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Buy house, don't pay mortgage, live rent-free for 9 years. MOD WARNING POST #268

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    #92
    UsBus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭UsBus


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Why would they have paid anything? The house is in negative equity. When it is sold they will get nothing of what they paid into the house back. Why pay more into it?

    Are you for real..?
    Maybe because they agreed to pay the loan back when they took the mortgage out..?
    You do realise that by them not paying anything back, you are paying extra..
    Hopefully they will be made an example out of..


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    #93
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    UsBus wrote: »
    Are you for real..?
    Maybe because they agreed to pay the loan back when they took the mortgage out..?
    They agreed that when the house was in positive equity. Now that it is in negative equity it doesn't seem like such a good idea.
    UsBus wrote: »
    You do realise that by them not paying anything back, you are paying extra..
    Hopefully they will be made an example out of..
    I am not selfish thinking of myself, only explaining why it is rational for them to behave as they have. I don't see how it is costing me anything extra in any event.


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    #94
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Why would they have paid anything? The house is in negative equity. When it is sold they will get nothing of what they paid into the house back. Why pay more into it?

    That's the thing, they did pay interest until they were told not to by the bank according to them.


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    #95
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,505 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    I'm not a fan of these two people but I remember the crash. I suffered huge financial loss myself due to being ill for a couple of years during it. I've gotten myself back to a debt free situation thankfully. The banks certainly weren't looking to help me though, they just wanted their money and my struggles with illness were unimportant.
    After my experience I'd never be taking the side of banks or vulture funds though. They screwed this country over and we all.paid a huge price and still are.
    While I understand the legal side of this whole affair there are children involved too.
    The legal profession is making a fortune off all this as well.
    There are no winners in this. Obviously the family involved don't have a pot to piss in. People are giving out about an unpaid mortgage but what about the legal costs which it looks like the taxpayer will foot the bill for? The legal costs appear to be nearly the price of the money owed which is insane.
    We are all getting conned by the banks, vulture funds and the legal profession.
    Imo the least important thing about this whole mess is the people who haven't vacated the property.


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    #96
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Those people are the ones who put themselves in the situation/caused it - stop with the diminishing of their role.


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    #97
    Damien360
    Registered Users Posts: 6,250 ✭✭✭Damien360


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    I don't see how it is costing me anything extra in any event.

    Only a few months ago, an oireachtas committee hauled in the banks over high interest rates. They said that the inability to recover debt from household mortgages was the reason for the higher than EU average interest rates. This current example is just one of thousands.

    So for every single person that does not pay their mortgage, you and I are making up the difference. That is not inferred, it is fact.


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    #98
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,268 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Damien360 wrote: »
    Only a few months ago, an oireachtas committee hauled in the banks over high interest rates. They said that the inability to recover debt from household mortgages was the reason for the higher than EU average interest rates. This current example is just one of thousands.

    So for every single person that does not pay their mortgage, you and I are making up the difference. That is not inferred, it is fact.

    And those same lads while lambasting the bank reps will head on down the hall to the housing committee and wail about evictions and 'vulture funds'


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    #99
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    That's the thing, they did pay interest until they were told not to by the bank according to them.

    Maybe so, as part of a forbearance arrangement. It would have meant a delay in the onset of proceedings and likely would have been cheaper than rent. The bank might well have refused to continue the forbearance arrangement.


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    #100
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    That's the thing, they did pay interest until they were told not to by the bank according to them.

    They got the Protective Certificate under false pretences, had agreed to vacate the property etc so I’d take any claims from the couple with a pinch of salt.


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    #101
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Damien360 wrote: »
    Only a few months ago, an oireachtas committee hauled in the banks over high interest rates. They said that the inability to recover debt from household mortgages was the reason for the higher than EU average interest rates. This current example is just one of thousands.

    So for every single person that does not pay their mortgage, you and I are making up the difference. That is not inferred, it is fact.

