getting a smooth pedal stroke

EmcD123 · 27-09-2014 9:10pm #1

I've been working on my pedal stroke while cycling lately and when I'm in the bigger gears I tend to get the whole way down and up again in the pedal stroke smoothly but when I increase my cadence I get what feels like a kink in my pedal stroke at the bottom and I don't like the feel of when it happens. How can I try and work out that kink in my pedal stroke and try to create the smooth one I see really good cyclists have?

Lumen · 27-09-2014 9:17pm

Your saddle may be marginally too high.

EmcD123 · 27-09-2014 9:20pm

Lumen wrote: »

Your saddle may be marginally too high.

Could it really be as simple as that? I lowered it to what feels perfect and once I'm on big gears this kink disappears/ it mainly only appears when I'm not on the big chainring

Seweryn · 27-09-2014 9:24pm

EmcD123 wrote: »

How can I try and work out that kink in my pedal stroke and try to create the smooth one I see really good cyclists have?

Two things come to mind:

- Increase your cadence (it should be easier with shorter crank arms and, obviously, lower gearing),
- Practice with pedalling with one leg at a time. Never tried for longer, but believe it should work if you are into training and that kind of stuff.

Lumen · 27-09-2014 9:25pm

EmcD123 wrote: »

Could it really be as simple as that? I lowered it to what feels perfect and once I'm on big gears this kink disappears/ it mainly only appears when I'm not on the big chainring

Try lowering a bit and see if it goes away. Or just lift your heel to simulate same.

edit: http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/02/seat-height-how-hard-can-it-be/

EmcD123 · 27-09-2014 9:44pm

Seweryn wrote: »

Two things come to mind:

- Increase your cadence (it should be easier with shorter crank arms and, obviously, lower gearing),
- Practice with pedalling with one leg at a time. Never tried for longer, but believe it should work if you are into training and that kind of stuff.

Forgive me if this is a stupid question but what do you do with your other leg when you're pedalling with one leg

Lumen · 27-09-2014 9:46pm

EmcD123 wrote: »

Forgive me if this is a stupid question but what do you do with your other leg when you're pedalling with one leg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RQtVnuXP48

Ole Rodrigo · 27-09-2014 10:01pm

Buy a fixed gear.

EmcD123 · 27-09-2014 10:07pm

ror_74 wrote: »

Buy a fixed gear.

Don't tempt me! Someday I will own one but right now. I'll definitely try lowering the saddle just a fraction

C3PO · 28-09-2014 7:36am

ror_74 wrote: »

Buy a fixed gear.

I started commuting on a single speed recently and have been conscious of trying to pedal in "circles" and as smoothly as possible - genuinely believe it's made a significant difference!

BoardsMember · 28-09-2014 11:41am

Speaking of the stroke, do people pull up as hard as they pull down? I'm new to cycling but in the old days had toe clips on my racer, and would only really have pulled up hard when trying to accelerate. Just wondering what people do when "cruising"...are both legs working all the time, or is the majority of the drive being provided via the leg going down?

mistermatthew · 28-09-2014 12:56pm

EmcD123 wrote: »

I've been working on my pedal stroke while cycling lately and when I'm in the bigger gears I tend to get the whole way down and up again in the pedal stroke smoothly but when I increase my cadence I get what feels like a kink in my pedal stroke at the bottom and I don't like the feel of when it happens. How can I try and work out that kink in my pedal stroke and try to create the smooth one I see really good cyclists have?

Yeah you may drop ur heel more when ur increasing the cadence making the required seat height effectively lower THat steve Hoggs guy lumen linked is great. Best guy on the internet at explaining and justifying rather than blindly stating things which I hate.

fiacha · 28-09-2014 2:29pm

I spent some time on the bike today concentrating on the pedal stroke. I lowered the saddle by a few mm every 30 mins until the rotations started to feel smoother and more consistent. It has made a huge difference. No tension in the knees and I appear to be using my calves a lot more than before.
57km all in and PRs set on all the "hills" on my regular segments with a lot less perceived effort.
I'm only cycling for weight loss and fitness, but the advice from the racers here is proving to be very helpful. Thanks folks.

EmcD123 · 28-09-2014 2:57pm

mistermatthew wrote: »

Yeah you may drop ur heel more when ur increasing the cadence making the required seat height effectively lower THat steve Hoggs guy lumen linked is great. Best guy on the internet at explaining and justifying rather than blindly stating things which I hate.

Yes after cycling today I realised that I drop my heel way more than the others in the group . I'm in toe clips though so im finding it hard to pedal correctly without that happening

Ole Rodrigo · 28-09-2014 4:15pm

From tips on winter training:

There are some valuable advantages of the fixed gear over single speed, road, mountain, and cross bikes. Fixed gear riding improves pedal technique, leg strength, and power, all while keeping you warmer!

