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Mental Load

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Comments

  • #32
    Cutie 3.14
    Registered Users Posts: 610 ✭✭✭Cutie 3.14


    I have always found this to be the case in most of my romantic relationships. While I'm sure I'm partially to blame for just letting things slide and putting up with it, it is very frustrating!
    Luggage packer, actually add hotel booker and activity planner to that...form filler, post office goer..and the list goes on..

    I want you to be my partner, 50/50. I dont want to be your Mammy!!

    I recently came across Florence Given on Instagram, she talks a lot about this stuff and funky as hell. Worth a quick gander at least!


  • #33
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    I'm the planner in our family.
    Holidays, I'm the one who researches them, trawls for the best price, packs for me and our child, including the family toiletries, medications, beach toys. I'm the one who ensures the child has swim stuff that fits him etc.
    Our wedding planning, I'm the one who has done literally every single bit - the upside of that though is that he genuinely does not care what arrangements I make or what money I spend on it.
    But that's all I could tolerate though. If he didn't pull his weight around the house, or if I had to nag him into doing every little thing, it wouldn't work.
    There's a book called Wifework by Susan Maushart that is quite good though it's been a long time since I read it.


  • #34
    jrosen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,629 ✭✭✭jrosen


    I was a single parent when I met my now husband so the mental load was all on me all of the time, maybe because of that I was so sure I wanted a more equal balance?

    There are areas I do more in like house work/kids appointments etc but then he would do more regarding pensions/financial side plus he works full time and im part time

    I see women alot talk about carrying the mental load but i do wonder if we bring alot of that worry on ourselves.

    I dont think the breakdown of who does what matters as much as both people feeling like they carry a fare share and are supported by the other person


  • #35
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    Dont do it and when its not done and he quetions why its not done, tell him he should have done it. You're not his mother or his secretary and he knows he doesnt have to do any of it because you'll end up doing it.


  • #36
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Dont do it and when its not done and he quetions why its not done, tell him he should have done it. You're not his mother or his secretary and he knows he doesnt have to do any of it because you'll end up doing it.

    In principle that works OK but you have to be on top of certain things. If one passport is not renewed when going on holiday it will affect all. Similar not renewing health insurance (although it's mostly done automatically) can have serious consequences. At some stage you become a unit and sometimes unit functions only if things are done.

    I agree though that there are things that just don't need to be done and can be left till the other person decides they need to be done.


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  • #37
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    meeeeh wrote: »
    In principle that works OK but you have to be on top of certain things. If one passport is not renewed when going on holiday it will affect all. Similar not renewing health insurance (although it's mostly done automatically) can have serious consequences. At some stage you become a unit and sometimes unit functions only if things are done.

    I agree though that there are things that just don't need to be done and can be left till the other person decides they need to be done.

    If his passport isnt in date, then he stays home while everyone else goes on holiday. If he doesnt renew his health insurance, then he doesnt have health insurance.. it's his problem.

    Id refuse to do anything for him, if he wants to be a man child, he can deal with the consequences.


  • #38
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    If his passport isnt in date, then he stays home while everyone else goes on holiday. If he doesnt renew his health insurance, then he doesnt have health insurance.. it's his problem.

    Id refuse to do anything for him, if he wants to be a man child, he can deal with the consequences.

    When kids are involved the person who stays at home enjoys the peace and the person going deals alone with kids. Health insurance is often for all including kids. Also one person getting seriously sick and not having right insurance would affect all in the household. That's the difference between being a unit and being two individuals. It's a lot more muddled.


  • #39
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    meeeeh wrote: »
    When kids are involved the person who stays at home enjoys the peace and the person going deals alone with kids. Health insurance is often for all including kids. Also one person getting seriously sick and not having right insurance would affect all in the household. That's the difference between being a unit and being two individuals. It's a lot more muddled.

    I understand that but if he wants to be an individual in the relationship, id let him at it. Its hard enough having to look after actual children without having to take on a man child too.


