Off Topic Thread 5.0

thomond2006 · 02-06-2020 10:13am

I think the Government missed a trick by not advising people to stay at home, even if it's something like: If you are living with vulnerable/at risk people, please consider staying at home. I don't know if it would have made a difference but it was an opportunity lost.

There's been mostly opposition on Twitter to yesterday, if we have a spike in a week or two in Dublin then this march will be blamed, rightly or wrongly.

02-06-2020 10:16am

Buer wrote: »

It is an important movement and I think it's something that we're going to see become a real issue in Ireland in the coming years. We're very happy to sit in a bubble in Ireland and criticise our neighbours to the east and west but we simply haven't widely encountered it in Ireland yet due to the far smaller ethnic populations.

I think racism is going to be a real problem here in years to come and, as a population, I don't think we're much better than many in Britain or America. There's a huge element of casual or unspoken racism here. Many simply never encounter people from outside Europe in their daily lives.

My issue with the protests yesterday are twofold. Firstly I think it's pretty dumb in the current circumstances. They were in close proximity for a lengthy period and the bulk of those attending are young and healty so more likely to be spreaders rather than actually gravely impacted themselves.

Secondly, I'm a cynical grouch and I do believe there's a signficant element of boredom and day trippers attending yesterday who were just happy to be doing something. There have been BLM demonstrations in Dublin before which were attended by a small fraction of those who went yesterday. My issue is that I reckon a significant portion of those there yesterday won't be bothered to attend another one. Yes, it increases awareness and benefits the movement but if it simply loses momentum and fizzles out, it will achieves little.

I'd say almost everyone at the Dublin protest has seen the footage of George Floyd's death and while I don't doubt an element of virtue signalling is at play I can well believe that people are legitimately outraged.

dregin · 02-06-2020 10:24am

antimatterx wrote: »

Anyone else here working in tech? How are you finding WFH. I can't handle these zoom meetings anymore, they're wrecking my head.

Getting on well. We've an initiative in place which calls for us to use zoom as a last resort after asynchronous communication options and it's really helping limit the calls. My team do a "****e talk" zoom call every morning at 10 and I'm finding it really helps tackle the side effects of limited social interactions in general, even outside of work.

As dave_the_sheep said, cutting out the commute, is ****ing great. We're allowed wfh for the rest of 2020 if we want and are looking at cutting required in-office days significantly once things return to 'normal'.

02-06-2020 10:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say almost everyone at the Dublin protest has seen the footage of George Floyd's death and while I don't doubt an element of virtue signalling is at play I can well believe that people are legitimately outraged.

They've undermined the entire country. It's not the right way to go about it. The lockdown is effectively over.

Buer · 02-06-2020 10:44am

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say almost everyone at the Dublin protest has seen the footage of George Floyd's death and while I don't doubt an element of virtue signalling is at play I can well believe that people are legitimately outraged.

Absolutely. If someone isn't outraged by looking at that, then they've some serious issues.

But people should have been outraged by the Breonna Taylor incident just as much, if not more. There wasn't a peep over here (or in America for a long time). My point being if this just dissipates, it's just going to be a day out with absolutely no change.

To be honest, I don't see much change happening even with the riots/protests in American right now. The leaders aren't going to cut their noses off to spite their faces. Things will improve if/when Trump goes but that won't be any seminal moment in American society. I honestly believe we could be 20 years or more from significant change still.

Buer · 02-06-2020 10:49am

Deleted User wrote: »

They've undermined the entire country. It's not the right way to go about it. The lockdown is effectively over.

The lockdown was already over, in reality. Thousands of people were gathering in public over the last few days, just not in such tight groups.

Although I didn't see it, there are reports of pubs in Dublin city centre doing take out over the weekend with people drinking on the streets.

