Covid 19 PUP - Self-Employed only

ATC110 · 30-07-2020 5:08pm

Received a written reply today, postmarked Waterford, to my request for a review of the weekly rate.

The outcome of the review is I will remain on the lower rate.

It explicitly states "under PUP rating rules, self-employed incomes can only be examined in respect of the 2018 year and the income figures used by the Department for PUP (and all other schemes) is always the figure after capital allowances and deductible business expenses".

There is no return address on the letter and it's signed the "PUP Rerate Team".

There is also no invitation to submit 2019 tax return details.

Has anyone had a similar letter or have they been invited to submit 2019 details?

Dempo1 · 30-07-2020 5:10pm

ATC110 wrote: »

Received a written reply today, postmarked Waterford, to my request for a review of the weekly rate.

The outcome of the review is I will remain on the lower rate.

It explicitly states "under PUP rating rules, self-employed incomes can only be examined in respect of the 2018 year and the income figures used by the Department for PUP (and all other schemes) is always the figure after capital allowances and deductible business expenses".

There is no return address on the letter and it's signed the "PUP Rerate Team".

There is also no invitation to submit 2019 tax return details.

Has anyone had a similar letter or have they been invited to submit 2019 details?

As far as I know, permitting 2019 returns is only being considered by government, there's been no decision on this.

mystic · 30-07-2020 5:27pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

As far as I know, permitting 2019 returns is only being considered by government, there's been no decision on this.

That's not what the Minister said in the Dáil debate on Tuesday. Perhaps the letter was written before the Minister spoke. It's quite possible the relevant sections haven't been informed of the changes yet.

Dempo1 · 30-07-2020 5:30pm

mystic wrote: »

That's not what the Minister said in the Dáil debate on Tuesday. Perhaps the letter was written before the Minister spoke. It's quite possible the relevant sections haven't been informed of the changes yet.

You'll need to confirm this but this is only being considered but not agreed on or finalised, if there's something I've missed, apologies but I'm pretty sure nothing has changed.

Just went through all uodates on the website, updated 27 July & 30 July, no changes re 2018

30-07-2020 8:42pm

ATC110 wrote: »

Received a written reply today, postmarked Waterford, to my request for a review of the weekly rate.

The outcome of the review is I will remain on the lower rate.

It explicitly states "under PUP rating rules, self-employed incomes can only be examined in respect of the 2018 year and the income figures used by the Department for PUP (and all other schemes) is always the figure after capital allowances and deductible business expenses".

There is no return address on the letter and it's signed the "PUP Rerate Team".

There is also no invitation to submit 2019 tax return details.

Has anyone had a similar letter or have they been invited to submit 2019 details?

Sorry to hear that. I have an idea how you feel, my start up costs for 2018 were monstrous. The money still has to be earned even if it is tax deductible and it's grossly unfair that it isn't included.

I'll tell ya, I actually considered applying for jobs today. It's a funny one, a job feels secure and you are paid on a regular basis but it isn't much more secure than being self-employed. The only real difference in terms of security is the pain the self-employed go through developing their business.

Frostybrew · 30-07-2020 9:20pm

ATC110 wrote: »

It explicitly states "under PUP rating rules, self-employed incomes can only be examined in respect of the 2018 year and the income figures used by the Department for PUP (and all other schemes) is always the figure after capital allowances and deductible business expenses".

If this is the case, then it should work both ways. Any self employed person should be able to continue receiving the PUP while working, until the amount of their capital allowances and expenses has been reached.

mystic · 31-07-2020 12:47pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

You'll need to confirm this but this is only being considered but not agreed on or finalised, if there's something I've missed, apologies but I'm pretty sure nothing has changed.

Just went through all uodates on the website, updated 27 July & 30 July, no changes re 2018

There's an update.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c4828-self-employed-and-the-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

ATC110 · 31-07-2020 4:01pm

mystic wrote: »

There's an update.
https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/c4828-self-employed-and-the-pandemic-unemployment-payment/

It doesn't mention whether the increased payment would be backdated or not

HereinBray · 31-07-2020 5:13pm

HereinBray wrote: »

(Yet) Another update

Just got a response to my mail sending off my PRSI payment backup (July 7th) stating that my claim has been awarded and I'll get paid next week. (Happy Dance)

I've asked the question about back payments and will update as I hear.

