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Asti strike action

12467…14

Comments

  • #92
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Irish teachers are amongst the the best on the planet despite having one of the lowest investment rates in the OECD. Irish teachers are not babysitters.

    We will uphold our already diminished conditions as they are rather than letting them deteriorate to the point where every second newspaper article is lamenting the state of the sector (which is the position currently held by the HSE).

    Right...that's some enormous pedestal.


  • #93
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    beauf wrote: »
    Have that done that since March? Kids and teens have been hanging around each other all summer. Has it caused a spread. If not why not. We've really only seen an increase since adults increased contact with each. I'm not saying it hasn't happened with younger kids. But its not reflected in the stats. (that we are are aware of).

    Big difference between groups of maybe 5-20 teens hanging out and 30 per class in a school of 500.


  • #94
    jetfiremuck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭jetfiremuck


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Big difference between groups of maybe 5-20 teens hanging out and 30 per class in a school of 500.

    And the heating on full blast windows closed....coming months.


  • #95
    jetfiremuck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭jetfiremuck


    Teachers may have to take kids temps like roll call years ago before class.


  • #96
    terenc
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭terenc


    Mardy Bum wrote: »
    Irish teachers are amongst the the best on the planet despite having one of the lowest investment rates in the OECD. Irish teachers are not babysitters.

    We will uphold our already diminished conditions as they are rather than letting them deteriorate to the point where every second newspaper article is lamenting the state of the sector (which is the position currently held by the HSE).

    Lets face it a lot of Irish parents believe that is exactly what you are "babysitters"


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  • #97
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    What clubs have a few hundred members?

    Most sports clubs are not using changing rooms and kids arrive dressed for the sport in question. Certain schools are still using changing rooms for some reason. This is the problem with local arrangements. One school I know of, in our locality, still use changing rooms, lockers, dont give mask breaks and prohibit class taking place outdoors, seems daft to me


    The pinch points in schools are crowding on buses, changing rooms, corridors, canteens and classrooms. None of these compare to training with 30 kids outdoors during the summer. (most of these areas shud have been addressed but haven't been as far as I can I see)

    Lots of clubs have hundred of members. we have about 80 in the same age group. Multiple that across age groups, then siblings and coaches going between age groups. You do training or matches, you have them all in close physical contact. Breathing hard touching the same ball and each other.

    If there are schools insisting not taking any preoccupations, doing a load of stupid things that you mention, and going on as normal, that really their own fault, no one else's.

    Our schools have taken a load of precautions. They've worked their asses off. They aren't giving up a the first hurdle, they are giving it a go, if it becomes a problem they are adjusting and changing to suit. If there's a close contact getting tested, that class stops until they get the all clear then resume. Its not been perfect. Some teachers disappeared, some were very engaged online. Mixed bag. Same in people jobs and work I'm sure.

    If you are in school that is not being supportive and you have genuine underlying issues, then you have every right to feel aggrieved and take steps to limit your risk. That is only reasonable.


  • #98
    um7y1h83ge06nx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    I wonder is a rethink needed. Down through the years some teachers have felt underpaid with poor benefits and poor working conditions.

    There is no point in being miserable in a job, life is too short.. Should the government fund the retraining of teachers who may want to explore other career paths? Completely voluntary but this assistance might be appreciated.

    For instance I know a woodwork teacher that retrained as a software developer. But he was young and single so could afford to go back to college.


  • #99
    Polka_Dot
    Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Polka_Dot


    beauf wrote: »
    Have that done that since March? Kids and teens have been hanging around each other all summer. Has it caused a spread. If not why not. We've really only seen an increase since adults increased contact with each. I'm not saying it hasn't happened with younger kids. But its not reflected in the stats. (that we are are aware of).

    Even if the situations were comparable, and if children did not pass it to each other (there is ever growing evidence that this is not the case), we are now looking at a situation where children and adults are mixing. Schools are doing their best to keep teachers and students at a distance, but what if a teacher were to cause an outbreak in a school?


  • #100
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,475 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    jetfiremuck wrote: »
    And the heating on full blast windows closed....coming months.

    Parents have already been told that their child should have extra layers to wear over the winter as windows and doors will be open.


  • #101
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Big difference between groups of maybe 5-20 teens hanging out and 30 per class in a school of 500.

