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Small Claims Court Thread

  • 06-05-2020 8:38pm
    #1
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 4,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    All written by Paddy19

    As of 25 May:
    Aer Lingus are paying up within a few days of the 15 calendar day limit.

    Ryanair seem to be disputing all SCC claims, so chargeback maybe a better option.

    If your flight is cancelled you are entitled to a cash refund in 7 days per EU261 8 1 a.

    The small claims process is one way to get your money back from a travel company registered in Ireland.

    It costs 25 Euro which is non refundable and non claimable.

    The small claims process is no more difficult than creating an account on eBay or Amazon,
    it is designed to be simple to use. No requirement for a solicitor or be fluent in legalese.

    Best part is the company must reply within 15 calendar days.
    If they don't reply you win the case.
    Companies normally just pay up if they know they will loose.
    If they decide to defend the case they have to retain an expensive solicitor.
    If the case goes to court you have to attend the court. Your expenses are not allowed. The Airline expenses are not not allowed either.



    Guide

    The small claims process is very straight forward:

    https://www.csol.ie/ccms/welcome.html

    1. Create an account.
    2. Open a New Case.
    3. Add Claimant (that's you) details.
    4. Add Respondent details that's the company.
    5. Add Case Details. Keep it very simple, flight cancelled, booking ref number, passenger names, flight details and the total cost of the complete booking. Note: Refund for all flights and all passengers on booking. Note: Reference # or screenshot date for refund request.

    Don't worry about submitting documents at this stage.

    6. Submit Claim.
    7. Check under Events to make sure Claim Submitted shows on the listing.
    8. You will get an email
    "Courts Service - Notification Case Not Initiated"
    This email will have a link for paying the 25 Euro.
    9. Once the Registrar sends the claim to the company the events status will show as "Claim Issued."
    10. If the airline does not respond within 15 calendar days you win the case. The airline may dispute the claim and request documents. You can email the documents to the Registrar and ask him to send them to the airline.

    11. The airline can then pay up or dispute the claim. For a disputed claim you then have a choice to drop the case or request a court date. You have top be prepared to attend the court personally.
    Expenses for court appearances are not allowable.



    It's generally intuitive except they have the blue Add Claimant, Add Respondent and Edit Case Details,
    are three quarters way up the page. You if you get stuck check those buttons.

    Critical you get the airlines official titles and CRO number correct.

    CRO Number:
    9215
    Aer Lingus Limited
    Dublin Airport Dublin

    104547
    RYANAIR DESIGNATED ACTIVITY COMPANY
    RYANAIR DUBLIN OFFICE
    AIRSIDE BUSINESS PARK
    SWORDS
    CO. DUBLIN

    You can track your claim by logging into the online account and watch the 15 day countdown!

    Unlike the airlines they even supply an email address for support sccadmin@courts.ie.

    Be great is people could let us know how they get on with the process and when they get the money!


«134567

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    Anyone has heard back yet?

    And question.

    Can you add multiples flights in the same claim?

    I booked the return flight separately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,079 ✭✭✭irelandspurs


    Galego wrote: »
    Anyone has heard back yet?

    And question.

    Can you add multiples flights in the same claim?

    I booked the return flight separately.

    5 more days left on my claim. I add 2 reservation numbers for seperate flights in my claim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭paddy19


    Galego wrote: »
    Anyone has heard back yet?

    And question.

    Can you add multiples flights in the same claim?

    I booked the return flight separately.
    Aer Lingus questioned the refund request even thought I included their case number.

    Then the paid up!

    Maximum claim is €2,000 so can include multiple claims as long as your under this limit.

    Make sure you include the email from Aer Lingus confirming your refund request.

    Good luck, keep us updated on how you get on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭michellie


    I have 2 flights. dub to lanzarote with aerlingus 24th June and lanzarote to dub with Ryanair on 8th July. I'm assuming I have to wait until those dates to apply for this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭paddy19


    michellie wrote: »
    I have 2 flights. dub to lanzarote with aerlingus 24th June and lanzarote to dub with Ryanair on 8th July. I'm assuming I have to wait until those dates to apply for this?

    If the airline officially cancels (not "sold out") before the fly date then you can claim.

    Aer Lingus only tend to officially cancel within 3 days of the flight.
    Ryanair give about 2 weeks notice.

    Proof of cancellation is not usually an issue but no harm to include
    a screenshot.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,691 ✭✭✭michellie


    paddy19 wrote: »
    If the airline officially cancels (not "sold out") before the fly date then you can claim.

