False rape accusation...who would you believe?

iptba · 22-09-2017 10:13pm

I recall a couple of threads to discuss this issue in detail. But a quick check suggests there have been no posts to them for a while so I thought I would post this here.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/obama-campus-assault-guidance-gets-scrapped-under-trump/ar-AAsm0XG

Obama campus assault guidance gets scrapped under Trump

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump administration on Friday scrapped Obama-era guidance on investigating campus sexual assault, replacing it with new interim instructions allowing universities to decide which standard of evidence to use when handling complaints.

Education Secretary Betsy DeVos has said the Obama rules were unfairly skewed against the students accused of assault.

"This interim guidance will help schools as they work to combat sexual misconduct and will treat all students fairly," DeVos said in a statement.

"Schools must continue to confront these horrific crimes and behaviors head-on. There will be no more sweeping them under the rug. But the process also must be fair and impartial, giving everyone more confidence in its outcomes," she said.

DeVos' temporary guidance allows colleges the freedom to decide which standards of evidence they want to use when investigating complaints of sexual assault. Under Obama's instructions from 2011 and 2014, colleges were told to use "the preponderance of the evidence" standards, while DeVos lets colleges choose between that standard and "the clear and convincing evidence standard," which is harder to meet.

The temporary guidance will be in place while the Education Department gathers comments and comes up with new rules.

sheroman01 · 22-09-2017 10:19pm

When I heard the Chad Evans case, I thought to myself, f*ck, this happens all the time. This happens so commonly. But he got done for it. Probably because he was a footballer. I felt sorry for the guy. Anything I voiced my opinion on this, I was slated, they couldn't believe I was defending a racist. As if they knew. Delighted he ended up being acquitted in the end.

silverharp · 23-09-2017 9:40am

iptba wrote: »

I recall a couple of threads to discuss this issue in detail. But a quick check suggests there have been no posts to them for a while so I thought I would post this here.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/obama-campus-assault-guidance-gets-scrapped-under-trump/ar-AAsm0XG

The "preponderance of evidence" standard has been replaced with a "clear and convincing" one for university sexual assault investigations, so thats a positive

Wibbs · 23-09-2017 10:27pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Pathathic sentence for this one:

Aye OP, but at least she received a custodial sentence. It's not so long ago that she wouldn't have. There was another case recently of false rape accusation and she got sent down too. It might be early days yet and as a crime it's a real curse to pin down the truth, on both sides, but it does show that at least sometimes it is taken more seriously.

amtc · 24-09-2017 1:50am

I was on a jury in 2004 where a 17 year old boy was accused of raping a 15 year old girl. Legally we had to find him guilty of sexual assault but we could not reach a verdict on rape so were discharged. He was re tried and again a hung jury.

We were excluded from hearing evidence for a day and neither gave evidence. Turned out in second trial that the two were engaged and at second trial she had baby and was pregnant.

No idea how it got to court. Always thought odd her parents not there.

iptba · 15-12-2017 10:13pm

(UK)

Student Liam Allan 'betrayed' after rape trial collapse

A man whose rape trial collapsed after detectives failed to disclose vital evidence to the defence said he felt "betrayed" by police and the CPS.

Liam Allan was charged with 12 counts of rape and sexual assault but his trial collapsed after police were ordered to hand over phone records.

The 22-year-old student said his life had been "flipped upside down" and he wanted lessons to be learned.

The Met Police said it was "urgently reviewing this investigation".

The case against Mr Allan at Croydon Crown Court was dropped after three days when the evidence on a computer disk containing 40,000 messages revealed the alleged victim pestered him for "casual sex".

continues:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42366629

iptba · 18-12-2017 4:11am

iptba wrote: »

(UK)

continues:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42366629

'It wasn't against my will': Text message that irrefutably cleared an innocent student of rape is revealed as he vows to SUE police and CPS over his bungled case

- Liam Allan, 22, was 'dragged through hell' for two years while accused of rape

- Case against him collapsed when messages proving his innocence were found

- Mr Allan plans to sue the police and CPS for their bungled handling of the case

