The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

mitchelsontour wrote: »

Lads if you don't play outside your county bounds then you have a home venue.

Apparently if Dublin play outside Dublin in an "away" game it's not an away game if it's in a neutral venue, surely if Dublin play a "home" game in a neutral venue it's not a home game?

2004 was the last time the Dublin senior footballers played at home in the championship.

Festive Life wrote: »

That doesnt mean the senior gaelic football team home ground is Parnell Park. They dont train there, they dont play there in the league or championship.
It isnt there home ground.

It is the home of Dublin GAA, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but thems be the facts.

Strumms wrote: »

Brought 10000 or less.. yes, simply because they didn’t have any more of an allocation or the ability to procure more...

To their only away matches in 14 years. There was nothing stopping more attending their neutral games. 10,000 is pretty pathetic given the population of Dublin.

ArielAtom wrote: »

Sorry to bust your bubble buddy, but the facts state that the home of Dublin GAA is Parnell Park.

Wow. You can lay it out on a plate for people, but some folks just can't grasp it.

flasher0030 wrote: »

Wow. You can lay it out on a plate for people, but some folks just can't grasp it.

Totally agree with you, glad you’ve seen the light.

ooter wrote: »

Apparently if Dublin play outside Dublin in an "away" game it's not an away game if it's in a neutral venue, surely if Dublin play a "home" game in a neutral venue it's not a home game?

Home game is played within county bounds - does not matter what stadium.

Away game played in the opponents county.

Neutral game played outside of both participating counties county bounds.

ArielAtom wrote: »

If you count the hurlers it’s a few. But the footballers have played the majority at neutral venues. So I guess you are correct it adds to their achievements.

When all your home league games have all been played In Croke Park since 2011 its clear its your home ground

Festive Life wrote: »

When all your home league games have all been played In Croke Park since 2011 its clear its your home ground

No, facts are that Parnell Park is Dublin GAAs home.

Festive Life wrote: »

When all your home league games have all been played In Croke Park since 2011 its clear its your home ground

I was thinking it would be like Kerry football supporters saying that their home ground is in Tralee. Championship games played in Killarney are neutral games. Tipperary never play a home game in Thurles. Monaghan play at a neutral venue in Clones.....................................

Quick question, if ballymun play kilmacud in the Dublin championship in Parnell park who is the home team?

Tombo2001 wrote: »

As mentioned, there are 300 games development officers of which 54 are in Dublin. Thats 18% in Dublin.

The population of all Ireland is 6.8mn, of which county Dublin is 1.23mn, or 18%.

Cant get much fairer than that.

This post sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole over the last week or so because I distinctly recalled hearing a reference recently that Dublin had 76 coaching staff. I think it was on radio or on one of the GAA podcasts but I couldn't track it down. I did manage to find the article in the paper from 2018 where the Dublin GAA chairman had said that Dublin had 70 coaches. The fact that there was 70 coaches 3 years ago leads me to believe that the figure of 76 is good odds to be fairly accurate.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-express-concern-at-cut-in-funding-for-coaching-36558793.html

I was also curious to see whether the 300 games development officers figure was accurate because this seemed a bit higher than what I would have guessed.

This page linked below say " the Association employs over 300 Games Development Personnel nationwide" and based on what I've found that looks to be a bit of an over-estimate, especially when looking at the number of actual coaches who work with a ball or a hurl in a field.

Games Development Personnel are deployed at National, Provincial and County level. Since 2009 Games Development Managers (GDMs) have been deployed in all Counties. Each County has introduced a variable structure of Games Development Administrators (GDA) and Games Promotion Officers (GPO), depending on the county’s requirements.

Basically there are 32 GDMs (one in every county) and then GDAs and GPOs under the GDMs who work at the coaching coal-face [going into schools/going into clubs/arranging Cul Camp/arrranging coaching courses/arranging blitzes/doing bits with development squads] The GDM role from what I could figure is pretty much an office based adminstration role and doesn't go any actual coaching but is the boss of all the GDAs/GPOs in a county. The GDA title and the GPO title is pretty much interchangeable as some counties seem to call them one thing and some the other and some have both, but in all of them it's pretty much all about coaching at the coal-face.

https://www.gaa.ie/my-gaa/administrators/games-development-personnel

Things are also complicated a bit by the fact that there are some provincial coaching roles and this seems to vary a bit between the 4 provinces. For Munster there was 2 Provincial Games Managers (one for football and one for hurling) Connacht seem to have one Provincial Games Manager [Cathal Cregg] For Leinster there seems to be 2 Provincial Games Managers (north and south)
However Ulster GAA seem to have 25 coaches employed at provincial level. Some of these seem to be involved in the administration side of things, but most of these 25 seem to be on the ground coaches, that are basically seconded to work with/for various county boards. It looks like some of these 25 are funded from a Stormont scheme and are more school based as opposed to club based but I'd say a good 20 of these are coaching youngsters. There's also some number of coaches involved in Gaelfast but from what I saw these extra coaches are employed by Antrim GAA [I did find a thing that said before Gaelfast there was 3 coaches for the entire county, so I think the figure of 10 makes sense] Basically at provincial level, Ulster seem to be the only province that have employees at provincial level who actually coach with the others being more administrators.