    If its a big difference we'll see it in the stats. I'm not saying there isn't a difference. I'm just saying you'll only know from looking at the numbers.

    We already saw this back in June in younger people. You can see they'd stopped taking basic precautions..

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/more-than-a-third-of-new-ireland-covid-19-cases-among-young-dr-tony-holohan-1006786.html


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  • #102
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Polka_Dot wrote: »
    Even if the situations were comparable, and if children did not pass it to each other (there is ever growing evidence that this is not the case), we are now looking at a situation where children and adults are mixing. Schools are doing their best to keep teachers and students at a distance, but what if a teacher were to cause an outbreak in a school?

    Then they'll have to rethink it.


  • #103
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    terenc wrote: »
    Lets face it a lot of Irish parents believe that is exactly what you are "babysitters"

    I think that diminishes the role school plays not simply in education but how it effects the wider economy.


  • #104
    Polka_Dot
    Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Polka_Dot


    beauf wrote: »
    Then they'll have to rethink it.

    Rethink what? What do you suggest we do instead?


  • #105
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    beauf wrote: »
    Lots of clubs have hundred of members. we have about 80 in the same age group. Multiple that across age groups, then siblings and coaches going between age groups. You do training or matches, you have them all in close physical contact. Breathing hard touching the same ball and each other.

    If there are schools insisting not taking any preoccupations, doing a load of stupid things that you mention, and going on as normal, that really their own fault, no one else's.

    Most sports don't require everyone to be in close contact bar who you might be marking and a handful of others. Certainly not 80 in close contact.

    I'd blame the guidelines allowing scope for some clown managers to interpret them as the see fit.


  • #106
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Polka_Dot wrote: »
    Rethink what? What do you suggest we do instead?

    Well we could go back to lock down and distance learning.

    Only this time, identify the teachers and schools who have negligible contact with their pupils and penalize them.


  • #107
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    Most sports don't require everyone to be in close contact bar who you might be marking and a handful of others. Certainly not 80 in close contact.

    I'd blame the guidelines allowing scope for some clown managers to interpret them as the see fit.

    I'm not entirely sure if you are serious.

    They train in close contact. They have tackle all over the pitch and if you see younger kids play its like a scrum, in a big huddle. That that repeats in every group. Its also airborne and you are running through each others air.


  • #108
    Polka_Dot
    Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭Polka_Dot


    beauf wrote: »
    Well we could go back to lock down and distance learning.

    Only this time, identify the teachers and schools who have negligible contact with their pupils and penalize them.

    Now you're getting it - there needs to be something in place for these situations and at present there isn't. It's just not good enough to say that kids have been mixing since March so it's all fine. This is a totally different situation, where we have received very little clarity and where things continue to be muddied. Regarding your second point, I really don't think you can penalise schools who are trying their best but where the guidelines are nearly impossible to implement.


  • #109
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Get Real wrote: »
    Prison officers that have been on top of inmates without equipment/proper ppe.

    Gardai arresting a shoplifter or drug dealer or being spat at, with a lack of ppe or sitting with a mental health person for hours. General body searching and bodily fluids.

    A clerical officer sitting in a courtroom for 7 or 8 hours calling 80plus people.

    A Dublin bus driver.

    Hospital staff/fire brigade (although in fairness these were prioritised with ppe)

    There are going to be scenarios that the covid recommendations don't fit all boxes. You're not going to have it 100% great. In the classroom it's insofar as practicable. Which isn't ideal.

    I agree there are issues for teachers, but disagree there's no comparison. There's plenty of comparison with other sectors that have been dealing with this on an ad hoc basis since early March.

    Even in IT lots of companies took in hundred of old dirty laptops, and reconditioned and repurposed them back out to staff WFH. Any PC or laptop sucked in air and dusk, then blows it out again. Imagine the IT gear in a hospital. Same thing in cars.


  • #110
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    beauf wrote: »
    Even in IT lots of companies took in hundred of old dirty laptops, and reconditioned and repurposed them back out to staff WFH. Any PC or laptop sucked in air and dusk, then blows it out again. Imagine the IT gear in a hospital. Same thing in cars.
    From HSE website:

    Coronavirus can survive for:

    up to 72 hours on plastic and stainless steel
    less than 4 hours on copper
    less than 24 hours on cardboard


  • #111
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Polka_Dot wrote: »
    Now you're getting it - there needs to be something in place for these situations and at present there isn't. It's just not good enough to say that kids have been mixing since March so it's all fine. This is a totally different situation, where we have received very little clarity and where things continue to be muddied. Regarding your second point, I really don't think you can penalise schools who are trying their best but where the guidelines are nearly impossible to implement.