    Aer Lingus only tend to officially cancel within 3 days of the flight.
    Ryanair give about 2 weeks notice.

    Proof of cancellation is not usually an issue but no harm to include
    a screenshot.

    Thank you Paddy, you're great help.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭MAJJ


    We moved fights from March to October flying to London City airport for a quick transfer. Are Lingus changes destination airport to Heathrow. Is this allowed?

    Sorry just realised this in the SCC thread, please ignore or mod please move


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,388 ✭✭✭VG31


    MAJJ wrote: »
    We moved fights from March to October flying to London City airport for a quick transfer. Are Lingus changes destination airport to Heathrow. Is this allowed?

    This happened to me as well. You can request a refund with the form online.

    https://www.aerlingus.com/support/forms/disrupted-flight-refund-form/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭Beersmith


    Do you think its worth chancing putting two claimants on the same claim? Eg husband and wife have sets of different flights booked?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭paddy19


    MAJJ wrote: »
    We moved fights from March to October flying to London City airport for a quick transfer. Are Lingus changes destination airport to Heathrow. Is this allowed?

    Sorry just realised this in the SCC thread, please ignore or mod please move

    No worries.
    Martin Lewis has a full explanation here.
    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/travel/flight-changes/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭Pauliedragon


    Not sure how it might apply to the scc but several European governments including our own are lobbying the EU to suspend the law that requires airlines to give refunds on cancelled flights but to allow them to give vouchers instead.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭paddy19


    Beersmith wrote: »
    Do you think its worth chancing putting two claimants on the same claim? Eg husband and wife have sets of different flights booked?

    I'd try it.

    Make the claimant husband and wife.

    Worst that happens is the Registrar will tell you it's a no no before you spend your €25.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭paddy19


    Not sure how it might apply to the scc but several European governments including our own are lobbying the EU to suspend the law that requires airlines to give refunds on cancelled flights but to allow them to give vouchers instead.

    The EU is thankfully resisting so far.

    The greater danger is that Shane Ross/Heather Humphreys would try to bring a mandatory voucher into Irish law.

    This would effectively halt both the SCC and www.Flightrights.ie.

    Don't hang around if you need the cash, your money could be locked up in the Michael O'Leary/Willie Walsh Bank for 12 to 18 months!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,079 ✭✭✭irelandspurs


    Will be 15 days on Wednesday, still no response from Ryanair.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,231 ✭✭✭Galego


    Will be 15 days on Wednesday, still no response from Ryanair.

    Almost there. Please keep us posted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Will be 15 days on Wednesday, still no response from Ryanair.

    Id say there will be no response either and the SCC will rule in your favour. Its not worth airlines time spending 200 or 300 euro on a solicitor to go down to the SCC to defend these claims that they are likely to lose anyway. They'll just pay up but they dont want it getting into the media for fear loads more people will use this process.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,079 ✭✭✭irelandspurs


    Day 15 today, so hopefully hear something tomorrow? I've another flight to Portugal cancelled and refund requested but no voucher offer as of yet, I'm tempted to start another scc now in anticipation of the voucher offer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭limabromac


    Day 15 today, so hopefully hear something tomorrow? I've another flight to Portugal cancelled and refund requested but no voucher offer as of yet, I'm tempted to start another scc now in anticipation of the voucher offer.

    Fingers crossed for ya... It'll be great to see this go smoothly as it gives everyone some hope. ..keep us updated..


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,670 ✭✭✭jonnny68


    is this 15 working days folks or just 15 calendar days?

    mine should be up for next week, let us know folks if you get a refund.


  • Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Mad Benny


    jonnny68 wrote: »
    is this 15 working days folks or just 15 calendar days?

    I've initiated a SCC claim too.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,609 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    The EU has now ruled that all passengers are due a refund for cancelled flights. Ryanair and Aer Lingus lobbying of the Irish governemt to send that letter suspending refunds has not worked.

    THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION has said airlines must give passengers refunds for cancelled flights, and that vouchers alone won’t do.

    The commission, which has been under pressure to change regulations, said that under EU rules, travellers have the right to choose between vouchers or cash reimbursement for cancelled transport tickets.

    “We cannot judge on the economic situation of the individual…this is why we say this is your right, full stop,” executive vice-president of the commission Margrethe Vestager said during this morning’s press conference on resuming travel and rebooting Europe’s tourism sector.

    Vestager said that letters are being sent out to member states “as we speak” to remind them of this right.

