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Should Voting be mandatory?

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  • Options
    #62
    Inquitus
    Registered Users Posts: 13,729 ✭✭✭✭Inquitus


    Brian201888 wrote: »
    I don't know why you would want people who don't care enough to vote deciding how the country is run, it sounds like a recipe for helping the rise of populism

    I do agree with you, a big drive to make voting mandatory would have a massive impact on the outcomes, you can fairly well correlate that those who cannot be arsed to vote would likely be those who would fall under populist sway in an election, it could well be a double edged sword....


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    #63
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Brian201888 wrote: »
    I don't know why you would want people who don't care enough to vote deciding how the country is run, it sounds like a recipe for helping the rise of populism




    I find that to be a weak argument. The onus would be on all politicians to compete for those votes.


    Populism runs riot more so when there is apathy and lack of engagement. Look at the Brexit referendum. The populists were able to drum up their support (and still are). There are plenty of people in the middle of each debate and these are probably the ones less motivated to engage. If they come into the equations, they drag the critical mass back from the extremes


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    #64
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Forcing people to vote doesn't sound very democratic.

    Especially if they know all the candidates to be lying self serving scum


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    #65
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Especially if the know all the candidates to be lying self serving scum




    Well if they bring in mandatory voting, you can run yourself. And as (I'm assuming) a non-lying, non-self serving non-scumbag, you can hoover up all those discerning votes. You'll have to top any poll.



    Profit for you!


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    #66
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Tell me how wrote: »
    It is, but the argument is that many are not choosing to vote for any other reason than they couldn't be bothered to vote.

    This is one of the greatest myths . . . .yes some people can't be bothered to vote, but a lot of them don't trust any of the candidates or parties and they don't feel represented by any of them


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    #67
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Nobelium wrote: »
    This is one of the greatest myths . . . .yes some people can't be bothered to vote, but a lot of them don't trust any of the candidates or parties and they don't feel represented by any of them




    To be honest, I'd have more time for the people who just couldn't be arsed to make the effort to delay going to the pub on a Friday night in order to go to the poling station than anyone who tries to make that kind of tired excuse.


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    #68
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    To be honest, I'd have more time for the people who just couldn't be arsed to make the effort to delay going to the pub on a Friday night in order to go to the poling station than anyone who tries to make that kind of tired excuse.

    With an ability to spin bullshyte like that, have you ever thought of being a dishonest politician yourself ?


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    #69
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Well if they bring in mandatory voting, you can run yourself. And as (I'm assuming) a non-lying, non-self serving non-scumbag, you can hoover up all those discerning votes. You'll have to top any poll.

    Profit for you!

    Honest people don't go into Irish politics for good reason.


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    #70
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Nobelium wrote: »
    With an ability to spin bullshyte like that, have you ever thought of being a dishonest politician yourself ?




    Corrupt elite.

    Fake news.
    blah-de-blah


    People who won't vote and still moan about politicians are like fat people who sit on their arses on the couch all day stuffing their faces and making excuses and moaning about their metabolism etc. while refusing to get off their arses to even go for a walk.


    If you want to make a change, you have everything you need to do it. But if you're not arsed to do a simple thing, then quit moaning. That's all


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    #71
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Corrupt elite.

    Fake news.
    blah-de-blah


    People who won't vote and still moan about politicians are like fat people who sit on their arses on the couch all day stuffing their faces and making excuses and moaning about their metabolism etc. while refusing to get off their arses to even go for a walk.

    Apologies. We can't all have your lack of morality.


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    #72
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Apologies for not having your lack of morality.




    Don't worry about it.


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    #73
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Donald Trump wrote:
    Be against the idea of mandatory voting all you like but if your reasoning against it is that countries that have it are not 100% perfect then that is kind of silly.


    Im against it because it adds zero value to a democracy.

    The rest of your post is just more nonsense.


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    #74
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Don't worry about it.

    I'm not the one worrying about it.


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    #75
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Honest people don't go into Irish politics for good reason.




    Which is?? Is there only one or are there many?



    Why not be the first honest person?


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    #76
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    listermint wrote: »
    Do I have to give the definition of democracy.

    Or are we all going to go around destroying the literal meaning of words Today.

    Democracy is a framework of governance as set out in the constitution and not what you are anyone else makes up. Which means that it is not the same country to country.


