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Shannon airport

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Nok1a


    lotusm wrote: »
    Looks like the best option for the Govt is to move the T/A to Cork

    Why would you move TA to cork?

    At the moment if Cork people want to fly T/A they can:
    1. Fly from Shannon:
    -1hr 43min journey according to google maps with 1 toll,
    -Quieter more enjoyable airport,
    -Car park(although a bit more expensive) is only a 2min walk to the terminal.

    2. Fly from Dublin
    -2hr 36min journey with 3 tolls(one of which is a pain in the ass unless u have easypass),
    -Car parks miles away which adds time to the whole process,
    -Dublin traffic can be a pain in the ass around newlands cross,
    -You have to face a longer journey home, when most TA flights arrive in the AM right at peak traffic in dublin.

    So all in all at the moment its a much more plessant less stressful experience for Cork people to fly from Shannon so if they move TA to cork will they necessarily get any additional TA traffic from cork area?

    At the moment Shannon caters for TA passengers all along the west coast(as its closer than dublin and a nicer airport) so if TA was moved to cork you would lose TA people to Dublin as it would be make more sense for any one living above limerick to drive to dublin.

    As has been said 100s of times TA would not operate our of Shannon if there was not a demand, and the other side of it is that if there was a demand out of cork there would be a service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭xflyer


    As far as I know there are no longer too many complex rules as such as to whether or not any airport can have a transatlantic service. Certainly it's not the government's job to decide which airports get a transatlantic service or not.

    If the management at Cork airport feel there's a market there. They should go to the airlines and make their case. Offer them incentives. but as far as I know the runway is limiting.

    It's not up to the government to take away services from one airport and hand it to another. This is not the 1970s. If Shannon want more services then go and get them. Government needs to stay the hell out of it.

    Sure it's tough if you live in West Cork or Donegal or Clifden and want to go to New York. But them's the breaks.

    There's a bit of a mentality in this country that everyone no matter where they live should have first class access to everything. Airports, world class hospitals, frequent and cheap public transport, first class roads, well paid jobs, gold plated everything even if you live in the middle of nowhere.

    But this is Ireland not Utopia. You might get all this in a Communist state but of course you wouldn't be allowed to leave the country if that happened or complain when things don't work out like you were told by the local Commissar.

    In the real world everything is compromised and the main population centres get all the good stuff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Cork is doing ok with its 40+ european routes. CAA have tried on many occasions to start a T/A but all have failed. Last attempt even went to the booking stage, wife was booked, but luckly was refunded. Slatterys of Tralee were behind the venture. Aircraft was to be a 757 of either, Ryan International or North American, can't remember which. While many excuses were put forward for it not going ahead, I suspect the real reason being lack of bookings.
    Location wise SNN can be as easy if not easier to get to from any point north of Mallow and Kerry likewise. Customs and IMM clearence at SNN is a big plus, on a negative side is getting into the car after a 6hour nightime flight and driving down what must now be one of the worst national roads between two cities in Ireland. The very thought of it makes me consider going Cork-LHR and onwards to JFK every time I go to book. If the price was any way close I might go for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Nok1a


    roundymac wrote: »
    on a negative side is getting into the car after a 6hour nightime flight and driving down what must now be one of the worst national roads between two cities in Ireland. The very thought of it makes me consider going Cork-LHR and onwards to JFK every time I go to book. If the price was any way close I might go for it.

    Id take a 2hr spin on a busy road anytime to/from Shannon airport for a NYC flight compared to adding an extra flight from cork and then having to put up with the experience that is Heathrow(terminal change, go through security a 2nd time, cramped spaces) and also the chaotic US immigration after landing in the US


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,429 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    As a Corkonian I can tell you that the major disadvantage of Shannon is the awful, very dangerous road to Shannon.

    I much prefer spend then extra 45 minutes driving the nice safe road to Dublin. Almost all of my family and friends in Cork fly out of Dublin, I can't think of any of them ever flying out of Shannon.

    Obviously if the M20 ever gets built it will be a major improvement.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    xflyer wrote: »
    As far as I know there are no longer too many complex rules as such as to whether or not any airport can have a transatlantic service. Certainly it's not the government's job to decide which airports get a transatlantic service or not.

    If the management at Cork airport feel there's a market there. They should go to the airlines and make their case. Offer them incentives. but as far as I know the runway is limiting..

    @xflyer The runway is 2133mtrs with a constant crosswind. Would I be correct in saying a fully laden 757 would get off ok, I presume landing would be ok, we had a fully laden KLM 743 divert there with a fire in the hold indication, and another KLM this time an MD 11, with a sick passenger both coming from Central America.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,747 ✭✭✭Comhrá


    The very thought of it makes me consider going Cork-LHR and onwards to JFK every time I go to book. If the price was any way close I might go for it.

    I too, thought this a good idea until I flew SNN LHR ORD last summer.
    I had checked in online the night before but at LHR they couldn't bring my ESTA data up on their system..... more delays with security and eventually we were bussed out to T5 through what looked like Ground Zero and then we boarded a BA 777 by steps - outdoors ala Ryanair.