At a county level I started off by looking at the Kerry GAA website and it matched what I kinda knew already - 1 Games Manager and 8 GDAs. In my ignorance at this stage I thought it would be a case of simply going into each counties website, throwing the number of GPOs/GDAs into a spreadsheet and adding them up to see what the numbers looked like nationwide. Poor fool me.

I did find the number for some counties this way, for some I googled "county name GPO" or "county name GDA" or "county name coach" Some I found in the annual reports for counties. [I should probably have taken note of the euro amounts spent on coacing in the finanical reports for the various counties but I only thought of this midway through] For some counties I couldn't find anything. For others the up-to-dateness of the numbers seemed a bit questionable.

The following is my best estimate list of the number of actual coaches [it doesn't include the Games Development Managers] There are a number of caveats about this. A fair chunk of the information was from county websites and I'm not sure how up-to-date these are. For for the counties where I couldn't find anything if anyone has an idea let me know. I'll admit my searching wasn't the most thorough For some of the Ulster counties, I'm not sure whether the figures I found for the individual counties included the coaches thay are actually employed by the Ulster Council. If I had to guess I would say that the individual counties were including the coaches paid for by the Ulster Council in their totals. There is every possibility that these numbers aren't exact/up-to-date/are wrong. However I do think [even with 10 counties missing] they do give a good overall general sense of the number of coaches working in pitches around the country. I think there are possibly 300 games development personnel but about 40 of these would be administrators [county GDMs and provincial GDMs] so I would say a mimium of 260 coaches nationwide and probably a maximum of 300, with the most likely figure being around the 280 mark.

Dublin 76
Meath 21
Kildare 16
Wexford 11
Antrim 10
Galway 9
Tyrone 9
Donegal 8
Louth 8
Kerry 7
Cork 7
Cavan 7
Mayo 6
Wicklow 6
Monaghan 5
Tipperary 4
Roscommon 4
Longford 4
Waterford 3
Sligo 3
Offaly 3
Laois 3
Limerick ?
Clare ?
Leitrim ?
Derry ?
Down ?
Fermanagh ?
Armagh ?
Carlow ?
Kilkenny ?
Westmeath ?

Boom__Boom wrote: »

This post sent me down a bit of a rabbit hole over the last week or so because I distinctly recalled hearing a reference recently that Dublin had 76 coaching staff. I think it was on radio or on one of the GAA podcasts but I couldn't track it down. I did manage to find the article in the paper from 2018 where the Dublin GAA chairman had said that Dublin had 70 coaches. The fact that there was 70 coaches 3 years ago leads me to believe that the figure of 76 is good odds to be fairly accurate.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/dublin-express-concern-at-cut-in-funding-for-coaching-36558793.html

I was also curious to see whether the 300 games development officers figure was accurate because this seemed a bit higher than what I would have guessed.

This page linked below say " the Association employs over 300 Games Development Personnel nationwide" and based on what I've found that looks to be a bit of an over-estimate, especially when looking at the number of actual coaches who work with a ball or a hurl in a field.



Basically there are 32 GDMs (one in every county) and then GDAs and GPOs under the GDMs who work at the coaching coal-face [going into schools/going into clubs/arranging Cul Camp/arrranging coaching courses/arranging blitzes/doing bits with development squads] The GDM role from what I could figure is pretty much an office based adminstration role and doesn't go any actual coaching but is the boss of all the GDAs/GPOs in a county. The GDA title and the GPO title is pretty much interchangeable as some counties seem to call them one thing and some the other and some have both, but in all of them it's pretty much all about coaching at the coal-face.

https://www.gaa.ie/my-gaa/administrators/games-development-personnel

Things are also complicated a bit by the fact that there are some provincial coaching roles and this seems to vary a bit between the 4 provinces. For Munster there was 2 Provincial Games Managers (one for football and one for hurling) Connacht seem to have one Provincial Games Manager [Cathal Cregg] For Leinster there seems to be 2 Provincial Games Managers (north and south)
However Ulster GAA seem to have 25 coaches employed at provincial level. Some of these seem to be involved in the administration side of things, but most of these 25 seem to be on the ground coaches, that are basically seconded to work with/for various county boards. It looks like some of these 25 are funded from a Stormont scheme and are more school based as opposed to club based but I'd say a good 20 of these are coaching youngsters. There's also some number of coaches involved in Gaelfast but from what I saw these extra coaches are employed by Antrim GAA [I did find a thing that said before Gaelfast there was 3 coaches for the entire county, so I think the figure of 10 makes sense] Basically at provincial level, Ulster seem to be the only province that have employees at provincial level who actually coach with the others being more administrators.

At a county level I started off by looking at the Kerry GAA website and it matched what I kinda knew already - 1 Games Manager and 8 GDAs. In my ignorance at this stage I thought it would be a case of simply going into each counties website, throwing the number of GPOs/GDAs into a spreadsheet and adding them up to see what the numbers looked like nationwide. Poor fool me.