    That's just a strawman. No one said it was fine. People are identifying problems as they are found then dealing with them.

    <snip trolling dig at teachers>

    if 3 weeks are not long enough to have stats to work, off. What is a potential strike based on?


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  • #112
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    beauf wrote: »

    Our schools have taken a load of precautions. They've worked their asses off. They aren't giving up a the first hurdle, they are giving it a go, if it becomes a problem they are adjusting and changing to suit. If there's a close contact getting tested, that class stops until they get the all clear then resume.

    That's not what's happening on the ground if you go back and read the thread. My school had a case, HSE told us the student had no close contacts in the school so no further testing needed. Other schools get shut down/have whole classes sent home. There are huge inconsistencies, and seemingly it doesn't seem to matter if the student had close contacts outside the school that attend the same school as them, once they weren't within 2 metres of them for 15 minutes during the school day.

    This was not a decision taken by the school, this was a decision from the HSE.


  • #113
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    That's not what's happening on the ground if you go back and read the thread. My school had a case, HSE told us the student had no close contacts in the school so no further testing needed. Other schools get shut down/have whole classes sent home. There are huge inconsistencies, and seemingly it doesn't seem to matter if the student had close contacts outside the school that attend the same school as them, once they weren't within 2 metres of them for 15 minutes during the school day.

    This was not a decision taken by the school, this was a decision from the HSE.

    ..and did you have a lot, a few or any other cases in the same class the student.


  • #114
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    beauf wrote: »
    ..and did you have a lot, a few or any other cases in the same class the student.

    It was this week, so we'll have to wait and see. As I said, we were told no further testing so we have no idea.


  • #115
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,982 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Just what the country needs, a teachers strike which causes students to miss more school time and forces parents to take time off work. Grandparents won’t be there to help out this time.

    Tone deaf guys. I cannot see public sympathy coming down on your side.


  • #116
    jimmytwotimes 2013
    Registered Users Posts: 4,763 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    beauf wrote: »
    I'm not entirely sure if you are serious.

    They train in close contact. They have tackle all over the pitch and if you see younger kids play its like a scrum, in a big huddle. That that repeats in every group. Its also airborne and you are running through each others air.

    18-times less likely to catch it outdoors. Presume this training is outdoors.

    Ye hardly drop a ball in the middle of them all and let them chase after the ball. Plenty drills and games can be done with a few footballs to separate a large session.


  • #117
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Just what the country needs, a teachers strike which causes students to miss more school time and forces parents to take time off work. Grandparents won’t be there to help out this time.

    Tone deaf guys. I cannot see public sympathy coming down on your side.

    Why should teachers put themselves in danger in unsafe working conditions that breach every recommended NPHET guideline?

    If it was a case of my health, or some parents having to look after their own children, then I know what I'd do.


  • #118
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    rainbowtrout wrote: »
    It was this week, so we'll have to wait and see. As I said, we were told no further testing so we have no idea.

    Do you not know of any one who has had it, or been tested for it? Outside of schools. I know a good few.


  • #119
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,453 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    In terms of funding, information, precautions, protection, testing, planning and support schools are the next nursing homes.

    That’s the message that needs to be gotten across.

    Unfortunately it took excessive deaths for the authorities to wake up to the nursing home’s problem, I fear schools will be the same.


  • #120
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »
    18 less likely to catch it outdoors. Presume this training is outdoors.

    Ye hardly drop a ball in the middle of them all and let them chase after the ball. Plenty drills and games can be done with a few footballs to separate a large session.

    There are certain ways to think outside the box.

    You don't need to have people in changing rooms in schools either, you can do PE outside.

    https://extra.ie/2020/09/20/news/irish-news/school-outside-lessons-dublin


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  • #121
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    In terms of funding, information, precautions, protection, testing, planning and support schools are the next nursing homes.

    That’s the message that needs to be gotten across.

    Unfortunately it took excessive deaths for the authorities to wake up to the nursing home’s problem, I fear schools will be the same.

    There is a slight difference in demographics between schools and nursing homes. In generally healthy younger people vs old often sick people.


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