Toyota is bringing back Camry and discontinuing Avensis

shirazhyder84 · 21-06-2018 6:07pm #1

Just read the news that Toyota Ireland is bring back Camry and will discontinue Avensis.
Never liked the Avensis but having driven the last generation of Camry in the middle east, I believe it would be a good addition to the Toyota line-up.
"The new Camry will share its chassis and hybrid powertrain with the new Lexus ES executive saloon, which means it will have the same flexible TNGA (Toyota New Generation Architecture) underpinnings, and a 2.5-litre four-cylinder petrol engine, backed up by a hybrid electric transmission."

colm_mcm · 21-06-2018 6:52pm

I disagree to be honest. A few people in Ireland shed a tear when they stopped selling the Camry in Ireland (We had repeat customers who always got Camrys) but Europe has moved on from non German or non premium large saloons.
The Camry went the way of the Mitsubishi Galant, Opel Omega, Nissan Maxima, Ford Scorpio, Honda Accord, Peugeot 607, Renault Safrane etc etc. the market for regular sized saloons like the Avensis (late of this parish) is shrinking, the market for regular bigger saloons is non-existent.
The Camry hybrid is a front wheel drive 4 cylinder car with a CVT box, it won’t appeal to Paddy and Mary that buy a diesel Avensis every 3 years since they cashed in their SSIA, and it won’t appeal to your A4/A6 company car driver.
Fair enough they’ve been selling the Camry in Europe for a few years now, presumably because it ticks some box in terms of avoiding taxes.

bazz26 · 21-06-2018 7:34pm

The Camry was dropped about 15 years ago because sales dwindled of these size cars. Avensis was dropped earlier this year because sales dwindled due to people buying crossovers instead. I cannot see this Camry being any different and predict it will have a short and undistinguished life span before Toyota pull the plug on it again quietly.

scooby77 · 21-06-2018 7:45pm

As i've said previously I'd be interested if spec and price are reasonable. A similar choice of spec to the USA would be ideal. (I'd be going for LE equivalent, basic model but highest mpg). Though will probably do couple more years in Leon first if remains trouble free and cheap to run!

Would the hybrid not be perfect for a taxi? Dubai for example have over 1000 Camry Hybrid taxis, have used them fairly often, drivers love them.

Pricing will be key.
Here's the press release if anyone's interested:
https://newsroom.toyota.eu/camry-returns-to-western-europe-with-tnga-and-latest-hybrid-electric-powertrain/

mengele · 21-06-2018 7:52pm

Surely the problem with the avensis is that they didn't bring out a new model with yonks?

Supergurrier · 21-06-2018 7:59pm

My dad has had a new Avensis every 2 years since 2000 and is on his 9th one.

He went in afew weeks ago to order a 182 diesel Aura Avensis as normal only to be told they weren't available in diesel anymore and they are completely out of stock so he bought himself a 2 litre d4d Rav4 in silver instead that he is picking up in afew weeks. This is the route i see alot of Avensis drivers going tbh.

bazz26 · 21-06-2018 8:11pm

mengele wrote: »

Surely the problem with the avensis is that they didn't bring out a new model with yonks?

The reason they didn't invest in developing a new model is because it couldn't be justified due to poor sales across Europe. The Avensis was also unique to Europe whereas the Camry is probably a variant already sold in other regions outside of Europe.

The agreement Toyota had with BMW to supply BMW diesel engines finishes at the end of the year afaik and they won't meet new Euro emission tests anyway so the likes of the current Avensis was always going to be killed off, the current RAV4 gets replaced with a new model early next year and won't have any diesel option either.

Dia1988 · 21-06-2018 8:16pm

What's more interesting is that Toyota won't be selling any Diesel cars from 2019 onwards and will persuade customers into hybrids.

No diesel Auris, Corolla, Avensis, Rav 4

This I feel is far to soon for Ireland!!

Although Toyota diesel sales have dropped from 50% in 2017 to 22% this year.

Fair play to Toyota I say!

bazz26 · 21-06-2018 8:30pm

They didn't have much choice really:

Auris/Corolla - 1.4d4d won't meet new EU emission tests and new models of both due towards the end of this year.

Yaris - 1.4d4d same as above.

Avensis - 1.6d4d/2.0d4d are last generation BMW units, agreement with BMW ends this year, they wouldn't meet new EU emission tests and the Avensis model is 9 years old and being retired.

Rav4 - 2.0d4d BMW unit so as above plus Rav4 is being replaced with a new model at the end of the year.

