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Yay!!!! Ireland wins appeal at Europe's General Court!!

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Comments

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    #122
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    seamus wrote: »
    Citizens being "tapped out" is an overplayed card from the recession.

    The fact is that citizens have been paying low effective tax rates in Ireland, for a country of our size and population. Effective tax take is typically around the 23% mark, which is about a third lower than the EU average. And much lower than a comparable country - Denmark.

    Even if we doubled our corporate take rate, it would only bring in about €10bn extra. That's assuming companies stayed with us. Which they wouldn't.

    Successive governments have been warned about our reliance on corporate tax as an income source.

    The fact is that we need to simplify and increase our personal taxation rates in order to stabilise our finances and ensure we have the infrastructure to stay competitive.

    how many politicians would be (re)elected with the promise of increased taxes?

    i didnt mention increasing corporate rates immediate, and not alone, that would be a dreadful idea, particularly right now


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    #123
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    murpho999 wrote: »
    How is it two fingers to the EU when an EU court/body has just found the charges were incorrect.

    Can you not see that Ireland has been cleared of any wrong doing?

    Yes. However 90% or Irish government 'wrongdoing' was legal.
    We've a reputation as being a haven for corporate money.
    Maybe we might charge them the going rate of the taxation on the average worker?
    These are the areas where we should be raising taxes. Why are schools, colleges and public services cut before we even look at such things? When the next downturn bites the like of Apple's rates won't be even sniffed at.
    The bigger economic picture is no use to someone needing state aid to pay rent.


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    #124
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    In terms of tax, The issue is our spending and not our income. We need to cut back. Our Social welfare, the mismanagement of HSE, our politician are highly paid, the bottomless pit that is rte etc etc

    It's really not, the tax burden on individuals is low here compared to other EU OECD countries.

    http://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-ireland.pdf

    519979.PNG


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    #125
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    Given that other than during the financial crisis our books have been fairly balanced, I would suggest we aren’t over spending.

    We’re comparing ourselves with Nordic and other similar countries quite a lot though and wondering why we don’t have the same level of public services. The answer is we aren’t willing to pay for them.


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    #126
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    Hodors Appletart wrote: »
    we were never going to keep it anyway, if Ireland/Apple had have lost the money would have had to go to other EU Countries too.

    The level of ignorance around all of this is staggering.

    the "make apple pay for it" brigade will need another cause now

    It will be “make everyone earning a grand a year more than me pay for it”. Which is why I will never vote for the free other people’s money brigade.


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    #127
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    Given that other than during the financial crisis our books have been fairly balanced, I would suggest we aren’t over spending.

    We’re comparing ourselves with Nordic and other similar countries quite a lot though and wondering why we don’t have the same level of public services. The answer is we aren’t willing to pay for them.

    we really need to become big boys and girls with all this book balancing nonsense , or maybe the more plutocratic elements in our societies arent will to pay for it, and would rather keep indulging in rent seeking behavior!


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    #128
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    YellowBucket wrote: »
    Given that other than during the financial crisis our books have been fairly balanced, I would suggest we aren’t over spending.

    We’re comparing ourselves with Nordic and other similar countries quite a lot though and wondering why we don’t have the same level of public services. The answer is we aren’t willing to pay for them.

    We are far too use to receiving cronyism and poorly managed oversight for our tax monies. You would be mad to think giving FF/FG more money would improve services.
    You are correct though and I believe people would be willing to pay more for better services, if we could trust that would be the result.


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    #129
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Bowie wrote: »
    Yes. However 90% or Irish government 'wrongdoing' was legal.
    We've a reputation as being a haven for corporate money.
    Maybe we might charge them the going rate of the taxation on the average worker?
    These are the areas where we should be raising taxes. Why are schools, colleges and public services cut before we even look at such things? When the next downturn bites the like of Apple's rates won't be even sniffed at.
    The bigger economic picture is no use to someone needing state aid to pay rent.


    Stay at school/college and get a job in a MNC. Sorted


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    #130
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Stay at school/college and get a job in a MNC. Sorted

    and potentially have a miserable existence, they can be highly toxic working environments


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    #131
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    we done this after the last recession, it hasnt worked out well, policies such as austerity are known to cause far more damage than solve


    What austerity?


    We still have millions owed to county councils because tenants dont pay. We have people breaking themselves working to pay off mortgage because the few don't. We have people that fire out kids like candy because its more money into their pockets


    We resolved nothing since the last crash. The decent people in Ireland, the middle class took a massive hit and that was hit. Everyone else just went around spouting about the rick should pay more which was just everyone else but them.



    We brought in a car tax systen which took a 700-1800 euro car suddenly down to 300 euro yet people complain.



    The only decent thing we did invest in, IRish Water, is now been pulled apart and will end up a mess like everything else. Our water quality is going in one direction.



    Now the great answers we have some political powers is take more money from the worker and hand more money to the unemployed??


    Many many threads I have said the same
    1. You want a christmas bonus, then get a job. The people on unemployment that can work should not receive
    2. You want anything over 3 children, then pay from your own pocket
    3. At source take rent. No more paying to people so they dont pay rent


    Put those 3 in place. Then lets see what else we can hit


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    #132
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    and potentially have a miserable existence, they can be highly toxic working environments


    How exactly?


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    #133
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    What austerity?


    We still have millions owed to county councils because tenants dont pay. We have people breaking themselves working to pay off mortgage because the few don't. We have people that fire out kids like candy because its more money into their pockets


    We resolved nothing since the last crash. The decent people in Ireland, the middle class took a massive hit and that was hit. Everyone else just went around spouting about the rick should pay more which was just everyone else but them.



    We brought in a car tax systen which took a 700-1800 euro car suddenly down to 300 euro yet people complain.