  • #40
    Loveinapril
    Registered Users Posts: 2,326 ✭✭✭Loveinapril


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    I understand that but if he wants to be an individual in the relationship, id let him at it. Its hard enough having to look after actual children without having to take on a man child too.

    Again it's easier said than done. There are financial implications to the sorts of things Meeeeh mentions, like paying for a family holiday if not everyone can go. Or for instance, my husband missing a few monthly car insurance payments therefore needing to pay for the rest of the year in full or losing his policy. There was also a time a few years back where he missed a few phone bill payments so was cut off and had no way of contacting me/ being contacted by me from one end of the day to the next (while we had a newborn). It would also never really occur to him to pay our childminder at the time so I need to look after that or we risk losing childcare. ŹMy brother has had times where his wife (he carries the mental load in their family) sent their kids to school without lunches or has failed to pay for school trips etc. These things are important enough to warrant someone taking charge, even though it is a pain for the carrier.


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    I understand that but if he wants to be an individual in the relationship, id let him at it. Its hard enough having to look after actual children without having to take on a man child too.

    I'd love to know if you've managed to successfully implement these principles.

    In theory I'd totally agree, but whenever I step back and try to leave him to himself, it NEVER results in him taking responsibility or realising he needs to step up. Usually I get one of two results:
    a) He never ends up being bothered by the thing that's not done, so I'm only annoying myself by not doing it for him.
    b) We'll both suffer the negative consequences and he'll recognise it as bad luck, without learning any lesson or changing any of his behaviour in future.


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  • #42
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    true-or-false wrote: »
    I'd love to know if you've managed to successfully implement these principles.

    In theory I'd totally agree, but whenever I step back and try to leave him to himself, it NEVER results in him taking responsibility or realising he needs to step up. Usually I get one of two results:
    a) He never ends up being bothered by the thing that's not done, so I'm only annoying myself by not doing it for him.
    b) We'll both suffer the negative consequences and he'll recognise it as bad luck, without learning any lesson or changing any of his behaviour in future.

    Honestly, I'd cut them loose if they didn't learn after a while. What use is a partner who drags you down instead of being a support?

    At some point you've to take responsibility for accepting the behaviour and in some way enabling it. Most men and women are perfectly capable of being grownups, but plenty coast through life bemoaning their "bad luck" which they have soundly brought upon themselves through forgetting to pay their phone bills etc.

    It takes time and reinforcement, of course it does. Being responsible for yourself and others, as an adult isn't easy if you don't know how. That's why our parents put that effort into teaching us to dress ourselves , feed ourselves, use money, drive etc. All the skills you need to survive in an adult world without parents.

    When I started being the main breadwinner, and my husband took on the home role, there were a few rough weeks of the kids not getting to school on time, no lunches, empty cupboards, and some bills missed. Everyone wants to be the nice guy, but at some stage some straight talk (aka a serious bollocking) is needed if it keeps getting missed. Otherwise you've a long life of frustration and misery ahead.


  • #43
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    It's one of those things though that you find out early enough before you've get kids and a mortgage if your partner is happy to let you carry the mental load or not.


    Now, there's a difference between being the one who's usually the 'organiser' of the house and and being a total mammy to your partner. I'd be the logistics planner of the family. I like it and I'm good at it. And because he hates that job, most of the time he's fine with the decisions I make.

    But the kind of man who can't make his own dental appointment or blames you for not waking him up for work or reminding him to send a mothers day card to his mother, you are better dumping him in the early days long before you get tied down. Being a pseudo Mammy will kill any attraction to him faster than anything.


  • #44
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    true-or-false wrote: »
    I'd love to know if you've managed to successfully implement these principles.

    In theory I'd totally agree, but whenever I step back and try to leave him to himself, it NEVER results in him taking responsibility or realising he needs to step up. Usually I get one of two results:
    a) He never ends up being bothered by the thing that's not done, so I'm only annoying myself by not doing it for him.
    b) We'll both suffer the negative consequences and he'll recognise it as bad luck, without learning any lesson or changing any of his behaviour in future.

    Honestly, id just leave the relationship. What is the point?