    A lot of people don't have a mortgage so how are they paying anything?


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    #102
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    irishguy1983 wrote: »
    Fairly confused with this one...Why haven’t they paid anything for 9 years? Any valid reason? Why has it been allowed go for 9 years?

    Why would they have paid anything? The house is in negative equity. When it is sold they will get nothing of what they paid into the house back. Why pay more into it?

    Because they have the use of the house while they are allowed live there.

    People who rent are also paying into a house but will get nothing back when it sells.

    Rightly so as it's not the tenants house.

    If they want to stop paying anything towards the debt on that house then it's hand the keys back time.

    Landlords are rightly upset that it could take two years to get a non paying tenant out if Tenant maxes out all the options they might have to overhold.

    They did very well to get 9 years with no payment. A grand deal to be fair - but I'm afraid it's time to accept that its over.

    In saying that I've seen comments on facebook that they paid interest only for that time.

    But I will go with the media reports of paying nothing.

    Would expect Ryan and Flood to outline what exactly they paid over the last 9 years had they played ball.

    Thats because showing how they paid a sum each month helps their case.

    Especially if the vulture got the loan cheap.


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    #103
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Yeah I don't get the devil's advocate stuff. Living in a house and not paying for it... mind blowing.


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    #104
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    Old diesel wrote: »
    Because they have the use of the house while they are allowed live there.

    People who rent are also paying into a house but will get nothing back when it sells.

    Rightly so as it's not the tenants house.

    If they want to stop paying anything towards the debt on that house then it's hand the keys back time.

    Landlords are rightly upset that it could take two years to get a non paying tenant out if Tenant maxes out all the options they might have to overhold.

    They did very well to get 9 years with no payment. A grand deal to be fair - but I'm afraid it's time to accept that its over.

    In saying that I've seen comments on facebook that they paid interest only for that time.

    But I will go with the media reports of paying nothing.

    Would expect Ryan and Flood to outline what exactly they paid over the last 9 years had they played ball.

    Thats because showing how they paid a sum each month helps their case.

    Especially if the vulture got the loan cheap.

    https://independent.ie/irish-news/courts/when-you-only-have-one-side-of-the-story-it-looks-horrific-restaurateur-ronan-ryan-on-not-having-to-pay-1-2m-debt-on-home-37900137.html


    It's just one side [you hear in court], it looks horrific... it looks like we sat in a house for nine years looking for a free place to live, but we were paying interest all along until we were told not to," he said.

    He said they tried to sell the house on three previous occasions but "the offers weren't high enough".

    "Different people have had the loan over a different period of time. We would have been gone in 2011, 2013 and 2016 only for they wanted the asset to appreciate, which it has massively. Now they walk off into the sunset with the money. I have no animosity towards them but this is the fourth time we've tried to sell the house.

    "We had to pack our bags and take my pregnant wife out of the house every Saturday so people could view it the first time around but they weren't happy and wanted the asset to appreciate and we were told to remain in the house."

    ^^^
    Looks like it isn't just as clear cut as not paying anything for 9 years and acting the bollox.


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    #105
    2xj3hplqgsbkym
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭2xj3hplqgsbkym


    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/interiors/at-home-with-pamela-flood-i-am-a-total-hoarder-1.3333531%3fmode=amp

    This whole story actually infuriates me. I live about 10 minutes away with my 3 children in a house I bought at the height of the boom also. My husband lost his job just after we moved in , and also in the last few years suffered from long term illness.
    We live in a tiny two bed, all the work on it was done by us, majority of furniture is IKEA and there is still lots to do on it that we can’t afford to do. We have struggled to pay our mortgage, cried over missing repayments, borrowed from family to meet to repayments ,and asked the bank for leniency several times to no avail.

    We are finally back on track in last few years and finally out of negative equity but can’t afford to extend or move to bigger house.