Thanks and good luck everyone

HIB

The plot thickens!

Got a refusal email from the second application I made yesterday - no record of PRSI etc etc. When I log into my Welfare I can only see the disallowed claim.

This is nuts. I've mailed the person who advised that my original claim was allowed.

Have a nice long weekend!

HIB

Dempo1 · 31-07-2020 5:27pm

HereinBray wrote: »

The plot thickens!

Got a refusal email from the second application I made yesterday - no record of PRSI etc etc. When I log into my Welfare I can only see the disallowed claim.

This is nuts. I've mailed the person who advised that my original claim was allowed.

Have a nice long weekend!

HIB

Confused, approved and then disallowed??

HereinBray · 31-07-2020 5:53pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Confused, approved and then disallowed??

Me too!!!!

My original application was approved yesterday. When I called the helpline before it was approved I was advised to submit another application. This is the one that has now been Disallowed.

Yesterday I was able to see that I was eligible for the payment - not so today.

Sick of the whole flipping thing to be honest.

HIB

Dempo1 · 31-07-2020 5:58pm

HereinBray wrote: »

Me too!!!!

My original application was approved yesterday. When I called the helpline before it was approved I was advised to submit another application. This is the one that has now been Disallowed.

Yesterday I was able to see that I was eligible for the payment - not so today.

Sick of the whole flipping thing to be honest.

HIB

It's an absolute disgrace, will they won't they? It's seem they make decisions on a whim, just awful to put people through this. I was hoping the new update re 2019 would help people. Just hoping it's an error and keeping fingers crossed for you

HereinBray · 31-07-2020 6:02pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

It's an absolute disgrace, will they won't they? It's seem they make decisions on a whim, just awful to put people through this. I was hoping the new update re 2019 would help people. Just hoping it's an error and keeping fingers crossed for you

My contact just got back to me - they have re-allowed (even a word!) my claim.

Apparently the system isn't recognising my PRSI contributions.

Hopefully I'll see the money in my account next week......

Thanks

HIB

Dempo1 · 31-07-2020 6:08pm

HereinBray wrote: »

My contact just got back to me - they have re-allowed (even a word!) my claim.

Apparently the system isn't recognising my PRSI contributions.

Hopefully I'll see the money in my account next week......

Thanks

HIB

Mother of God, its almost like there trying to wind up people, but delighted for you, well done for the perseverance, have a less stressful and nice long weekend

Just a thought, payment files sent on Thursday for payment so might be another week so don't panic

mp22 · 01-08-2020 1:35pm

Yes posts have been deleted...I`sure you all know why.....

Back on topic please

kingbhome · 02-08-2020 9:04am

Hello, if one is on covid19 payment of 350 per week self employed but is in 2 minds to go back to work. Has been staying off because of throat infections, other issues that if covid19 was got, could really effect them more. Has the potential of a small job to go to but is worried if they come off for just one job, will they be able to cliam again if a second wave comes or will they not be eligible again. Have seen something posted about people not being able to cliam after a certain date!

Dempo1 · 02-08-2020 9:14am

kingbhome wrote: »

Hello, if one is on covid19 payment of 350 per week self employed but is in 2 minds to go back to work. Has been staying off because of throat infections, other issues that if covid19 was got, could really effect them more. Has the potential of a small job to go to but is worried if they come off for just one job, will they be able to cliam again if a second wave comes or will they not be eligible again. Have seen something posted about people not being able to cliam after a certain date!

Morning, on looking at the updated rules, you may have to close payment, even for a small job but it says you can reapply but keep in mind no new claims after 17th September will be processed, I guess it's really down to a decision on will a once off job be worth it, close claim and go through process to claim again before 17th September, keep in mind also, payment is reducing also in September. Good luck

ATC110 · 02-08-2020 9:26am

Dempo1 wrote: »

Morning, on looking at the updated rules, you may have to close payment, even for a small job but it says you can reapply but keep in mind no new claims after 17th September will be processed, I guess it's really down to a decision on will a once off job be worth it, close claim and go through process to claim again before 17th September, keep in mind also, payment is reducing also in September. Good luck

On gov.ie it states “ You may, if your trading income has collapsed to the extent that you are available to take up other full-time employment if it was offered to you, receive a payment for so long as you are available to take up other work”

This reads that you can still have some trading income and be in receipt of the PUP so if that applies then the rules are not being breached?