    The EU body had been under pressure to change the rules on how airline passengers can be refunded for cancelled flight in order to solve current cash flow constraints of airlines. The Irish government was among 13 member states who co-signed a letter calling for the commission to temporarily allow airlines to issue vouchers instead of refunds to passengers whose flights have been cancelled due to the Covid-19 pandemic.

    Under EU Regulation 261/2014, airlines must reimburse passengers whose flights are cancelled the choice of a refund or a re-routing within seven days.
    https://www.thejournal.ie/airlines-flights-cancelled-refund-vouchers-eu-commission-5097851-May2020/

    Thats pretty unequivocal. So for anyone thinking of starting a SCC claim Id save your 25 euro as the EU are now clear you are due a refund.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,079 ✭✭✭irelandspurs


    Ryanair solicitor responded and refusing claim and if I want to proceed I have to go to court and get solicitor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,206 ✭✭✭✭JohnCleary


    Ryanair solicitor responded and refusing claim and if I want to proceed I have to go to court and get solicitor.

    You do NOT need a solicitor for SCC.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,079 ✭✭✭irelandspurs


    JohnCleary wrote: »
    You do NOT need a solicitor for SCC.

    Dear Sir,
    I am forwarding a Notice of Dispute that I have received from solicitors acting for Ryanair.
    As they will not agree to pay your claim do you want to withdraw your claim or do you want it to proceed to a Court hearing ?
    Please note the following points regarding a Court hearing ;
    1. you must attend the hearing in person (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure and Failure to Resolve a Claim)
    2. you will have to pay your own expenses associated with attending the Court hearing (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure then Introduction and Types of Claims Dealt with)
    3. it is not possible to choose your own hearing date.
    Yours sincerely,
    Dermot O'Byrne,
    Small Claims Registrar,
    District Court,
    4 Bridge Street, Swords, Co. Dublin


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭limabromac


    Ryanair solicitor responded and refusing claim and if I want to proceed I have to go to court and get solicitor.

    That's mad!!! Why are they refusing the Claim??? Is this normal...?


  • Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭sugarman20


    Ryanair solicitor responded and refusing claim and if I want to proceed I have to go to court and get solicitor.

    I can't believe they did that. It's bizarre. Surely after today's ruling it's black and white. Are you going to go?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Dear Sir,
    I am forwarding a Notice of Dispute that I have received from solicitors acting for Ryanair.
    As they will not agree to pay your claim do you want to withdraw your claim or do you want it to proceed to a Court hearing ?
    Please note the following points regarding a Court hearing ;
    1. you must attend the hearing in person (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure and Failure to Resolve a Claim)
    2. you will have to pay your own expenses associated with attending the Court hearing (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure then Introduction and Types of Claims Dealt with)
    3. it is not possible to choose your own hearing date.
    Yours sincerely,
    Dermot O'Byrne,
    Small Claims Registrar,
    District Court,
    4 Bridge Street, Swords, Co. Dublin

    You still don't need a solicitor. Just go to the SCC hearing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,308 ✭✭✭T-Bird


    Ryanair solicitor responded and refusing claim and if I want to proceed I have to go to court and get solicitor.

    Got same. There is a lot of writing to it. I think it's stating that they are not refusing to pay but are offering vouchers first, therefore complying.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,206 ✭✭✭✭JohnCleary


    Dear Sir,
    I am forwarding a Notice of Dispute that I have received from solicitors acting for Ryanair.
    As they will not agree to pay your claim do you want to withdraw your claim or do you want it to proceed to a Court hearing ?
    Please note the following points regarding a Court hearing ;
    1. you must attend the hearing in person (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure and Failure to Resolve a Claim)
    2. you will have to pay your own expenses associated with attending the Court hearing (go to WWW.COURTS.IE and refer to Small Claims Procedure then Introduction and Types of Claims Dealt with)
    3. it is not possible to choose your own hearing date.
    Yours sincerely,
    Dermot O'Byrne,
    Small Claims Registrar,
    District Court,
    4 Bridge Street, Swords, Co. Dublin

    Not sure why you quoted my statement in the above. My point still stands.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 579 ✭✭✭Mad Benny


    T-Bird wrote: »
    Got same. There is a lot of writing to it. I think it's stating that they are not refusing to pay but are offering vouchers first, therefore complying.

    I presume they don't want to make it easy for people. I'm sure I'll get the same. I'll happily go and Ryanair can pay their solicitors to attend the small claims court.


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