    So it sickens me to see this family living in a huge house down the road , with expensive paintings , a range as big as my kitchen , Caroline Donnelly furnishings, a garden full of trampolines , toys and even more toys, and they haven’t paid a cent of the mortgage.

    Even the cheek to do that article in the Irish Times , to show off their beautiful home that they haven’t paid a cent for- it’s sickening.
    I really hope the judge is not lenient with them.

    I know a guy in work who bought an aparthotel in boom time as an investment for €300,000, after the crash he just told the bank he wasn’t paying - gave them €20,000 and that’s it, no repercussions, then he moved to a bigger house in nicer area and built an extension, so obviously had lots of money.


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    #106
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,624 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I think the fact the house is worth so much more now is taking into account. Bank will sell it and make a huge profit.


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    #107
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,786 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Old diesel wrote: »
    Because they have the use of the house while they are allowed live there.

    People who rent are also paying into a house but will get nothing back when it sells.

    Rightly so as it's not the tenants house.

    If they want to stop paying anything towards the debt on that house then it's hand the keys back time.

    Landlords are rightly upset that it could take two years to get a non paying tenant out if Tenant maxes out all the options they might have to overhold.

    They did very well to get 9 years with no payment. A grand deal to be fair - but I'm afraid it's time to accept that its over.

    In saying that I've seen comments on facebook that they paid interest only for that time.

    But I will go with the media reports of paying nothing.

    Would expect Ryan and Flood to outline what exactly they paid over the last 9 years had they played ball.

    Thats because showing how they paid a sum each month helps their case.

    Especially if the vulture got the loan cheap.

    https://independent.ie/irish-news/courts/when-you-only-have-one-side-of-the-story-it-looks-horrific-restaurateur-ronan-ryan-on-not-having-to-pay-1-2m-debt-on-home-37900137.html


    It's just one side [you hear in court], it looks horrific... it looks like we sat in a house for nine years looking for a free place to live, but we were paying interest all along until we were told not to," he said.

    He said they tried to sell the house on three previous occasions but "the offers weren't high enough".

    "Different people have had the loan over a different period of time. We would have been gone in 2011, 2013 and 2016 only for they wanted the asset to appreciate, which it has massively. Now they walk off into the sunset with the money. I have no animosity towards them but this is the fourth time we've tried to sell the house.

    "We had to pack our bags and take my pregnant wife out of the house every Saturday so people could view it the first time around but they weren't happy and wanted the asset to appreciate and we were told to remain in the house."

    ^^^
    Looks like it isn't just as clear cut as not paying anything for 9 years and acting the bollox.

    Yet I've never heard the "the bank TOLD us stay in the house" story before from anyone else - as in other people in mortgage problems

    Normally you have to try and do a deal with the bank - involving paying something.

    We still dont know what exactly Ronan and Pamela paid in money terms in the last 9 years.

    Two sides to every story but it actually looks like Ronan and Pamela did quite well to stay in the house this long.


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    #108
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭lalababa


    Restaurant business is notoriously unsolid, as is the entertainment industry unless a full time employee of RTE. I don't know the figures of the mortgage or loans but they appear to be big. Probably shouldn't have gotten approved.
    But part of me says fair play to them if they can get away with rent/mortgage free for 9 years. Whatever the legal & debt recovery/eviction system s are being used they are clearly not for purpose by along shot. The boyos with the power to change that sit in Leinster house...so would not hold out much hope of these kind of messes being cleaned up. But they did bring in the personal bankruptcy law (is it 2years long?) Fair play to them.


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    #109
    2xj3hplqgsbkym
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭2xj3hplqgsbkym


    lalababa wrote: »
    Restaurant business is notoriously unsolid, as is the entertainment industry unless a full time employee of RTE. I don't know the figures of the mortgage or loans but they appear to be big. Probably shouldn't have gotten approved.
    But part of me says fair play to them if they can get away with rent/mortgage free for 9 years. Whatever the legal & debt recovery/eviction system s are being used they are clearly not for purpose by along shot. The boyos with the power to change that sit in Leinster house...so would not hold out much hope of these kind of messes being cleaned up. But they did bring in the personal bankruptcy law (is it 2years long?) Fair play to them.