Dempo1 · 02-08-2020 9:36am

ATC110 wrote: »

On gov.ie it states “ You may, if your trading income has collapsed to the extent that you are available to take up other full-time employment if it was offered to you, receive a payment for so long as you are available to take up other work”

This reads that you can still have some trading income and be in receipt of the PUP so if that applies then the rules are not being breached?

Morning, yes I saw that but the ambiguity seems to arise when they refer to actively seeking work, fully unemployed, I guess my reading of it is the fully unemployed bit and I could be wrong, I found this below, scroll down to rules etc Recent update

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/covid19_pandemic_unemployment_payment.html

ATC110 · 02-08-2020 10:07am

Dempo1 wrote: »

Morning, yes I saw that but the ambiguity seems to arise when they refer to actively seeking work, fully unemployed, I guess my reading of it is the fully unemployed bit and I could be wrong, I found this below, scroll down to rules etc Recent update

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/covid19_pandemic_unemployment_payment.html

I don’t see where it mentions “fully employed” and not sure of the context you’re referring to it?

Dempo1 · 02-08-2020 10:20am

ATC110 wrote: »

I don’t see where it mentions “fully employed” and not sure of the context you’re referring to it?

Apologies, typo, Fully Unemployed

HereinBray · 05-08-2020 1:09pm

HereinBray wrote: »

They didn't say - I'll let you know when it hits the bank account (fingers crossed!)

Hi All,

Money hit my account this morning! The higher rate.

HIB

Dempo1 · 05-08-2020 1:17pm

HereinBray wrote: »

Hi All,

Money hit my account this morning! The higher rate.

HIB

Delighted for you

HereinBray · 05-08-2020 1:21pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Delighted for you

Thank you so much.

I have to say that you're a great asset to this thread - thanks for all your help!

amd1982 · 05-08-2020 2:27pm

HereinBray wrote: »

Hi All,

Money hit my account this morning! The higher rate.

HIB

That’s brilliant

mp22 · 05-08-2020 10:32pm

thread closed

mp22 · 06-08-2020 7:04pm

Thread reopened.........I trust that we will not have any further reasons to close it again

MP22

Snow_White1987 · 06-08-2020 8:50pm

HereinBray wrote: »

Hi All,

Money hit my account this morning! The higher rate.

HIB

Fantastic news!

Snow_White1987 · 06-08-2020 8:53pm

ATC110 wrote: »

On gov.ie it states “ You may, if your trading income has collapsed to the extent that you are available to take up other full-time employment if it was offered to you, receive a payment for so long as you are available to take up other work”

This reads that you can still have some trading income and be in receipt of the PUP so if that applies then the rules are not being breached?

This is still what it says on gov.ie under the self-employed section – even after it's been updated – so this is what I go by.

If you have a minuscule bit of work as self-employed that in no way amounts to a regular income so personally, I would leave the claim as is. You'll pay tax on everything – earnings and the PUP – and if you have no income coming in and your claim is closed, I've heard it's impossible to get it re-opened.

Dempo1 · 06-08-2020 9:04pm

Snow_White1987 wrote: »

This is still what it says on gov.ie under the self-employed section – even after it's been updated – so this is what I go by.

If you have a minuscule bit of work as self-employed that in no way amounts to a regular income so personally, I would leave the claim as is. You'll pay tax on everything – earnings and the PUP – and if you have no income coming in and your claim is closed, I've heard it's impossible to get it re-opened.

Hi there, yes I think your both right, Heather Humphries was interviewed on the news at one and was grilled about a few things but she clearly stated the self employed can take up one off, small jobs without their claim be affected.

There maybe be a podcast of the show if anyone wants to listen back

Try this, about half way through
https://www.rte.ie/radio/utils/share/radio1/21814571

Covid 19 PUP - Self-Employed only

Comments