I did find the number for some counties this way, for some I googled "county name GPO" or "county name GDA" or "county name coach" Some I found in the annual reports for counties. [I should probably have taken note of the euro amounts spent on coacing in the finanical reports for the various counties but I only thought of this midway through] For some counties I couldn't find anything. For others the up-to-dateness of the numbers seemed a bit questionable.

The following is my best estimate list of the number of actual coaches [it doesn't include the Games Development Managers] There are a number of caveats about this. A fair chunk of the information was from county websites and I'm not sure how up-to-date these are. For for the counties where I couldn't find anything if anyone has an idea let me know. I'll admit my searching wasn't the most thorough For some of the Ulster counties, I'm not sure whether the figures I found for the individual counties included the coaches thay are actually employed by the Ulster Council. If I had to guess I would say that the individual counties were including the coaches paid for by the Ulster Council in their totals. There is every possibility that these numbers aren't exact/up-to-date/are wrong. However I do think [even with 10 counties missing] they do give a good overall general sense of the number of coaches working in pitches around the country. I think there are possibly 300 games development personnel but about 40 of these would be administrators [county GDMs and provincial GDMs] so I would say a mimium of 260 coaches nationwide and probably a maximum of 300, with the most likely figure being around the 280 mark.

Dublin 76
Meath 21
Kildare 16
Wexford 11
Antrim 10
Galway 9
Tyrone 9
Donegal 8
Louth 8
Kerry 7
Cork 7
Cavan 7
Mayo 6
Wicklow 6
Monaghan 5
Tipperary 4
Roscommon 4
Longford 4
Waterford 3
Sligo 3
Offaly 3
Laois 3
Limerick ?
Clare ?
Leitrim ?
Derry ?
Down ?
Fermanagh ?
Armagh ?
Carlow ?
Kilkenny ?
Westmeath ?

You could have saved yourself some heartache if you’d started with the games development report to sports ireland that I quoted previously. It’s for 2015 so a little dated but it’s fair to say that all indicators are that any funding gap has narrowed since. For example the figure given for rest of Leinster is now 118 so a substantial increase in that spend.

https://learning.gaa.ie/sites/default/files/GDC_1.8_Appendix11_Games Development Annual Report 2015.pdf

This represents what the GAA spend on games development resources and reported by the GAA for the Irish sports council so it should be a pretty accurate representation and equally should exclude any resources funded from elsewhere. Unfortunately I can’t find a later report for this. The breakdown is as follows:

National 9
Dublin. 61
Leinster. 74
Munster. 34
Ulster. 67
Connacht. 86

This of course makes nonsense of the claim that the GAA funded a coach for almost every club in dublin as one poster has stated. County assignments are in there too. There are caveats, for example the Munster figure dropped by 10 from the previous year. It seems unlikely that the GAA dropped them off a cliff so I assume there’s some shuffling going on- given all the personell are named perhaps someone closer to Munster GAA can clarify. In addition the report puts a bit of a best face on things: Connachts very high figure doesn’t reflect the number of part time coaches for that province. Equally dublins figure doesn’t reflect that the clubs themselves are funding a large chunk of the spend, so the cost to the GAA is lower. The job titles are also a little inconsistent.

Within that dublin have 5-7 personell who are assigned at a regional level, which I understand to be the equivalent of the provincial level managers for the others (though I’m not convinced the provincial personell are purely administrative tbh). The total above is 331 I think and excluding the provincial personell etc that drops by up to 59 or so depending on what you think a person is doing in a role.

Enquiring wrote: »

I nearly fell off my chair laughing at this. Did you actually look at the list? It basically backs up everything you've been told but you have decided to make a very peculiar interpretation of what you read.

Boom_Boom just informed you that the coaches are called Games Promotion officer's or Games development administrators. Let's just take a few examples. Donegal have 3 full time coaches, Antrim have 3, Meath have 6, Kildare have 4, Kerry have 5, Cork have 6, Galway have 2 full time, same with Mayo.

You've been repeatedly told that every county had less than 6. You looked at a list telling you that every county had less than 6. Did you not believe what you were reading? You've also been told about administrative staff and the difference between them and coaches. And do you know what a third level coach is? You somehow managed to add 7 Dublin based third level coaches onto the rest of Leinster list.

Before we move onto the list for Dublin, I just want to see if you now understand what you read or is there any other confusion?

Ah it’s the poster who says the GAA funded a coach for almost every club in dublin

Not quite what that shows is it?

How many clubs in dublin?

Enquiring wrote: »

I take it from this post that you understand that your post backs up that every county had very few coaches, between 1 and 6 while Dublin had far more?

I'll be moving onto the Dublin list, don't worry.

Per capita what’s the breakdown? How many coaches per capita for Leinster compared to dublin? How does that look when we up the Leinster number to the current 118?

What’s the breakdown when you allocate the percentage funded by the clubs themselves? We’re these the numbers you were using when you we’re going on about a coach for every club?