So in essence Toyota have no new diesel engines to replace either their own aging engine or the ones supplied by BMW. They will probably get away with it in other EU countries where their market share ain't as big but they have a good market share in Ireland so in the short term they will suffer a bit. Hence the current big marketing campaign to push hybrids.

Grab All Association · 21-06-2018 8:49pm

Camry looks cheap and tacky in the front like the Corolla.

Cookie_Monster · 21-06-2018 9:04pm

oh dear, and the new camry is utterly hideous too.

ba_barabus · 21-06-2018 9:44pm

bazz26 wrote: »

They didn't have much choice really:

Auris/Corolla - 1.4d4d won't meet new EU emission tests and new models of both due towards the end of this year.

Yaris - 1.4d4d same as above.

Avensis - 1.6d4d/2.0d4d are last generation BMW units, agreement with BMW ends this year, they wouldn't meet new EU emission tests and the Avensis model is 9 years old and being retired.

Rav4 - 2.0d4d BMW unit so as above plus Rav4 is being replaced with a new model at the end of the year.

So in essence Toyota have no new diesel engines to replace either their own aging engine or the ones supplied by BMW. They will probably get away with it in other EU countries where their market share ain't as big but they have a good market share in Ireland so in the short term they will suffer a bit. Hence the current big marketing campaign to push hybrids.

They had a 3 cylinder 1.5 diesel engine almost ready to go but pulled the plug on it before the VW emissions scandal as they reckoned it was impossible to meet the new regs making an honest, reliable and affordable diesel.

mikeecho · 22-06-2018 12:48am

Just googled 2019 Toyota Camry.

By gum... it's ugly

drunkmonkey · 22-06-2018 1:06am

I think it's ok looking, rising petrol prices here and vrt will probably kill it for Irish buyers. Risky move by Toyota ditching the diesel. They'll probably lose a lot of customers to the Germans and French.

johng906 · 22-06-2018 1:58am

I had a new rental camry in the states last week. Awful yoke.

Bazzy · 22-06-2018 7:30am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I think it's ok looking, rising petrol prices here and vrt will probably kill it for Irish buyers. Risky move by Toyota ditching the diesel. They'll probably lose a lot of customers to the Germans and French.

I think its looks lovely

zilog_jones · 22-06-2018 9:46am

colm_mcm wrote: »

The Camry went the way of the Mitsubishi Galant, Opel Omega, Nissan Maxima, Ford Scorpio, Honda Accord, Peugeot 607, Renault Safrane etc etc. the market for regular sized saloons like the Avensis (late of this parish) is shrinking, the market for regular bigger saloons is non-existent.

But as the non-premium marque big saloons (E-segment) disappeared in Europe, the D-segment "large family cars" grew in size. The Camry we got in the '90s was a "mid-size" by US standards, but now all the D-segment saloons here (Mondeo, Insignia, Peugeot 508, Mazda6... there's not many left really) which were once closer to "compacts" are now mid-size too. The current Camry fits right in with these in terms of size, whereas the old Avensis was looking comparatively small.

But yes, that segment is dying anyway - so it makes a lot of sense for Toyota to choose the cheaper option of selling a world car than develop another car specially for Europe (which the Avensis was).

The Camry hybrid is a front wheel drive 4 cylinder car with a CVT box, it won’t appeal to Paddy and Mary that buy a diesel Avensis every 3 years...

This Irish fascination with diesels was just a temporary glitch in the system - even going back to the 1st gen Avensis the large majority sold here were petrols. And now with the efficiency, performance and chape tax of hybrids they don't need to go for the pathetic underpowered 1.6 Paddy Spec version either. The C-HR is selling fine with no diesel.

And maybe I'm weird but I think Toyota eCVT boxes (nothing to do with traditional CVTs btw) work very well, and my left knee is in a much better state not having to deal with heavy diesel clutches...

Hurrache · 22-06-2018 10:01am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

oh dear, and the new camry is utterly hideous too.

mikeecho wrote: »

Just googled 2019 Toyota Camry.

By gum... it's ugly

I don't think Toyota made a reasonable looking saloon car for the Irish market in decades. The Avensis estate is the best looking of their current line up (obviously excluding the GT86).

22-06-2018 10:38am

zilog_jones wrote: »

............and my left knee is in a much better state not having to deal with heavy diesel clutches...

Not many modern diesel clutches are heavy to be fair.

