposed of in municipal bins.

    I am not going to argue with you any further because it is clear your function is to refute (you might say debunk :D) any opinion that does not follow to the letter the regulations which we receive in the mainstream media and from our government. If that is your job here that's fine but please do not tell people they suggested something they did not or accused the government of something they did not. If you do this it invalidates your arguments.


  • #73
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,836 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Emme wrote: »
    Fair enough.
    If the virus is expelled from people while they're wearing the mask it will be on the mask when they remove it. If they put it in a bin it will be disposed of in the normal way with the rest of the rubbish and sanitation staff might come into contact with it.
    I don't there is any need to say anything about used masks thrown on the ground.

    Do you dispose of your tissues in a biohazard bin?
    Beverage can or bottle you drank from?
    Why are masks different to any other piece of rubbish handled by bin staff.

    What are the bin staff going to do with the mask to get infected from it.
    Come into contact is vague...they have to do more than come into contact to get infected.

    The line of infection to bin worker you are trying to is not convincing and has nothing to do with masks.

    All the while you ignore the risks masks are meant to protect against... inhaled droplets.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #74
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Emme wrote: »
    Fair enough.


    If the virus is expelled from people while they're wearing the mask it will be on the mask when they remove it. If they put it in a bin it will be disposed of in the normal way with the rest of the rubbish and sanitation staff might come into contact with it.

    I don't there is any need to say anything about used masks thrown on the ground.
    Yes, there might be some virus on the masks.
    But it will be on the mask. It will not be airbourne and it will not be wafting off the mask like a miasma.
    So there is a risk to people if they are licking the masks from the bins or the ones from the ground, or if they put their hand straight into their mouth after touching them.


    Emme wrote: »
    I didn't suggest that. You brought up that point out of the blue.
    So then why does the government not insist on anyone buying biohazard bins and insist that people use them for their masks?

    Why do they and doctors not share your concern that not using them will result in the pandemic lasting longer?
    Are you suggesting that you just know more than them?
    Emme wrote: »
    If you read my answer to the OP you will see I stated that I am not a scientist. I have done no PhD research nor written any peer-reviewed articles. I didn't think that was a requirement to suggest that people practice good hygiene. I have worked in an environment where people had to use yellow biohazard bins for pathological waste. To my knowledge biohazard waste is disposed of in a different way to regular waste like that disposed of in municipal bins.
    So then if you have done no research, have no expertise and no experience with an actual pandemic, how do you know your claim is true?
    Emme wrote: »
    If that is your job here that's fine
    Lol. Yup. I'm a paid government disinfo agent. :rolleyes:


  • #75
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    Like everything else these days: It was totally made in some dingy factory in Chy-na.


  • #76
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    Emme wrote: »
    For the same reason that your post will be ridiculed and vilified on Boards.

    I am not a scientist so I don't fully understand the genetics behind the virus which causes COVID-19. I also cannot understand why so many heavy handed control measures bordering on Martial Law were brought in worldwide because of this virus. People were first told to wear gloves but were not told to dispose of them in a special biohazard unit. Now people are being told to wear mask and have not been told to dispose of them in a special biohazard unit. The advice from governments all over the world changes all the time like they're making it up as they go along. The only thing that doesn't change is people's lack of freedom.

    The Covid-19 crisis is a dictatorial megalomaniac's wet dream.
    Hear, hear!


    It is totalitarianism and Treason at its best...


  • #77
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,765 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    Hear, hear!


    It is totalitarianism and Treason at its best...

    What is?


  • #78
    Xtrail14
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 253 ✭✭Xtrail14


    If China won’t make a fortune with a vaccine to their virus they are cashing in on us with their double dildo and mass mask production.


  • #79
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    What is?
    Telling people to wear masks.

    Exactly the same as Nazism apparently.


  • #80
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,765 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    King Mob wrote: »
    Telling people to wear masks.

    Exactly the same as Nazism apparently.

    Timeline%201_small.jpg

    I guess the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic was a conspiracy as well.


  • #81
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Timeline%201_small.jpg

    I guess the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic was a conspiracy as well.

    Every Disease is man made and part of a conspiracy apparently.

    AIDS, Zika, Ebola, SARS, MERS... All made in a lab to bring about martial law. And they all succeeded.


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  • #82
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,765 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    King Mob wrote: »
    Every Disease is man made and part of a conspiracy apparently.

    AIDS, Zika, Ebola, SARS, MERS... All made in a lab to bring about martial law. And they all succeeded.

    Right, so they've succeeded in getting everyone to wear masks, what is supposed to happen next?


  • #83
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Right, so they've succeeded in getting everyone to wear masks, what is supposed to happen next?
    One world government?
    Bill Gates microchips everyone?
    Something something evil leftist ploy?

    But most likely whole thing eventually blows over, a few years pass and conspiracy theorists start the whole cycle again for the next big event and will insist that it's finally the real deal and it would be really martial law this time.


  • #84
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    King Mob wrote: »
    One world government?
    Bill Gates microchips everyone?
    Something something evil leftist ploy?

    But most likely whole thing eventually blows over, a few years pass and conspiracy theorists start the whole cycle again for the next big event and will insist that it's finally the real deal and it would be really martial law this time.


    You forgot taking kids off anyone who doesn't confirm to getting vaccinated.


  • #85
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    You forgot taking kids off anyone who doesn't confirm to getting vaccinated.
    Yup exactly like they did when swine flu hit and conspiracy theorists were claiming the same stuff then.

    Ignoring the rest of my points I take it?


  • #86
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,836 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    King Mob wrote: »
    Telling people to wear masks.
    Exactly the same as Nazism apparently.

    I think the Nazis would have gone for herd immunity...
    Plus won't all these masks make it harder for CCTV and facial recognition systems to work in public?
    I would have thought anyone concerned about privacy would welcome a reason to wear a mask.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #87
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,765 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    You forgot taking kids off anyone who doesn't confirm to getting vaccinated.

    What is this?


  • #88
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    s1ippy wrote: »
    https://apnews.com/3c061794970661042b18d5aeaaed9fae

    Some relevant info here; China only released the genome sequencing after three other labs had already mapped it. Serious obfuscation and you'd have to wonder the motive.

    Probably something stupid like bureaucracy that delayed the release.
    Did other labs in China get this information?


  • #89
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,836 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Probably something stupid like bureaucracy that delayed the release.
    Did other labs in China get this information?

    We know the Chinese government was trying to cover up this virus by suppressing reports from doctors and spin the line it was primarily spread by contact \ touch rather than droplets person to person. When an authoritarian government acts that way and sits on data, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's their general operating principle. It still doesn't speak to it being man made necessarily, whether accidentally or deliberately (a very high bar).

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #90
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,609 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    China may know more that they will reveal. I believe that much at least.

    Why is no one in China getting sick? Makes no sense, it got out, infected 1000s and then they stopped it, some how they stopped it, and it was more that social distancing, because the whole world tried that, even New Zealand are getting cases, while China is not?
    Something doesn't add up


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  • #91
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    Hear, hear!


    It is totalitarianism and Treason at its best...
    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    What is?

    'It'

    You wouldn't get vary far in life not saying 'it'.


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