US College Bribery Scandal

JP Liz V1 · 13-03-2019 11:49pm #1

Actresses Lori Loughlin, Felicity Huffman and many others charged (no not a plot from Desperate Housewives), so working hard to get in to college is a no no when you are rich

LessOutragePlz · 13-03-2019 11:53pm

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Actresses Lori Loughlin, Felicity Huffman and many others charged (no not a plot from Desperate Housewives), so working hard to get in to college is a no no when you are rich

Show me that it happens over here then I'll give a ****

HeidiHeidi · 13-03-2019 11:54pm

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Show me that it happens over here then I'll give a ****

Apt username!

Dravokivich · 13-03-2019 11:58pm

What are you on about? Is this another #metoo thing?

JP Liz V1 · 14-03-2019 12:29am

Dravokivich wrote: »

What are you on about? Is this another #metoo thing?

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/felicity-huffman-lori-loughlin-amign-dozens-charged-college-entrance-exam-scandal-1194023

metaoblivia · 14-03-2019 4:12am

Lori Loughlin spent $500k to get her kids into USC - aside from whatever the actual tuition/boarding costs. If you're going to drop half a million, at least aim a little higher. Stanford, UC Berkeley, Yale?

But honestly, there are already perfectly legal ways for rich people to game the system. What's wrong getting your mediocre kid in the old fashioned way by making a donation/funding a new library? But they've got to go crime it up and pay someone to pretend their kid might make the crew team. Which is barely even a D1 sport. And now, everyone knows their kids are stupid/lazy/their degrees are worthless, so they've spent all that money when the kid could have just quietly gone to a community/state school and no one would have been the wiser.

Canis Lupus · 14-03-2019 4:33am

Rich people doing rich people things..... colour me shocked.

pleas advice · 14-03-2019 4:59am

i thought this was just the way it worked over there, I'm actually surprised that thats not meant to happen...

BeerWolf · 14-03-2019 5:19am

Nothing new about this... still a massive failure of being parents though.

Twenty Grand · 14-03-2019 5:34am

pleas advice wrote: »

i thought this was just the way it worked over there, I'm actually surprised that thats not meant to happen...

I'm actually shocked that you can't just buy a place in college in the US and you need to go to the trouble of paying someone to sit entrance exams for you.

Surely if you can cough up a few hundred k they can put an extra chair in the lecture hall.

Canis Lupus · 14-03-2019 7:01am

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I'm actually shocked that you can't just buy a place in college in the US and you need to go to the trouble of paying someone to sit entrance exams for you.

Surely if you can cough up a few hundred k they can put an extra chair in the lecture hall.

I honestly thought that's how it worked as well.

mariaalice · 14-03-2019 9:15am

metaoblivia wrote: »

Lori Loughlin spent $500k to get her kids into USC - aside from whatever the actual tuition/boarding costs. If you're going to drop half a million, at least aim a little higher. Stanford, UC Berkeley, Yale?

But honestly, there are already perfectly legal ways for rich people to game the system. What's wrong getting your mediocre kid in the old fashioned way by making a donation/funding a new library? But they've got to go crime it up and pay someone to pretend their kid might make the crew team. Which is barely even a D1 sport. And now, everyone knows their kids are stupid/lazy/their degrees are worthless, so they've spent all that money when the kid could have just quietly gone to a community/state school and no one would have been the wiser.

The whole thing sound nuts is college ranking the be all and end all in the US?

razorblunt · 14-03-2019 9:17am

Yale could do with an International Airport.

King of Kings · 14-03-2019 9:18am

I dont know what shocks me more the fact people are shocked at this or that it was illegal at all.

I just assumed it was the way of the world.

super_furry · 14-03-2019 9:19am

pleas advice wrote: »

i thought this was just the way it worked over there, I'm actually surprised that thats not meant to happen...

Honestly me too. Got a stupid kid? Buy us a new library and you're in.

Guy:Incognito · 14-03-2019 9:20am

They should have just sent them here. If youre coming here from abroad to go to college you can just buy a place cant you ?