This was always going to happen, I believe. They either condense the schedule of the phases or people would just ignore the guidelines and do what they want which is what we're now starting to see. Not a hope the population are going to wait until late July for the majority of normal life to resume.

jacothelad · 02-06-2020 11:05am

Clegg wrote: »

Yesterday they announced 66 new confirmed cases. Just 10 of those were from Dublin. Which is incredible considering its the major population centre in the country. Just have to hope they were centred around clusters/close contacts and that it wasn't circling around during today's protest.

The WHO say it is not true.

Clegg · 02-06-2020 11:10am

jacothelad wrote: »

The WHO say it is not true.

They say what isn't true?

jacothelad · 02-06-2020 11:16am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If this ends up with some National Guardsman shooting a protestor it's hard to see a way back from this, not sure if they'll be armed.

The National Guard of most states are predominantly made up of part time reserves isn't it...? History has seen this go badly before

Kent State

swiwi_ wrote: »

I dunno, I'm hearing Trump is going to tweet that due a march in central Dublin in the weekend, he's taken note, and black lives do in fact matter.

Trump wouldn't know where Dublin was if it was shoved brick by brick up his hole.

jacothelad · 02-06-2020 11:23am

Clegg wrote: »

They say what isn't true?

That the virus is losing it's virulence....and the Italian doctor is completely wrong.

Clegg · 02-06-2020 11:30am

jacothelad wrote: »

That the virus is losing it's virulence....and the Italian doctor is completely wrong.

Ok. But I never said anything of the sort to begin with. There appears to be some evidence that it's harder to catch outdoors, but that's it. I don't believe there is a lesser strain in circulation.

Bazzo · 02-06-2020 12:58pm

Some of the videos going about online are just insane. A good chunk of these cops must be complete morons, they seem to be acting specifically to escalate things rather than de-escalate.

Hard not to get sucked down a black hole of it, basically limiting myself to 3 or so 15 minutes interactions with Twitter etc a day to pick up any pertinent news.

MaybeMaybe · 02-06-2020 1:32pm

Bazzo wrote: »

Some of the videos going about online are just insane. A good chunk of these cops must be complete morons, they seem to be acting specifically to escalate things rather than de-escalate.

Hard not to get sucked down a black hole of it, basically limiting myself to 3 or so 15 minutes interactions with Twitter etc a day to pick up any pertinent news.

sure what's the point of having all that military gear if you don't get a chance to use it?

/s

Buer · 02-06-2020 1:33pm

Bazzo wrote: »

Some of the videos going about online are just insane. A good chunk of these cops must be complete morons, they seem to be acting specifically to escalate things rather than de-escalate.

I think that in their law enforcement, a culture of fear and distrust of black society is fostered whether deliberately or simply a by-product of confirmation bias. Once it becomes prevalent within law enforcement, it's going to be very hard to root out.

It's a cyclical situation where black communities are less wealthy and socially disadvantaged in America. This leads to them encountering drugs and crime more often (the motivating factors and background on the war on drugs is a whole other story), leading them to come into contact with law enforcement more often and therefore becoming stereotyped by that law enforcement.

The incarcertaion numbers in America are insane. They're 5 times what they were in 1980. There is a higer number of black people in prison than white people despite the fact that they make up about 14% and 64% of the populaion respectively.

The law enforcement may be the front line of this situation but the situation and the culture is as a result of generations of instruction from political leaders to focus on certain aspects of society which increases the focus on black communities, conviction rates, prison populations etc.

prawnsambo · 02-06-2020 4:16pm

Buer wrote: »

I think that in their law enforcement, a culture of fear and distrust of black society is fostered whether deliberately or simply a by-product of confirmation bias. Once it becomes prevalent within law enforcement, it's going to be very hard to root out.

It's a cyclical situation where black communities are less wealthy and socially disadvantaged in America. This leads to them encountering drugs and crime more often (the motivating factors and background on the war on drugs is a whole other story), leading them to come into contact with law enforcement more often and therefore becoming stereotyped by that law enforcement.

The incarcertaion numbers in America are insane. They're 5 times what they were in 1980. There is a higer number of black people in prison than white people despite the fact that they make up about 14% and 64% of the populaion respectively.

