Aluminium v carbon - wheel upgrade

Pinch Flat · 01-06-2020 12:39pm #1

Apologies but might have been covered previously.

Bought a storck aerfast two years ago. Great bike - light and stiff. Being toying with the idea of upgrading the wheels- it came with entey level DT Swiss R24 Spline. Not bad but heavy enough at 1900g. Some less weight and more stiffness could help. I'm a 105kg sportive \ rec rider, don't race.

My initial thoughts were carbon wheels - knock a good bit of weight off and also complement the aero qualities of the bike. Price is a big problem. Looking at dropping well north of €1200 for a branded \ main stream set

Started looking at prime wheels on CRC - their own brand wheels. Reviews are great, but seems to be a few niggles with failing hubs which would be pain. Reviews good otherwise.

Also looking at FFWD factory outlet - reckon €600 would get me some entry level light Wheels.

Also saw campags eurus. Aluminium and priced well at the moment €550 should get me a pair. Put some zondas on my aluminium winter bike and the difference was noticeable over the entry level campags.

Any thoughts? Entry level carbon or higher spec alumium wheels that seem to be just as light?

triggermortis · 01-06-2020 1:00pm

I am (was) in a similar position and was looking at Prime - there's a version 3 out now that looks good. I was looking at some of the chinese sites that have decent reputations and you can get decent wheels in that price range. Farsports was one site I remember looking at.
This was at the start of the year when expenses I was receiving from being on a course was to fund this upgrade, however with covid denting my spending power, this plan has been shelved for now.

Pinch Flat · 01-06-2020 1:04pm

Yeah I'm in two minds about some of the Chinese sites. Seems to be a few horror stories, but I'm sure some are building for brands. Read a good article about these - I'll see if I can find it.

dahat · 01-06-2020 1:16pm

Sorry to say but shifting some bulk will help more than any wheels. The lighter wheels may have weight limits that could cause spoke issues etc.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 01-06-2020 1:20pm

A set of Fulcrum Wind 40’s (which are renamed Quattros with AC3 braking surface as opposed to the 3 Diamanté surface that was on the Quattro carbons) are €1035 from Probikekit and weigh in around 1480g (the quoted figure says 1555g but that’s incorrect and they’ll be sub 1500) They’re as light as you are going to get in a branded wheel and at 40mm depth won’t cause issues in the wind. The braking surface is also as good as you will get in carbon wheels in both the wet and dry so long as you use the supplied campy red pads.

https://www.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-wheels/fulcrum-wind-40c-c17-carbon-clincher-wheelset/12360308.html

Pinch Flat · 01-06-2020 1:28pm

dahat wrote: »

Sorry to say but shifting some bulk will help more than any wheels. The lighter wheels may have weight limits that could cause spoke issues etc.

Yeah aware of that. Definitely put on a bit these past few months - less exercise. Usually about 97kg. Also conscious not to buy wheels with a 80kg limit or something like that.

Pinch Flat · 01-06-2020 1:41pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

A set of Fulcrum Wind 40’s (which are renamed Quattros with AC3 braking surface as opposed to the 3 Diamanté surface that was on the Quattro carbons) are €1035 from Probikekit and weigh in around 1480g (the quoted figure says 1555g but that’s incorrect and they’ll be sub 1500) They’re as light as you are going to get in a branded wheel and at 40mm depth won’t cause issues in the wind. The braking surface is also as good as you will get in carbon wheels in both the wet and dry so long as you use the supplied campy red pads.

https://www.probikekit.co.uk/bicycle-wheels/fulcrum-wind-40c-c17-carbon-clincher-wheelset/12360308.html

Nice looking set of wheels, but outside my budget. I'm looking at €700 max.

magicbastarder · 01-06-2020 1:45pm

how about hunt?
e.g.
https://eu.huntbikewheels.com/collections/road-cx-rim-brake-wheels/products/hunt-race-season-aero-wide-road-wheelset-1480g-31deep-24wide

they're below your budget but they do have more expensive options.

Tony04 · 01-06-2020 2:34pm

+1 for hunts they probably make the best value wheels out there.
These dt swiss https://www.merlincycles.com/dt-swiss-pr-1600-spline-23-clincher-road-wheelset-700c-108393.html are also nice I've a similar version in disc are perfectly fine.

Mavic ksyrium is also relatively good value for money.

dahat · 01-06-2020 3:59pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Nice looking set of wheels, but outside my budget. I'm looking at €700 max.

I hammered around on a set of Aksium elites when near 110kg , can be bought cheaply and will allow for another upgrade elsewhere.

CramCycle · 01-06-2020 10:48pm

Pinch Flat wrote: »

My initial thoughts were carbon wheels - knock a good bit of weight off and also complement the aero qualities of the bike. Price is a big problem. Looking at dropping well north of €1200 for a branded \ main stream set

There are plenty of smaller brands doing just as decent and light wheels for alot less.

Started looking at prime wheels on CRC - their own brand wheels. Reviews are great, but seems to be a few niggles with failing hubs which would be pain. Reviews good otherwise.