14-03-2019 9:24am

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Show me that it happens over here then I'll give a ****

We call them grinds' schools or fee-charging schools in Ireland. Know the system well, and use it well, and you give your child all sorts of advantages to progress within that system.

Yes, but those uncouth New Worlders...

professore · 14-03-2019 9:40am

Know a guy working as a teacher in a US private girls high school. He failed one student who richly deserved it and was contacted the next day by the principal telling him either pass her or he had no job and a bad reference. He passed her.

14-03-2019 9:54am

metaoblivia wrote: »

Lori Loughlin spent $500k to get her kids into USC - aside from whatever the actual tuition/boarding costs. If you're going to drop half a million, at least aim a little higher. Stanford, UC Berkeley, Yale?

But honestly, there are already perfectly legal ways for rich people to game the system. What's wrong getting your mediocre kid in the old fashioned way by making a donation/funding a new library? But they've got to go crime it up and pay someone to pretend their kid might make the crew team. Which is barely even a D1 sport. And now, everyone knows their kids are stupid/lazy/their degrees are worthless, so they've spent all that money when the kid could have just quietly gone to a community/state school and no one would have been the wiser.

All I can think is how dumb these kids have got to be. Between the best school and private tutoring they couldn't make it on their own? That's before the traditional, as you pointed out, build a library wing, international airport, whatever.

kneemos · 14-03-2019 10:09am

What's the deal with going to the posh college? Image? Or rubbing shoulders with the great and good?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 14-03-2019 10:11am

pleas advice wrote: »

i thought this was just the way it worked over there, I'm actually surprised that thats not meant to happen...

It does happen legally - donations, this was illegal.

14-03-2019 10:39am

The PDF of the Indictment is here if someone wants the full details on the whole Felony Case:

https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/656-college-admissions-and-testing/a01f87291e255a5f7c80/optimized/full.pdf#page=1

The people being charged and for what is here:

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ma/investigations-college-admissions-and-testing-bribery-scheme

The bribes to fake results, sporting records and so on seem to average around 4-600 K. Though one parent seems to have gotten milked for about 6million. Evidence seems to include Phone Records from both named TV Actors.

The ringleaders of the whole thing however face further charges than the parents themselves. Including obstruction of justice, racketeering, and conspiracy to money launder.

The NYTimes claim that "It was the Justice Department’s largest ever education prosecution, a sprawling investigation that involved 200 agents nationwide and resulted in the arrests of 50 people in six states."

Ficheall · 14-03-2019 11:02am

professore wrote: »

Know a guy working as a teacher in a US private girls high school. He failed one student who richly deserved it and was contacted the next day by the principal telling him either pass her or he had no job and a bad reference. He passed her.

People like to slag off dumb Americans, but lecturers in unis here are regularly instructed to engage in veritable marking gymnastics to pass students who deserve to fail. Not due to a call from rich daddy, but just standard procedure because it looks better for the uni to pass people.

suicide_circus · 14-03-2019 11:08am

this is a country where it is legal for congressmen to ask for money from lobby groups to vote a certain way on legislation.

ohnonotgmail · 14-03-2019 11:20am

King of Kings wrote: »

I dont know what shocks me more the fact people are shocked at this or that it was illegal at all.

I just assumed it was the way of the world.

you thought it was legal to get somebody else to sit an exam for you?

AlanG · 14-03-2019 11:27am

Ficheall wrote: »

People like to slag off dumb Americans, but lecturers in unis here are regularly instructed to engage in veritable marking gymnastics to pass students who deserve to fail. Not due to a call from rich daddy, but just standard procedure because it looks better for the uni to pass people.

Top universities in Ireland are so reliant on foreign fee paying students that they will do almost anything to pass them and will find a technicality if one is caught cheating. There is no point in spending millions marketing a college in the middle and far east only to get a reputation for being strict. A person spending tens of thousands to come and study in Europe is not going to risk failing in Trinity if they can go elsewhere in Europe and have an easier time. This practice is rampant as 3rd level is big business. Approximately 50% of TCDs income is from the private sector.