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    #77
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Nobelium wrote: »
    I'm not the one worrying about it.


    Well neither are the politicians. Because to them, you don't use your vote so you don't count. Next time when they are out canvassing they might head out to at least pretend to hear issues on your doorstep. They probably have data about the active voters in your area. If they find out that nobody bothers voting, then they might not bother their arses even coming round to pretend they listen.


    And if there was "one honest politician", well sure there would be no point in them coming around either. They'd be wasting their time.


  • Options
    #78
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,988 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    listermint wrote: »
    It's really not.

    We make people partake in citizenship in various many other ways. Yet this is where you draw a line.... Voting
    .. really .... Lol

    And there you go.... you have your own definition of democracy.


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    #79
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Well neither are the politicians. Because to them, you don't use your vote so you don't count. Next time when they are out canvassing they might head out to at least pretend to hear issues on your doorstep. They probably have data about the active voters in your area. If they find out that nobody bothers voting, then they might not bother their arses even coming round to pretend they listen.

    I would be delighted if they didn't, it would save me having to wash my doorstep after any scumbag politician or their lackeys have been on it.

    And actually politicians are the ones always crying and worrying about a good " turnout ".


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    #80
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Nobelium wrote: »
    I would be delighted if they didn't, it would save me having to wash my doorstep after any scumbag politician or their cronies have been on it.




    Well if you ranked your politicians in order from biggest arsehole all the way down to least arsehole and give your vote to least arsehole, then you might inspire second-least arsehole to improve a bit in order to get your vote next time.


  • Options
    #81
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    PokeHerKing wrote: »
    More nonsense. Any chance of something coherent?




    Its grand. No point wasting either of our times if you can't comprehend simple logic.


    I suspect though that you can and are just too stubborn or embarrassed to admit it. In which case no point continuing either.


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    #82
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    SNIP. Don't dump pics here please.


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    #83
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Nobelium wrote: »
    This is the only type of vote worthy of any respect :

    How so do you think we should govern society?

    A lucky dip lottery maybe? Or a kingsmoot possibly?


  • Options
    #84
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,215 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    The less people that vote the better as far as I’m concerned.

    I prefer my vote to hold more sway.


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    #85
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,362 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Jaylee Easy Foreigner wrote: »
    Of course in the future, with the rise of e-voting machines, a spoiled vote won't even an option, get taken to the e-booth, and be instructed to press the button, press a button, press it now!.
    Donald Trump wrote: »
    They can put that option on an e-voting machine if people are that bothered. Or maybe you could just turn up, sign in and not press any button.
    The big question remains as to how you know that the buttons you press reflect the vote stored on the machine and later counted at the end of the day.

    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    It should be mandatory, but it should also be easier.

    There is no reason that we cant have a secure voting system. If everyone in the countries money is safe behind a simple username and password with online banking them surely they can make a voting system.

    And in the case where some security breach is found then they just reset the election and tell everyone to vote again.

    It just be as easy as installing an app, signing in and voting.
    The difference between financial systems and voting systems is anonymity. In the banking system, your money is directly linked to you. In a voting system, your vote MUST be anonymous to protect the secret ballot. It must NOT be linked to you. And yet, it must be auditable, with a way for you to confirm that your vote has been recorded and counted properly, but NOT in a way that allows you to sell your vote.


    Spend a few hours digging into these issues before you say that 'there is no reason'.


    trellheim wrote: »
    BS it is. i can think of no finer form of democracy than being it the law to choose. We do it for jury service. You must serve. ( this of course is all off topic )

    Water John wrote: »
    I presume, in a while we all will be voting on out phones anyway.
    We won't, unless we want to make it easy for people to sell their votes, or for domineering family members or employers to force others how to vote. Polling booths aren't a quaint anachronism. They are there to protect the integrity of the vote.
    BrokenArrows wrote: »
    Most people are very busy these days with long commutes, kids to take care of, other **** to do.

    Taking time in the morning or evening is not a luxury everyone has and in a lot of cases is in the decision between voting and not voting.

    For me its a drive to the local school where there is no parking. So park illegally or park far away and walk. Then go to the place. Queue up, vote, leave, walk back to the car and back home again. Takes at least an hour out of my day. Ill still do it.