The law enforcement may be the front line of this situation but the situation and the culture is as a result of generations of instruction from political leaders to focus on certain aspects of society which increases the focus on black communities, conviction rates, prison populations etc.

From what I'm seeing, the attacks on protestors seem to be equal opportunity ones. Vast majority of the journalists attacked by police that I've seen catalogued so far were white. They've attacked different nationalities too. French and Australian journalists included. The Oz guys were reporting live from outside the WH when they were attacked. Cameraman was punched as he was filming.

Bazzo · 02-06-2020 4:21pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

From what I'm seeing, the attacks on protestors seem to be equal opportunity ones. Vast majority of the journalists attacked by police that I've seen catalogued so far were white. They've attacked different nationalities too. French and Australian journalists included. The Oz guys were reporting live from outside the WH when they were attacked. Cameraman was punched as he was filming.

Yep, this was the sort of **** I meant. Or just deciding to launch pepper spray and tear gas into a totally non violent crowd.

jacothelad · 02-06-2020 4:22pm

jacothelad wrote: »

That the virus is losing it's virulence....and the Italian doctor is completely wrong.

Clegg wrote: »

Ok. But I never said anything of the sort to begin with. There appears to be some evidence that it's harder to catch outdoors, but that's it. I don't believe there is a lesser strain in circulation.

Who said you did? It has been reported in the press about the 'loss of potency' without any data or evidence and denied, totally denied, by the WHO. It has always been clear that respiratory viruses don't present as serious a threat outdoors but indoors is a different scenario. One lesson we can all learn during 'flu season is to continue the hand washing, coughing cover etc.

Neil3030 · 02-06-2020 4:37pm

Army is the only way to go at this point.

1. Optics. Protests sparked by and largely against police brutality, so the sight of tooled up police in uniform can't be helping the mood amongst protesters.
2. Emotions. I can understand how some cops eventually snap, having abuse and objects flung at them all day. Any aggression or retaliation by police then compounds the situation exponentially. Army personnel could at least detach themselves psychologically from the protests being directed at them, stay cooler for longer.
3. Skills. Army forces have better training in negotiation and de-escalation procedures.

irishbucsfan · 02-06-2020 4:51pm

The House of Commins just took 43 minutes to do a vote under Rees-Mogg’s new system. Biggar and Parnell must be looking down on them laughing their arses off

jacothelad · 02-06-2020 4:51pm

61895.. The number of UK deaths over the norm during the lock-down.....Well done Tory Boy. Number 1 again.
USA. 33 DEATHS PER 100,000 Population is 328,200,000...... 106,000 Covid deaths.
UK....92 DEATHS PER 100,000...Population is 66.650,000...........61895 Covid deaths

Buer · 02-06-2020 5:11pm

jacothelad wrote: »

61895.. The number of UK deaths over the norm during the lock-down.....Well done Tory Boy. Number 1 again.
USA. 33 DEATHS PER 100,000 Population is 328,200,000...... 106,000 Covid deaths.
UK....92 DEATHS PER 100,000...Population is 66.650,000...........61895 Covid deaths

I've only seen that the death count the Tories were reporting only included those whose Covid-19 test was positive in a public/NHS lab. This changed yesterday so an additional 500 deaths were included. They were just quietly added to the total without addressing the jump.

That's only in England too. Commercial lab numbers for Scotland, Wales and NI still aren't being counted towards deaths.

prawnsambo · 02-06-2020 5:41pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Army is the only way to go at this point.

1. Optics. Protests sparked by and largely against police brutality, so the sight of tooled up police in uniform can't be helping the mood amongst protesters.
2. Emotions. I can understand how some cops eventually snap, having abuse and objects flung at them all day. Any aggression or retaliation by police then compounds the situation exponentially. Army personnel could at least detach themselves psychologically from the protests being directed at them, stay cooler for longer.
3. Skills. Army forces have better training in negotiation and de-escalation procedures.