    Lesson learnt. It's SNN in future - even if the fare is higher.

    John.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭drdeadlift


    roundymac wrote: »
    @xflyer The runway is 2133mtrs with a constant crosswind. Would I be correct in saying a fully laden 757 would get off ok, I presume landing would be ok, we had a fully laden KLM 743 divert there with a fire in the hold indication, and another KLM this time an MD 11, with a sick passenger both coming from Central America.

    A 757 would have no weight restrictions operating to the us east coast from cork.


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Suits


    roundymac wrote: »
    @xflyer The runway is 2133mtrs with a constant crosswind. Would I be correct in saying a fully laden 757 would get off ok, I presume landing would be ok, we had a fully laden KLM 743 divert there with a fire in the hold indication, and another KLM this time an MD 11, with a sick passenger both coming from Central America.

    I believe there was an issue with backtracking large aircraft in Cork. Plus with T/A aircraft arriving in the AM there is a tendency to be locked in CAT III at Cork in the morning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    Suits wrote: »
    I believe there was an issue with backtracking large aircraft in Cork. Plus with T/A aircraft arriving in the AM there is a tendency to be locked in CAT III at Cork in the morning.


    Non issue on both counts. Turnpad at the end of rwy 17 was laid long ago. Coming in on rwy 35 they just turn off on A. Been 757's and 767's in over the last few months.

    Also contrary to popular belief the fog/low cloud usually hits ORK late at night.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    Non issue on both counts. Turnpad at the end of rwy 17 was laid long ago. Coming in on rwy 35 they just turn off on A. Been 757's and 767's in over the last few months.

    Also contrary to popular belief the fog/low cloud usually hits ORK late at night.

    There have been quite a few 747;s at Cork aswell that never had any issues. Fog and low cloud occur at all times of the day especially in the morning. I live at the same altitude as Cork airport (give or take 100ft) and I live less than 2 miles east of the airport. I have a view of the entire city. Most of the fog seems to come early in the morning originating from the river lee. This then rises up later in the morning (its at this time that it usually affects the airport). Its especially common in the summer/spring


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭Growler!!!


    I'm just going off of my own experience. I've carried out more CatII appr at night than in the mornings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Suits


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    Non issue on both counts. Turnpad at the end of rwy 17 was laid long ago. Coming in on rwy 35 they just turn off on A. Been 757's and 767's in over the last few months.

    Also contrary to popular belief the fog/low cloud usually hits ORK late at night.

    I just got that off a guy in Atlantic when I was shopping round FTOs. He mentioned the backtrack but also said that the regular schedule T/A airlines worried about not being able to get in due to minimums in the morning. Thats what I was told.

    I also know from a transport logistics point of view that US carriers see it as a waste of money as they also fly to Dublin and a 2.5 hour commute to the airport isnt unusal in the states so they dont see the issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Darius.Tr


    Just finished watching about shannon airport on "Aerfort" on RTE playr. Looks like the airport has a great history, would have loved to see it meself in 50's-60's...it's a shame to see it with so few flights, I hope someone will find a good use for it to keep the airport as busy as it used to be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,544 ✭✭✭Hogzy


    Growler!!! wrote: »
    I'm just going off of my own experience. I've carried out more CatII appr at night than in the mornings.

    Didnt know you were a pilot. Maybe you are right and night time is worse. Im just running off my experience of looking out the toilet window while taking my morning wee. :pac:

    And driving up and down the airport road of course.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Issue with the turntable concerned A330 only. I think is was something to do with possible damage to the nosewheel if it was put in a very tight lock and held there for the whole turn. This was resolved by increasing the turntable. EI still trot it out as an excuse for not operating T/A. Think a A330 would be under pressure fully loaded with a runway 2133mt long. Pilots can correct me on this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭Suits


    roundymac wrote: »
    Issue with the turntable concerned A330 only. I think is was something to do with possible damage to the nosewheel if it was put in a very tight lock and held there for the whole turn. This was resolved by increasing the turntable. EI still trot it out as an excuse for not operating T/A. Think a A330 would be under pressure fully loaded with a runway 2133mt long. Pilots can correct me on this.

    At DUB a fully loaded A330 wont get off 16/34 and that is 2072m. 10/28 is 2637m and sometimes when an A330 is fully packed it uses a fair bit of that in still wind. It'd doable I'd imagine at Cork, but like I said before Ireland is a smaller place now and there's no need to fly from Cork when they go from Dublin


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    Another 61m at Cork won't make much difference so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭drdeadlift


    I took a picture of the ek330 dep Dublin wed gone.It rotated just before e5 so thats using about 1300m of runway,trip fuel to dxb from dub on a 332 is about 60kton with a flight distance 3200nm.East coast of The us say jfk is about 2800nm,fuel weight being the biggest effect on performance i dont see cork having a problem.I would post pics but im not sure how to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 708 ✭✭✭A320