JP Liz V1 · 14-03-2019 2:51pm

metaoblivia wrote: »

Lori Loughlin spent $500k to get her kids into USC - aside from whatever the actual tuition/boarding costs. If you're going to drop half a million, at least aim a little higher. Stanford, UC Berkeley, Yale?

But honestly, there are already perfectly legal ways for rich people to game the system. What's wrong getting your mediocre kid in the old fashioned way by making a donation/funding a new library? But they've got to go crime it up and pay someone to pretend their kid might make the crew team. Which is barely even a D1 sport. And now, everyone knows their kids are stupid/lazy/their degrees are worthless, so they've spent all that money when the kid could have just quietly gone to a community/state school and no one would have been the wiser.

I think Lori's kid prefers spending time on Youtube and Instagram

How does Lori make her money, is Fuller House a big pay gig?

Grayson · 14-03-2019 2:57pm

super_furry wrote: »

Honestly me too. Got a stupid kid? Buy us a new library and you're in.

Or the whole alumni entry. Your parents went here, you get in.

Autecher · 14-03-2019 3:04pm

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I think Lori's kid prefers spending time on Youtube and Instagram

How does Lori make her money, is Fuller House a big pay gig?

Her hubbie is worth a cool $80,000,000. He is a fashion designer for Target.

Sugar Free · 14-03-2019 3:04pm

There are degrees of wealth and these people, while wealthy by most people's standards, aren't necessarily wealthy enough to donate an amount of money equivalent to a new library, i.e. millions. Or perhaps their estimated net worth while very high, is in no way liquid. Going by an above poster, the average amount paid was 400-600k.

So they were either too stingy to do it the more legitimate, donations way (unlikely) or they simply didn't have the cash required (more likely) and went for a more affordable, albeit illegal, option.

Realt Dearg Sec · 14-03-2019 3:18pm

I'm teaching in an American university and I think the reason so many people on here are mainly only shocked that it's illegal to do what these people do, is because the legal paths to an elite university for the rich and powerful are barely distinguishable from what these people did.

When Jared Kushner was in high school he was described as, at best, an average student. The year before he went to college his father donated millions to Harvard, legally, and wouldn't you know it, the boy genius made it in!

But even beyond that, the college admissions system is farcical over here. Students grades matter a lot, but they also factor in extra curricular activities, your application essay, etc etc. What becomes clear at every stage is that rich people can get a leg up on every aspect of this. Grinds to prep for the SAT, pay for expensive activities like lacrosse etc.

Athletics scholarships, outside of football and basketball, are also basically just a way to give rich white folks a leg up in the applications process. Soccer, tennis, lacrosse, softball, you name it there's places in college for playing it, and they are played overwhelmingly by rich white folks. Harvard grades out students on a six point scale. If you have a 4 on that scale, your odds of getting in are 0.074%. If you have a 4 on that scale and are going to play a sport with them, it increases to 33%. Nobody in their right mind is actually watching these sports, so it's just affirmative action for rich people.

Honestly even though in Ireland our rich little boys and girls can get a leg up by going to fee paying schools and stuff, I still miss the CAO system to be honest.

And that's setting aside the fact that college is outrageously expensive anyway, far beyond the reach of most non rich people either way. When I worked at Notre Dame, students were paying nearly 50 grand a YEAR to be there, just for undergraduate.

I now work at a very much non-elite, university in Texas where the admission rate is very high (ie non-selective) and the fees are "low" (under ten grand a year counts as low), and I work with students from some really tough backgrounds, people with parents in jail, brought up in drug-dens, I work with single mothers and military veterans, children of illegal immigrants. The struggles some of my students have been through to get where they are, and the work they put in when they're in my classes...when I read about these people bribing coaches and stuff it makes me want to puke, but to be honest the real scandal is the amount of stuff that's actually legal in this system.

(As an aside a few people mentioned that failing students are often let slide or get a bump on their grade. I've never encountered this in any institution, elite or not. With athletes, I have more often found that they lay on lots of extra tuition for them to keep their grades up (another leg up for the lads). I had football players who thought they were allowed do what they wanted to, but they were not)

US College Bribery Scandal

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