They are supposedly very good for returns though and reports are if they go out of warranty, the parts are easy to acquire for straight replacements unlike some big name brands.

Any thoughts? Entry level carbon or higher spec alumium wheels that seem to be just as light?

Your fine either way, Alu will just be cheaper but slightly heavier, almost everything you get in your price range will save nearly 500g though. I have the Hunt Aero Race, and they were under 1400g but looking at their site now they are just under 1500g.

From Prime:
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/prime-attaquer-disc-alloy-wheelset/rp-prod187141
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/prime-rr-28-v2-carbon-clincher-wheelset/rp-prod166643
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/prime-blackedition-28-carbon-wheelset/rp-prod166634

But thats only for speed, lots of other options if your not in a rush from small independent builders in the UK, some are just rebranded Chinese wheels, but the benefit of an easier return and warranty, and a few are built in house, some even to order.

As dahat said though, nothing wrong with the Askiums, they will do the job, easy to source and on special all the time, so you'd probably pick up 4 sets for the price of one of the 600euro wheelsets. Not tremendously amenable to repair though, so buy them to bin them eventually. I typically got two+ years out of them.

lennymc · 02-06-2020 10:14am

i've won races on these - https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/ie/en/pro-lite-bracciano-a42w-dark-label-alloy-wheelset/rp-prod184760
north of 90kg wider, done thousands of miles. Replaced the rear wheel bearings at the end of last year, and apart from that, no issues. They are. a bit heavier, but strong, and an excellent price.

Chips Lovell · 02-06-2020 12:03pm

The main benefit carbon gives as a rim material is that you can manufacture aero wheels that don't weigh an absolute tonne. If you're not racing, you don't need aero wheels. You'll get zero benefit from them.

Would suggest mid-level Campag or Mavic wheels. Nice to ride, reliable, and serviceable.

Plastik · 02-06-2020 3:06pm

Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.

lennymc · 02-06-2020 3:29pm

Plastik wrote: »

Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.

yes it is.

dahat · 02-06-2020 4:44pm

Plastik wrote: »

Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting.

There is nothing after racing..

ednwireland · 02-06-2020 4:49pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

The main benefit carbon gives as a rim material is that you can manufacture aero wheels that don't weigh an absolute tonne. If you're not racing, you don't need aero wheels. You'll get zero benefit from them.

Would suggest mid-level Campag or Mavic wheels. Nice to ride, reliable, and serviceable.

thats a ridiculous post, if you want blingy aero wheels go buy them, in fact im sure saying you dont need something is against the forum charter

paddydriver · 02-06-2020 5:13pm

Tony04 wrote: »

+1 for hunts they probably make the best value wheels out there.
These dt swiss https://www.merlincycles.com/dt-swiss-pr-1600-spline-23-clincher-road-wheelset-700c-108393.html are also nice I've a similar version in disc are perfectly fine.

Mavic ksyrium is also relatively good value for money.

+1 for the Ksyrium Elite's - have them between 2 bikes about 6 years now and never an issue; I am also up around the 95-97kg range. Very happy with them - have has in rim brake and now disc.

paddydriver · 02-06-2020 5:15pm

ednwireland wrote: »

thats a ridiculous post, if you want blingy aero wheels go buy them, in fact im sure saying you dont need something is against the forum charter

Ditto... should have pointed out on my above post ^^^ that next bike will have carbon aero wheels - always scouring the Canyon site for next purchase but seriously slow shipping times at the moment for 2020 bikes.

BTW.. I don't race; but do those 3 sport thingy's that best not mention around here.

Pinch Flat · 02-06-2020 5:29pm

ednwireland wrote: »

thats a ridiculous post, if you want blingy aero wheels go buy them, in fact im sure saying you dont need something is against the forum charter

They were kind of my thoughts as well. Although a big chap

I can hold my own at 30kph for a decent period of time. June bank holiday weekend last year travelled the 178km solo from Dublin to Terryglass at an average of 30kph. If I can improve this by 2kph or the like by using some blingy carbon wheels so be it :pac:. The plan to reduce my own bulk is underway - made great inroads Jan/ Feb this year (10kg shed), so need to get back on the programme. I'll get myself down to 100kg handy enough then take it from there

byrnem31 · 02-06-2020 8:02pm

I have alluminium wheels on my giant defy advanced 2 2020.
They are a little on the heavy side but sturdy solid wheels.
Yet I have seen newbies going out and spend half the price of the bike on carbon wheels that will be battered to ****e in 6 months time and lose a fortune over a bit of weight.
My wheels are meant to be sturdy as it can go on gravel so I don't need 1000 euro wheels that I'm going to be baiting around on gravel paths.

harringtonp · 02-06-2020 9:40pm

Looking at some of the suggestions coming up here, check out wheelbuilders. Search old threads for the likes of dcrwheels, spokesman and you'll soon get on the right track.