    A330 doesn't need to be fully loaded for a trip to east coast usa to cork,im pretty certain i remember seeing an A330 take runway 34 at dub to lax so a cork to east coast us shouldn't be a prob
    The whole nose wheel steering issue is an excuse still being used,however it did exist I thinkit was a steering collar issue,i deffo recall seeing the service bulletin years ago but i think airbus just brought out a more modern steering collar for the NLG


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    The rotate point in normal operations is irrelevant, they may not even be using full power, the critical factor is the V1 engine failure distance, the point at which if an engine fails, it can still get off safely on the remaining runway, at which point it also has to be able to climb away without falling foul of any obstacles. Fortunately, engine failures on long haul aircraft are rare, but when they happen, they get the attention of all involved very rapidly, and the pressure on all involved is significant. An engine failure on a twin is usually more significant than on something like a 747, if for no other reason than the 747 has lost 25% thrust, the twin loses 50%, and this is one of the reasons why any twin jet climbs a lot better than the larger 4 engine aircraft, the thrust reserve is that much higher, and if it's being used, the twin will climb faster or steeper than the 4 engine. That's one of the reasons for the standing joke about the early 340's only being able to climb because of the curvature of the earth, and why they can fly so far once they get to height, the twin has to have power reserves for operational safety that go way beyond the 4 engine.

    Take a look at some of the performance of the early jets, and at the long range piston aircraft. Their climb performance fully loaded was not exactly sparkling, which was the reason that many of the control zones around places like Heathrow were so large, in the early days of long haul, they had to be in order to provide separation from the traffic that needed a lot longer to climb away effectively.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 708 ✭✭✭A320


    Almost worse than an engine failure is this annoying controller as ididcated here!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnBWLGnrh5Q


  • Registered Users Posts: 27 Undercover FBI Agent


    There has been a rumour doing the rounds that Transaero has purchased (or preparing to purchase) Air Atlanta aerospace engineering based in Shannon and raising the workforce to 200.

    Hopefully it happens as Shannon could do with a boost


  • Registered Users Posts: 708 ✭✭✭A320


    thats a done deal,i heard another rumour they're expanding the hanger,which side i dunno,theyre gonna start maint on B777's too!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,189 ✭✭✭drdeadlift


    There has been a rumour doing the rounds that Transaero has purchased (or preparing to purchase) Air Atlanta aerospace engineering based in Shannon and raising the workforce to 200.

    Hopefully it happens as Shannon could do with a boost

    Would be great to see it make an impact on the local area in a positive way.I think shannon is feckt


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    I think thats the way for SNN to go, a major overhaul centre. I know there is a lot of maintainence companies there already but I think there can be more if the the right conditions are in place. What they would be I don't know but has the viability of this been even looked at?


  • Registered Users Posts: 708 ✭✭✭A320


    yea but then if there's too many companies it wont work,its expanding scope of approvals of the current companies to handle other aircraft ie bombardiers,Embraers,330,777 etc etc is what should be done,A friend of mine says shannon aerospace will definitely become a B787 facility,its on the LHT website


  • Registered Users Posts: 613 ✭✭✭Darius.Tr


    A320 wrote: »
    yea but then if there's too many companies it wont work,its expanding scope of approvals of the current companies to handle other aircraft ie bombardiers,Embraers,330,777 etc etc is what should be done,A friend of mine says shannon aerospace will definitely become a B787 facility,its on the LHT website
    I was told that they allready did some sort of training one of the times when B787 was in shannon, not sure if thats true though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭Stormhawk88


    Hey guys I was just thinking about posting a thread on this rumour of the expansion of Air Atlanta at Shannon when I saw yere discussion here. I just heard this rumour today and it seems Air Atlanta is already having a nosy to see what the recruitment market is like. Also the rumour I heard was that they are planning on building a new hangar able to house 747 and 777.

    Heres a quote from their vacancy page:

    "B1 & B2 Licensed Aircraft Engineers for B737 Classic + NG/B747- 300/400, B767 and B777"

    And the link:
    http://www.shannonmro.com/vacancies

    This would be great for shannon and the mid-west. Might bring some life back in to the airport.:)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 708 ✭✭✭A320


    Hey guys I was just thinking about posting a thread on this rumour of the expansion of Air Atlanta at Shannon when I saw yere discussion here. I just heard this rumour today and it seems Air Atlanta is already having a nosy to see what the recruitment market is like. Also the rumour I heard was that they are planning on building a new hangar able to house 747 and 777.

    Heres a quote from their vacancy page:

    "B1 & B2 Licensed Aircraft Engineers for B737 Classic + NG/B747- 300/400, B767 and B777"

    And the link:
    http://www.shannonmro.com/vacancies

    This would be great for shannon and the mid-west. Might bring some life back in to the airport.:)

    A few movements for maintenance is not going to bring life back to the airport,the air atlanta 777 dream is for aog cover for transaero or so i hear,theres already a few selected for a type course.
    The hangar can already house one 747 which isnt economic for the place,surely it can already hold a 777


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