  • #45
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Hmmmm. It's a tough one because at different stages of life it feels different. And there are important externals to weigh up.
    At the beginning of the affair you are just mad to love the person so nothing is too much and it feels sweet and easy.
    And then there is raising a family and the huge effort of that and that is the testiest time when a fuse or two or a million may have to blow to get a message across. I would say that is normal - it is a kind of crazy thing to do, to make and rear new people, what a big responsibility, no manual, just winging it as it steadily gets wilder and weirder until the day they head off themselves.
    But then after that there is a more peaceful time because there has been a lot of smoothing of rough edges, acceptance and compromise. Like okay I still do all the organising but I am bored of cooking now, so you do most of it. Like that. Less squabbling over nothing.

    I am the organiser. Have largely been the home maker and kept the whole administrative show running. Holidays. Appointments. Education. Bills. All of that stuff. We both earn, him more. He is just not as good as I am at making money last or keeping track of everything, or keeping a home together. But he was always way better than me at being really chilled, having infinite time for and fun with the children, being patient, reining in my inclinations to be sarcastic or dark, lifting heavy stuff, awkward gardening things, and being really funny and charming. Plus he does the social end of things which drives me mad bar for a sacred few, so I could/can have a lot of peace and quiet to do my hobbies.
    Overall I have not minded carrying the heavier mental load domestically. It has been more stressful, and sometimes incredibly so, but there is accomplishment in it.
    I reckon the big question at any of the stages is are you on balance happier with them than you would be otherwise? If as will happen there are times that no, you are freaking run ragged, then be firm and say exactly what you need. I would just down tools and head off. No crossness, just a general fcuk it, Im done. Even did that recently! And always came back to find big efforts made. But mostly, hopefully, you will be able to say yeah, on balance even with my heftier share of certain loads I am happier with the big lummox that I would be without. So you will accept the hassles. And vice versa of course. It ain't easy living with the oddness of anyone else... even if they are a great organiser!


  • #46
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    The was on woman on some discussion program talking about home working and homeschooling, anyway, she wanted to know why the school was only emailing her when he school also had her husband's email and contact details.

    Be interesting to know how parents who were both home working and homeschooling divided the work.

    Its not about making a list and dividing it exactly, but who dose most of the thinking work of the relationship.


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Honestly, id just leave the relationship. What is the point?

    Sex?

    Honestly the house is one small part of our relationship. We don't have kids or anything, so housework/life admin isn't usually so overwhelming. We've just bought our first house and I've had to do the vast majority of heavy lifting, so my rants here are a pretty biased account of our relationship. The other 99% of the time, there aren't quite so many decisions to be made or issues to be fixed, so while the mental load still sits with me, I'm able to delegate work to him more easily. Outside of all the house stuff, I'd say he actually does a lot more for me emotionally than I do for him.


  • #48
    Airyfairy12
    Registered Users Posts: 3,389 ✭✭✭Airyfairy12


    true-or-false wrote: »
    Sex?

    Honestly the house is one small part of our relationship. We don't have kids or anything, so housework/life admin isn't usually so overwhelming. We've just bought our first house and I've had to do the vast majority of heavy lifting, so my rants here are a pretty biased account of our relationship. The other 99% of the time, there aren't quite so many decisions to be made or issues to be fixed, so while the mental load still sits with me, I'm able to delegate work to him more easily. Outside of all the house stuff, I'd say he actually does a lot more for me emotionally than I do for him.

    Are you with him just for sex? I dont understand?

    You do what works for you. My opinion still stands, I would rather be single and living in a shack than carry the weight of a man child.
    I can understand the emotional connection and if I had to choose id probably prefar emotional support over household duties if im honest, still cant see myself cleaning up after someone, washing their clothes, having to remind them to renew their own passport, it just seems incredibly draining.


  • #49
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Why are people so quick to judge relationships they know very little about?

    Every person is so much more than the sum of their household duties, every relationship is full of compromises, disagreements, cooperation and as long as the people in it are happy on the whole (nobody is happy all the time) it's working. There is no point sticking in a relationship that's not working but some perseverance and compromise is needed for a successful relationship.