Tony04 · 02-06-2020 10:25pm

Theres no real point buying carbon unless your racing for the lightweight aero benefit.
The advantage can only really be seen at high speed I.e crit racing.
On climbs weight only really makes a difference and you can get plenty light aluminum wheels that arent aero.
Even at that i wouldnt buy carbon wheels with rim brakes as it's not worth while if the rim wears it.
If only buy carbon wheels for a disc brake bike as you can have then for much longer.
And even at that I'd only use them for racing, and not for training.

Plastik · 02-06-2020 11:01pm

Tony04 wrote: »

Theres no real point buying carbon unless your racing for the lightweight aero benefit.
The advantage can only really be seen at high speed I.e crit racing.
On climbs weight only really makes a difference and you can get plenty light aluminum wheels that arent aero.
Even at that i wouldnt buy carbon wheels with rim brakes as it's not worth while if the rim wears it.
If only buy carbon wheels for a disc brake bike as you can have then for much longer.
And even at that I'd only use them for racing, and not for training.

Unless you want lightweight aero benefit every time you ride.
Unless you go fast all the time.
Prime 50mm full carbon clinchers that are about 1600g. Top spec light alloy Mavic R-Sys SLRs are 1300g. 300g is a very decent amount, and those Mavics cost X3 of what the carbon wheels cost. Everyone's favourite wheel on here, the Campag Zonda, north of 1500g.
All rim brake bikes suffer with wheel rims wearing, alloy and carbon.

Some bizarre arguments against carbon wheels in this thread. Buy what yis want lads, but carbon rims look better, sound cooler, and go faster.

Alanbt · 02-06-2020 11:11pm

I have some cheap to mid range carbon wheels (Prime 50mm and fulcrum Carbon Quattro) and decent Alu rims (zondas and fulcrum zeros).

Based on pure looks the carbon wheels are just sexier. If I had to choose one set purely based on performance I’d go for the Fulcrums zeros. They look good too just not as good as deeper carbon rims.

You’ll just have to get both alu and carbon wheels! I get the impression that if you don’t get carbon now though you’ll alway have that itch to scratch.

Tony04 · 02-06-2020 11:23pm

Plastik wrote: »

Some bizarre arguments against carbon wheels in this thread. Buy what yis want lads, but carbon rims look better, sound cooler, and go faster.

Aha I agree, but you forgetting the key issue cost, difference between zondas and prime 50mm is 300€ every year and a half or so you replace it, that's a fair chunk to put towards a new bike etc.

Plastik wrote: »

Unless you want lightweight aero benefit every time you ride.
Unless you go fast all the time.

But you may aswell be racing on strava then arent you. The difference is only marginal up to speeds of 40kph, going tubeless would be as much a gain for much cheaper.

Just to be clear I've nothing against carbon wheels yes they faster etc. But what's the point paying alot more for something that probably only offers a minimal speed gain, and that doesnt offer better durability if anything less.

Chips Lovell · 03-06-2020 10:05am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I can hold my own at 30kph for a decent period of time. June bank holiday weekend last year travelled the 178km solo from Dublin to Terryglass at an average of 30kph. If I can improve this by 2kph or the like by using some blingy carbon wheels so be it

What you need to bear in mind is that drag doesn't increase linearly. The increase is more akin to exponential. You only really start to see a noticeable difference at high speeds, i.e. north of 40kph and even then a gain of 2kph would be unrealistic.

I say this as someone who's a.) spaffed more than their fair share of money on unnecessary bike purchases in the past and hate to see others waste as much money as I did and b.) more recently, spaffed more than their fair share of money on TT gear and have a decent appreciation of the real-world differences aerodynamic equipment will make.

Tony04 wrote: »

Even at that i wouldnt buy carbon wheels with rim brakes as it's not worth while if the rim wears it.
If only buy carbon wheels for a disc brake bike as you can have then for much longer.

I've had the same set of carbon rims for more than 10 years and haven't worn though them yet. If you're just using them for racing, it's just going to for a relatively small proportion of your annual mileage (and in usually less crappy weather).

The problem with discs for racing is when you puncture, you could be waiting a long time on the side of the road for a compatible wheel.

rcklap · 03-06-2020 11:15am

Would anyone recommend a particular Alu tubeless rim brake wheelset? Currently running Zondas and set of Aksiums.

CramCycle · 03-06-2020 11:47am

rcklap wrote: »

Would anyone recommend a particular Alu tubeless rim brake wheelset? Currently running Zondas and set of Aksiums.

My Hunt race aero wheels are tubeless ready and for rim brakes. I would probably have went with the wide version if I done it again but they have been bomb proof.

magicbastarder · 03-06-2020 12:34pm

Chips Lovell wrote: »

You only really start to see a noticeable difference at high speeds, i.e. north of 40kph and even then a gain of 2kph would be unrealistic.

yeah, i think the difference between 30km/h and 40km/h is approx a doubling in power required?

Chips Lovell · 03-06-2020 12:53pm

Pretty much yeah, at least according to this.

Aluminium v carbon - wheel upgrade

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