    The technology these days means this shouldnt be necessary. And if they want more people to vote the only way is to get technical and have mobile/pc voting.
    Trials on mobile/remote voting in the UK in the early 2000s showed no impact on turnout. It really didn't inspire large numbers of additional people to vote.


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    From what I gather, people for jury duty are taken from electoral register so if you are never going to vote, they can take themselves off that and officially have no say in running the country. But I'd tie it into entitlement or access to some other service. By that I'd mean that in order to avail of something, you'd need to be on the electoral register.

    Surely there could be a way to draw for jury service based on other lists - including everyone who gets a welfare payment, and who pays any tax to Revenue, and who is a parent with a child in school. It shouldn't be an option for you to opt-out of jury service and lose your vote.
    GarIT wrote: »
    I think it would be a crazy idea to force people who have no interest in voting to just pick whatever face they like the best. Voting should be left to people who want to vote.


    This is an interesting question. Broadly I'd agree with you, but I'd rather see some research findings before deciding.

    robman60 wrote: »
    Really hate the Australian system. When I lived there, a friend of mine was saying he has no idea and just picks Labor but that he does not want to vote, does not inform myself, but just does it to avoid liability. I think that is a terrible thing and does not help democracy at all.
    They can't force you to vote. They can force you to take a paper into the polling booth, but they can't see what you do with the paper.



    Donald Trump wrote: »
    I find that to be a weak argument. The onus would be on all politicians to compete for those votes.


    Populism runs riot more so when there is apathy and lack of engagement. Look at the Brexit referendum. The populists were able to drum up their support (and still are). There are plenty of people in the middle of each debate and these are probably the ones less motivated to engage. If they come into the equations, they drag the critical mass back from the extremes
    There is a serious danger that it would push politicians into MORE extreme positions, as happened with Trump and Farage.

    Nobelium wrote: »
    Especially if they know all the candidates to be lying self serving scum
    Except that they're not.
    Nobelium wrote: »
    Honest people don't go into Irish politics for good reason.
    Lots of them do.
    Nobelium wrote: »
    I'm not voting for any of the scum, end of story, and I'll never be forced to either.
    It's good of you to let your neighbours decide how to run the country.


  • Options
    #86
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The big question remains as to how you know that the buttons you press reflect the vote stored on the machine and later counted at the end of the day.

    Am not a believer in e-voting due to lack of paper trail. I just included it rather than go down the road of having to explain the issues.


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    There is a serious danger that it would push politicians into MORE extreme positions, as happened with Trump and Farage.


    I'll disagree with you on this. I'm not sure why people who would otherwise be apathetic enough not to bother vote would be pulled to an extreme. I can anticipate some kind of argument where one might think that the people who do not vote are disengaged and maybe poorer/less educated and that those might be pulled towards extremes. I don't really buy that all those people are gullible and automatically attracted to populism and demagoguery. And the onus is on the other politicians to earn their votes. There might be a greater danger initially, but once people start to take responsibility for their choices then they will become more engaged.


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    #87
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Except that they're not.

    Except that in truth they are
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Lots of them do.

    Not very good at this truth thing are you ?
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It's good of you to let your neighbours decide how to run the country.

    You are particularly clueless if you think voters run the country


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    #88
    Nobelium
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭Nobelium


    Tell me how wrote: »
    How so do you think we should govern society?

    A lucky dip lottery maybe? Or a kingsmoot possibly?

    Well first of off you have to have a society


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    #89
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Except that in truth they are



    Not very good at this truth thing are you ?



    You are particularly clueless if you think voters run the country

    Who do you think runs the country?
    How do you think they get the opportunity to do so?


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    #90
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Except that in truth they are



    Not very good at this truth thing are you ?



    You are particularly clueless if you think voters run the country




    It's ok dude. Seeing as you have no preference between the politics of all and any of FG/FF/Lab/SF/GP/SD/independents etc. I, and others, went out and voted for you. Our votes are all possibly worth a smidgin more because you didn't bother to use yours. If you don't like our choices, then tough. Too late moaning about it now. You had your chance. Maybe next time.


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    #91
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users Posts: 19,025 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Nobelium wrote: »
    Dream on you gullible brainwashed pawn.

    If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it.
    Mark Twain




    If you care about how the country is run, you should have manned up and taken responsibility and made a decision. If you don't care then don't worry about it and stop moaning. Go ahead with your life and let others make the decisions for you. You'll be happy and they'll be happy.


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