  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Airyfairy12 wrote: »
    Are you with him just for sex? I dont understand?

    Sorry - that was a joke!


  • #51
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    true-or-false wrote: »
    Sex?

    Honestly the house is one small part of our relationship. We don't have kids or anything, so housework/life admin isn't usually so overwhelming. We've just bought our first house and I've had to do the vast majority of heavy lifting, so my rants here are a pretty biased account of our relationship. The other 99% of the time, there aren't quite so many decisions to be made or issues to be fixed, so while the mental load still sits with me, I'm able to delegate work to him more easily. Outside of all the house stuff, I'd say he actually does a lot more for me emotionally than I do for him.

    Ah you can get sex easy peasy, we all can. There's tinder and all sorts these days :D


    No kids. But, the first major responsibility hurdle you describe, he has fallen. I'd keep a eye on it, ya know, don't go committing until you're happy you're not being taken for granted. A lifetime is a loooong time to be minding someone. Small things add up. NCT, car tax, credit cards getting paid off etc. Life admin.


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  • #52
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Why are people so quick to judge relationships they know very little about?

    Every person is so much more than the sum of their household duties, every relationship is full of compromises, disagreements, cooperation and as long as the people in it are happy on the whole (nobody is happy all the time) it's working. There is no point sticking in a relationship that's not working but some perseverance and compromise is needed for a successful relationship.

    I don't think anyone is quick to judge, but if you have an apparent incompatibility.... and the other person isn't even remotely interested in trying to solve it, then what other option is there?


  • #53
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    pwurple wrote: »
    I don't think anyone is quick to judge, but if you have an apparent incompatibility.... and the other person isn't even remotely interested in trying to solve it, then what other option is there?

    However how do you know you have apparent incompatibility. What suits me probably wouldn't suit you and vice versa. For example when we were building house my husband did the lion share, I do more now. It works for us it might not work for someone else but that doesn't mean our relationship is unhappy one despite me carrying household mental load. My husband carries business mental load. I'm talking about my relationship because that's the only one I know but others might have different arrangements that either work for them or don't. I think it's rude for me telling others that they should leave the relationship just because something wouldn't work for me.

    That doesn't mean we are not entitled to whinge about something here every so often. :D


  • #54
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I think it's rude for me telling others that they should leave the relationship just because something wouldn't work for me.

    I don't answering a very specific question from my own perspective is rude... but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you either missed part of the thread or have misinterpreted the responses with your own background on top.

    This was what I quoted.
    I'd love to know if you've managed to successfully implement these principles.

    In theory I'd totally agree, but whenever I step back and try to leave him to himself, it NEVER results in him taking responsibility or realising he needs to step up. Usually I get one of two results:
    a) He never ends up being bothered by the thing that's not done, so I'm only annoying myself by not doing it for him.
    b) We'll both suffer the negative consequences and he'll recognise it as bad luck, without learning any lesson or changing any of his behaviour in future.


    And my response was that I personally wouldn't put up with it.

    That was also the response of other people, they responded on what they would do.

    I don't see a single person here say "You should end your relationship".

    Maybe you're reading something that isn't written.


  • #55
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    pwurple wrote: »
    I don't answering a very specific question from my own perspective is rude... but I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you either missed part of the thread or have misinterpreted the responses with your own background on top.

    This was what I quoted.



    And my response was that I personally wouldn't put up with it.

    That was also the response of other people, they responded on what they would do.

    I don't see a single person here say "You should end your relationship".

    Maybe you're reading something that isn't written.

    I was actually commenting on the person who said they would just leave the relationship but if you want to see it as a criticism of your post then who am I to argue.

    I don't like it when people need to start justifying their relationship to others online.


  • #56
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I was actually commenting on the person who said they would just leave the relationship but if you want to see it as a criticism of your post then who am I to argue.


    Yes, a few of us all said we would leave the relationship when asked what we would do in a particular situation. That's very different to telling someone else what they should do, which is what you said.
    I don't like it when people need to start justifying their relationship to others online.
    Agreed.


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