It was military police who were involved in the clearout of protestors outside the WH last night so that Trump could do his little photo-op and prove he wasn't afraid of the protesters. Not sure adding the army into the mix is going to help de-escalate anything.

swiwi_ · 02-06-2020 5:50pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

Army is the only way to go at this point.

1. Optics. Protests sparked by and largely against police brutality, so the sight of tooled up police in uniform can't be helping the mood amongst protesters.
2. Emotions. I can understand how some cops eventually snap, having abuse and objects flung at them all day. Any aggression or retaliation by police then compounds the situation exponentially. Army personnel could at least detach themselves psychologically from the protests being directed at them, stay cooler for longer.
3. Skills. Army forces have better training in negotiation and de-escalation procedures.

What about a statement from the President that America has an ingrained racism problem, that it’s not acceptable and that it needs to change...

Podge_irl · 02-06-2020 5:56pm

Neil3030 wrote: »

3. Skills. Army forces have better training in negotiation and de-escalation procedures.

This is both potentially true, and a damning indictment of policing in America.

Reminds me of the story of the Marine vet turned cop who tried to talk down a clearly suicidal man with a gun, only for back up to arrive and immediately kill him and the calm cop then got fired for failing to shoot the guy.

For whatever their faults, we are lucky the guard are not essentially an adversarial force.

jacothelad · 02-06-2020 6:19pm

jacothelad wrote: »

61895.. The number of UK deaths over the norm during the lock-down.....Well done Tory Boy. Number 1 again.
USA. 33 DEATHS PER 100,000 Population is 328,200,000...... 106,000 Covid deaths.
UK....92 DEATHS PER 100,000...Population is 66.650,000...........61895 Covid deaths

Buer wrote: »

I've only seen that the death count the Tories were reporting only included those whose Covid-19 test was positive in a public/NHS lab. This changed yesterday so an additional 500 deaths were included. They were just quietly added to the total without addressing the jump.

That's only in England too. Commercial lab numbers for Scotland, Wales and NI still aren't being counted towards deaths.

The 61,895 are covid related excess deaths recorded by the ONS during the lockdown period in all situations.

prawnsambo · 02-06-2020 6:40pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

What about a statement from the President that America has an ingrained racism problem, that it’s not acceptable and that it needs to change...

Very unlikely thing for the racist-in-chief to say.

Neil3030 · 02-06-2020 7:23pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

This is both potentially true, and a damning indictment of policing in America.

Reminds me of the story of the Marine vet turned cop who tried to talk down a clearly suicidal man with a gun, only for back up to arrive and immediately kill him and the calm cop then got fired for failing to shoot the guy.

For whatever their faults, we are lucky the guard are not essentially an adversarial force.

Yeah that story is a great example.

Principal reason is money (army have an awful lot more of it, so they can research and train people on these kind of skills).

But also, decentralized law and policing oversight. Pretty much the reason the FBI exists, but rather than local police being corrupted by mobsters, they are corrupted by their immediate surrounding context.
Hard to break regional groupthink without greatly increased federal oversight on policing that America will never go for.

Panda Killa · 02-06-2020 7:57pm

Nickelodeon in America were running black lives matter adverts..and they went off the air for 9 minutes to show solidarity with protesters .... you know shít is getting real when a kids channel does this

Buer · 02-06-2020 8:16pm

Panda Killa wrote: »

Nickelodeon in America were running black lives matter adverts..and they went off the air for 9 minutes to show solidarity with protesters .... you know shít is getting real when a kids channel does this

8 minutes and 46 seconds, the same amount of time the police officer knelt on Floyd's neck.

Disturbing in the extreme when you have context to just how long it was.

Panda Killa · 02-06-2020 8:18pm

Buer wrote: »

8 minutes and 46 seconds, the same amount of time the police officer knelt on Floyd's neck.

Disturbing in the extreme when you have context to just how long it was.

An advert for 9 mins of the sound of someone just breathing....so as to make it a bit more tangible..

Off Topic Thread 5.0

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