You cannot effectively ride a fixed gear bicycle in undulating terrain without having or developing a smoother pedal stroke. If you’re accustomed to stomping the pedals instead of pedaling in flowing circles, the fixed gear will push you through those dead spots and will immediately correct you if you stop pedaling. On undulating terrain it forces you to apply increased pedal force on ascents, spin a much higher cadence, and spin smoothly on descents. If you aren’t smooth, you’ll start to bounce on the saddle and feel out of control, so it will take some focus at first to remain smooth and to apply force to the pedals all the way around. This higher, smoother rpm will add a lot of snap and efficiency to your pedaling. After a few months of endurance rides, you should see a significant improvement in the number of rpm you can turn and the snap you can generate from a small gear. It is also helpful to include a few town line sprints on your endurance rides, which will add to the high rpm work and teach you to sit, move as smoothly as you can, and drive the pedals forward at all times.

http://www.hunterallenpowerblog.com/2014/01/fixed-gear-winter-training.html

rab!dmonkey · 28-09-2014 7:08pm

I'm of the opinion that the value of a 'smooth' pedal stroke is one of those myths that persists in road cycling because that's just what your coach/the older racer/Phil Liggett told you. In the absence of any rigorous research in favour of the idea, I find it hard to believe that moving your ankle in some contrived way will significantly improve your riding experience. In contrast to those of you who anecdotally found a perceived benefit, Sheldon Brown (anecdotally) says he gave himself a lifelong niggling injury by straying from his self-selected pedal stroke.

Pulling on the upstroke in any case other than a sprint is complete bunk too, as far as I'm concerned.

niceonetom · 28-09-2014 7:26pm

Fixed gear me arse. You want powercranks. They're sort of the opposite.

Maybe good cyclists have a good pedal stroke in the same way that good basketball players have big shoes. And maybe trying to get better at cycling by artificially altering your style is a bit like trying to get better at basketball by artificially making your feet bigger.

triggermortis · 28-09-2014 7:29pm

I found my pedalling got smoother after I got a set of rollers last year. I found it helped when I had to ride in snow and ice here last winter!!

Ole Rodrigo · 28-09-2014 7:39pm

The only certainty about anything in cycling is the futility in trying to reach a consensus about anything in cycling.

ROK ON · 28-09-2014 8:17pm

Meh

I find that these types of threads only serve to make me more self conscious about my style and efficiency on a bike.

EmcD123 · 28-09-2014 8:55pm

ror_74 wrote: »

The only certainty about anything in cycling is the futility in trying to reach a consensus about anything in cycling.

The longer I spend viewing this forum the more I believe this.
I'm mainly just seeing if there's something to it and if a smooth pedal stroke actually is trainable or if its just bike fit or a number of other factors. I just noticed the last few times I cycled in a group the others didn't seem to have the same dead spot in their revolutions as I did

Lumen · 28-09-2014 10:15pm

niceonetom wrote: »

Maybe good cyclists have a good pedal stroke in the same way that good basketball players have big shoes. And maybe trying to get better at cycling by artificially altering your style is a bit like trying to get better at basketball by artificially making your feet bigger.

Another explanation is that smooth pedal stroke comes naturally at higher torque, in a similar way that carrying heavy bags of shopping results in smoother arm movements than carrying a packet of crisps.

When I pedal at 400 watts my pedal stroke feels fantastic. Totally unsustainable, but fantastic.

endacl · 28-09-2014 10:44pm

ror_74 wrote: »

The only certainty about anything in cycling is the futility in trying to reach a consensus about anything in cycling.

I disagree.

browsing · 29-09-2014 12:50am

EmcD123 wrote: »

The longer I spend viewing this forum the more I believe this.
I'm mainly just seeing if there's something to it and if a smooth pedal stroke actually is trainable or if its just bike fit or a number of other factors. I just noticed the last few times I cycled in a group the others didn't seem to have the same dead spot in their revolutions as I did

how did you spot their deadspots? what does a deadspot look like?

12 sprocket · 29-09-2014 7:06am

EmcD123 wrote: »

The longer I spend viewing this forum the more I believe this.
I'm mainly just seeing if there's something to it and if a smooth pedal stroke actually is trainable or if its just bike fit or a number of other factors. I just noticed the last few times I cycled in a group the others didn't seem to have the same dead spot in their revolutions as I did

That's probably because they are not thinking about it..... just pedal the bike and your brain and nervous system will do the rest for you.

eeeee · 29-09-2014 9:00am

If you want to improve your pedal stroke do track. It will help it 100%.

On whether it's a benefit or not i don't know. Our track coach told me 'smooth is fast and fast is smooth'. It's the only cycling 'skill' i can do! People with more up and down pedalling styles seem more powerful to me though?

EmcD123 · 29-09-2014 9:16am

browsing wrote: »

how did you spot their deadspots? what does a deadspot look like?

Basically when in pedalling it kinda gets stuck at the bottom and then I kinda have to manuever a little bit and it moves again now this is all done in a split second but even people in the group are telling me that I need to get smoother that my pedal stroke doesn't seem to be a particularly good one/ its made me wonder about it all and wondering is it a skill or is it a natural thing. Tbh I'm probably completely over thinking this and just making a mountain out of a molehill but its amazing the different opinions people have on it

learn · 29-09-2014 10:43am

12 sprocket wrote: »

That's probably because they are not thinking about it..... just pedal the bike and your brain and nervous system will do the rest for you.

" While the main purpose of the power meter is to send torque, power and cadence data to an ANT+ display, the detailed data stream is extremely interesting to look at. This gives us extra ways to see what’s going on as you pedal. The simplest is to look at how you apply force as the cranks rotate. Theoretically a rider should apply the maximum push-down force as the crank is half way through the down stroke, but we could see in our realtime graphs that our test rider was applying force very late and then continuing in an attempt to stretch the cranks at the bottom. Seems like he might benefit from adjusting his pedaling style a little, particularly by moving the application of force to slightly earlier in the pedal stroke.

Watching these graphs in realtime while cycling on an indoor trainer is quite intriguing. You can see immediately the effect of trying to, for example, apply force earlier in the down stroke. "

This is caused by the slight delay that occurs as push down signal travels from brain to muscles. With concentration this timing can be changed.

getting a smooth pedal stroke

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