Grab All Association · 22-06-2018 10:47am

zilog_jones wrote: »

But yes, that segment is dying anyway - so it makes a lot of sense for Toyota to choose the cheaper option of selling a world car than develop another car specially for Europe (which the Avensis was)

This Irish fascination with diesels was just a temporary glitch in the system - even going back to the 1st gen Avensis the large majority sold here were petrols. And now with the efficiency, performance and chape tax of hybrids they don't need to go for the pathetic underpowered 1.6 Paddy Spec version either. The C-HR is selling fine with no diesel.

Have to disagree with you there. Almost everyone here in rural parts of Thurles and Nenagh etc swear by diesels. ”shure the petrol will cost yew a lot”
Try explain to them that not only is your 1.4 Corolla/1.6 Avensis/focus etc sluggish and slower than the public service, there’s no savings at all driving in and out of town (4 miles) a few days a week.

I never stopped buying petrols. My current car is a 2017 Skoda Octavia RS. I had to travel to Dublin to purchase it. I was actually looking to purchase an Areton (prob spelt that wrong. Formerly VW CC) and Tom Harvey had nothing but diesels on the lot. It’s cheap to tax and was unbelievablely cheap to insure. There’s two 2016 RS’ within a 4 mile radius though so maybe there’s hope. Neighbours have imported 2.5-3.0 petrols too.

zilog_jones · 22-06-2018 11:29am

Grab All Association wrote: »

Have to disagree with you there. Almost everyone here in rural parts of Thurles and Nenagh etc swear by diesels. ”shure the petrol will cost yew a lot”
Try explain to them that not only is your 1.4 Corolla/1.6 Avensis/focus etc sluggish and slower than the public service, there’s no savings at all driving in and out of town (4 miles) a few days a week.

You disagree they weren't all buying petrols 15-20 years ago, when diesels where more expensive to buy and tax? That's the point I was trying to make - if petrol hybrids can be competitively priced (they already have cheap tax), it won't take much convincing people to change again like they did in 2008. The C-HR is a top 10 seller in Ireland, it has no diesel option and never will. Not so sure the Camry will have much of an impact though, might be popular with taxi drivers (who already seem to be switching en masse to hybrids).

drunkmonkey · 22-06-2018 12:39pm

Won't be switching back to petrol until you can get the vat back on it. If the government was serious about cutting down on diesels this would have happened long ago.
If they switch the current rule to favour petrol you'll see the national fleet change pretty quickly.

Voodoomelon · 22-06-2018 12:45pm

Just back from the States and there's Camrys everywhere, a great looking car. +1 from me.

Philb76 · 22-06-2018 1:17pm

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Just back from the States and there's Camrys everywhere, a great looking car. +1 from me.

Especially new York taxis i like the look of it round are way thers a 92 camry and a 01 being used daily can't see them shifting many here too much badge obsession

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 22-06-2018 9:44pm

the avensis is a car for c*nts end of story

ofcork · 23-06-2018 6:44pm

I will be interested in this have a 12 diesel avensis but want to go back to petrol I think pricing could be in superb territory which could mean mid to high 30s for decent spec.

ba_barabus · 23-06-2018 7:09pm

ofcork wrote: »

I will be interested in this have a 12 diesel avensis but want to go back to petrol I think pricing could be in superb territory which could mean mid to high 30s for decent spec.

I'm interested too. Will be having a good look. The is300h is a bit tight on space. Economy is the only big worry

23-06-2018 10:10pm

ofcork wrote: »

..........I think pricing could be in superb territory which could mean mid to high 30s for decent spec.

Mmmmm .... I reckon you are spot on there.

A CHR hybrid Sol is €32,950 ....... Auris Hybrid Sol is €27,680 (includes reduction of VRT €1,500) ........ an is300 is from: €41,480.00

It won't be a huge volume seller so I doubt Toyota will make them very cheap. Basic versions will be more than a couple of k north of €30k I imagine.

A 1.5TSi Superb with DSG in active spec is €31K

Atlantic Dawn · 23-06-2018 10:12pm

The current Camry looks a lot slimmed down from the last model that was on the Irish market from 2002-2006 or so, could just be the look of it though.

23-06-2018 10:24pm

I noticed a few of them over the years in the States, the ones over there are very much Skoda Superb at least size ish.

Leonard Hofstadter · 23-06-2018 10:36pm

They're almost 4.9 metres long, so a fair bit bigger than the Avensis (which is about 4.7).

Toyota is bringing back Camry and discontinuing Avensis

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