    I really don’t get how people think it’s fair play. I know people are angry with banks/ government etc.. and have every right to be , but why does that make it okay to steal/ live rent free/ ignore a contract.
    If the restaurant business is not steady and she didn’t have a permanent job they should have bought a smaller/ cheaper house , yes the banks were wrong to give them such a mortgage but they didn’t have to take it.


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    #110
    seasidedub
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭seasidedub


    Nobody goes into a shop and attempts to buy without money to pay for the goods. If you buy a car on loan and stop maki g payments, the car will be repossessed and nobody sees anything wrong with that.
    If we continue to treat houses differently - as we currently do in Ireland, then we need to accept that mortgages here will always be higher than in Europe as a whole. Our interest rates are far higher because the risk to the lender is greater. This is just a fact.


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    #111
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    seasidedub wrote: »
    Nobody goes into a shop and attempts to buy without money to pay for the goods. If you buy a car on loan and stop maki g payments, the car will be repossessed and nobody sees anything wrong with that.
    If we continue to treat houses differently - as we currently do in Ireland, then we need to accept that mortgages here will always be higher than in Europe as a whole. Our interest rates are far higher because the risk to the lender is greater. This is just a fact.

    Why don't we bring back the English and their battering rams altogether?


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    #112
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    <SNIP>


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    #113
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    This is the accommodation & property forum. General gossip can be taken elsewhere.


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    #114
    seasidedub
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭seasidedub


    "Why don't we bring back the English and their battering rams altogether?"

    Seriously?

    If people, no matter their circumstances simply don't have to pay their mortgages and can stay indefinitely in the property, then why would anyone bother paying? Are you seriously suggesting you should be able to stay in a property for which you clearly can't pay? Seriously?

    There is no other EU country where you'd get away with this. House would be repossessed, you'd go into social housing and debt repayments would be attached to your salary. I accept there's currently no social housing in Dublin (in particular), but being able to stay somewhere you clearly can't pay for is nuts.

    And bringing the British into it is just invoking Godwin's Law - it shuts down the argument.


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    #115
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    I think the fact the house is worth so much more now is taking into account. Bank will sell it and make a huge profit.

    The bank own it. Its their to sell at a profit if they want.


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    #116
    TimeToShine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    <SNIP>


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    #117
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Warning

    If it's unrelated to accommodation & property, take it somewhere else.

    Do not reply to this on thread.


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    #118
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    seasidedub wrote: »
    Nobody goes into a shop and attempts to buy without money to pay for the goods. If you buy a car on loan and stop maki g payments, the car will be repossessed and nobody sees anything wrong with that.
    If we continue to treat houses differently - as we currently do in Ireland, then we need to accept that mortgages here will always be higher than in Europe as a whole. Our interest rates are far higher because the risk to the lender is greater. This is just a fact.

    Even our car leasing and reposessions are a bit out there, look at the cost of leasing a new car in the US or germany vs here, a lot less fees and lower rates and payments.

    The general irish oublic have a distorted view steeped in history on having property reposessed. Those oaying a mortgage and those trying for a mortgage should be championing reposession, adds more to the housing stock and lowers banks liabilities meaning their cost to lend can be lower.


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    #119
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    A lot of people don't have a mortgage so how are they paying anything?

    Lower deposit interest rates


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    #120
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    I love the lines about four kids.. and people in New York. .. all gold to the common simple folk scraping a living and feeding off tabloid news papers. ..


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    #121
    irishguy1983
    Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭irishguy1983


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Why would they have paid anything? The house is in negative equity. When it is sold they will get nothing of what they paid into the house back. Why pay more into it?

    I kind of grew up thinking if I borrowed money I had to pay it back....


This discussion has been closed.
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