    The only decent thing we did invest in, IRish Water, is now been pulled apart and will end up a mess like everything else. Our water quality is going in one direction.



    Now the great answers we have some political powers is take more money from the worker and hand more money to the unemployed??


    Many many threads I have said the same
    1. You want a christmas bonus, then get a job. The people on unemployment that can work should not receive
    2. You want anything over 3 children, then pay from your own pocket
    3. At source take rent. No more paying to people so they dont pay rent


    Put those 3 in place. Then lets see what else we can hit

    ...and why are house prices so high, its hardly due to the ability of financial institutions to effectively creating the money in the first place, which in turns pushes up those house prices by increasing the availability of credit, otherwise known as money!


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    #134
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    How exactly?

    trust me, they seriously can be dreadful working environments, sole destroying


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    #135
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Currently my employer spends €1,000 a year per employee subsidising private health insurance. I'd much rather every employer paid an employer USC contribution and that private health insurance was not necessary.


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    #136
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭christy c


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i didnt mention increasing corporate rates immediate, and not alone, that would be a dreadful idea, particularly right now

    So what exactly are you proposing? Please spell it out as I'm not sure you plan to achieve what you want.


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    #137
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    christy c wrote: »
    So what exactly are you proposing? Please spell it out as I'm not sure you plan to achieve what you want.

    i did, its back the way, sorry im too busy right now


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    #138
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭christy c


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    i did, its back the way, sorry im too busy right now

    I didn't see it. Take your time, reply when you have time.


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    #139
    stoneill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,610 ✭✭✭stoneill


    The other side of this is that Apple have gotten away with a 13 billion tax fraud.


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    #140
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    stoneill wrote: »
    The other side of this is that Apple have gotten away with a 13 billion tax fraud.

    The only fraud would be selling it like a victory for Ireland.


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    #141
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭christy c


    stoneill wrote: »
    The other side of this is that Apple have gotten away with a 13 billion tax fraud.

    No they haven't.


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    #142
    The Rooster
    Registered Users Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭The Rooster


    stoneill wrote: »
    The other side of this is that Apple have gotten away with a 13 billion tax fraud.
    That would be legitimate opinion to hold if you were completely ignorant of all the facts alright.


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    #143
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,948 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    liamog wrote: »
    It's really not, the tax burden on individuals is low here compared to other EU OECD countries.

    http://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-ireland.pdf

    519979.PNG

    This is because the bottom 40% of workers pay little to no tax.
    By all means we should tax them more... says no politician ever. ;)


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    #144
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭christy c


    Bowie wrote: »
    The only fraud would be selling it like a victory for Ireland.

    It's fantastic for Ireland. It was alleged that Ireland had given illegal state aid, the ruling today debunks that.


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    #145
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,391 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Bowie wrote: »
    Yes. However 90% or Irish government 'wrongdoing' was legal.
    We've a reputation as being a haven for corporate money.
    Maybe we might charge them the going rate of the taxation on the average worker?
    These are the areas where we should be raising taxes. Why are schools, colleges and public services cut before we even look at such things? When the next downturn bites the like of Apple's rates won't be even sniffed at.
    The bigger economic picture is no use to someone needing state aid to pay rent.

    So what if we have a reputation. every other country does it. We're all competing.

    Do you realise that if we had unattractive corporarate tax rates then the companies wouldn't be here at all employing thouands of people. What state would the economy be in then?

    They employ thousands, pay taxes here, pay lots of VAT too, gernerate lots of economic activity that wasn't there before and we should be happy to have them here.

    Tax that you fear we're missing out on would be offset by far more losses if we were to tax them more.


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    #146
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,391 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    stoneill wrote: »
    The other side of this is that Apple have gotten away with a 13 billion tax fraud.

    Or that the allegations were false and incorrect and EC has failed to prove that in an EU court?


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    #147
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,948 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    liamog wrote: »
    Currently my employer spends €1,000 a year per employee subsidising private health insurance. I'd much rather every employer paid an employer USC contribution and that private health insurance was not necessary.

    Your employer is already pay a PRSI contribution.

    And in an ideal world, you may be right, but the problem with the Irish public sector is generally they are woefully inefficient, rife with bureaucracy, slow at change and infested with outdated and cracked work practices that cost us an arm and a leg. Just look at the monster that is the HSE.

    People like private health insurance because they generally get to skip over the bureaucratic mess of the public health service.


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    #148
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    stoneill wrote: »
    The other side of this is that Apple have gotten away with a 13 billion tax fraud.


    No they havent, do you not think the legal people getting paid millions would be able to prove it if they had??


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    #149
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    liamog wrote: »
    Currently my employer spends €1,000 a year per employee subsidising private health insurance. I'd much rather every employer paid an employer USC contribution and that private health insurance was not necessary.


    Normally this is a company policy which is implemented in other countries and they give to all staff. If a MNC of course, if irish then local decision


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    #150
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    markodaly wrote: »
    Your employer is already pay a PRSI contribution.

    And in an ideal world, you may be right, but the problem with the Irish public sector is generally they are woefully inefficient, rife with bureaucracy, slow at change and infested with outdated and cracked work practices that cost us an arm and a leg. Just look at the monster that is the HSE.

    People like private health insurance because they generally get to skip over the bureaucratic mess of the public health service.

    by any chance has the bureaucratic mess come from the introduction of the insurance sector into our health care sector, a known outcome of such activities, the insurance sector being a critical part of the fire sectors(finance, insurance and real estate), known to be a fundamental part of global rent seekers?


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    #151
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,193 ✭✭✭christy c


    Pearse and his cohorts in full soundbite mode:

    https://www.thejournal.ie/apple-ruling-5150635-Jul2020/

    He must be feeling more stupid than usual after his party saying we should have spent this money only a short time ago.


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