- A message from the alleged victim made before her complaint cleared Mr Allan

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5187749/Student-wrongly-accused-rape-plans-sue-CPS.html

iptba · 14-03-2018 4:16am

Woman found guilty of making false report of rape gets suspended sentence

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-found-guilty-of-making-false-report-of-rape-gets-suspended-sentence-36702444.html

PeterParker957 · 14-03-2018 2:50pm

iptba wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/woman-found-guilty-of-making-false-report-of-rape-gets-suspended-sentence-36702444.html

Sentence should be the same for making a false allegation as committing the offence of rape IMO.

iptba · 31-03-2018 2:50am

This article doesn't give much information to help decide who might be right but it is interesting to see another outcome of such cases:

Female blogger is ordered to pay US Army colonel she accused of rape $8.4million in damages after he claimed the false allegations cost him a sparkling military career

Susan Shannon, 52, who now lives in Everett, Washington, first alleged that she was sexually assaulted by Army Colonel David 'Wil' Riggins in 1986

She said she waited three decades to come forward about her experience because of the army's 'code of silence'

But Riggins, also 52, who vehemently denied the claims, said the 'false' allegations had cost him a sparkling military career

By Harvey Day For Mailonline

2017

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4793030/Woman-pay-Army-colonel-accused-rape-8-4million.html

Becks610 · 01-04-2018 10:20pm

sheroman01 wrote: »

When I heard the Chad Evans case, I thought to myself, f*ck, this happens all the time. This happens so commonly. But he got done for it. Probably because he was a footballer. I felt sorry for the guy. Anything I voiced my opinion on this, I was slated, they couldn't believe I was defending a racist. As if they knew. Delighted he ended up being acquitted in the end.

Was the alleged victim found to have made a false allegation? I know he was acquitted on re trial but don’t know the full details and a google search didn’t locate it.

silverharp · 02-04-2018 11:15am

also One of the English papers is reporting that she(DPP Alison Saunders) is not going to have her contract extended when it expires this year despite a request from her to extend it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5569145/Met-abandons-policy-automatically-believing-rape-complainants.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK

Scotland Yard abandons policy of automatically believing rape complainants as commissioner Cressida Dick says 'a clumsy misunderstanding is no police matter'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5569145/Met-abandons-policy-automatically-believing-rape-complainants.html#ixzz5BVbbR2UX
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

otto_26 · 04-04-2018 1:58pm

This is an important topic but the sad thing about this thread is you won't find any of the usual men bashing members in this thread they don't want to know, the woman is always the victim.

The only reason a real rape victim has to go through hell and back in court to get justice is solely at the feet of woman, every year thousands of woman all over the world falsely accuse men of rape and get caught lying in court.

Sadly, for a lot of woman in Ireland their anger towards the recent rape trial is not on the crime itself but on the gender. They are not interested in the facts of the case just that the men are guilty.

My female first cousin is on way more money than me because she worked hard in school and works harder at her job she doesn't get paid more than me because she's a woman. There seems to be this new fad going around Ireland now where woman are starting to suggest they could have been "president but the white man beat me down." (Nice lazy excuse for their failings)

People like Judge Judy have no time for feminists because she knows if you work hard no one stops you from reaching the top.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhktNOx_Le4

Becks610 · 06-04-2018 2:25pm

Do thousands of women all over the world make false allegations though? I would be interested to see the stats on this?

Wibbs · 06-04-2018 3:18pm

Reliable stats would be almost impossible to gather B. Who is going to admit it? Going on trial results alone won't tell you much. Not guilty doesn't always mean innocent, the evidence could be lacking. It's much like the 1 in 4/5/6 women have been sexually assaulted stat, based on extremely thin evidence(the original Koss study was a joke). Ditto for the "only [insert percentage here] of rapes get guilty verdicts".

....... · 06-04-2018 3:28pm

This post has been deleted.

otto_26 · 06-04-2018 8:49pm

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

Under heading Journal of Forensic Psychology (2017) around 5,000 false rape allegations in USA every year according to FBI.

Sad that because of these horrible woman real victims have to go through hell in court and real rapists get off scott free.

iptba · 06-04-2018 9:14pm

otto_26 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

Under heading Journal of Forensic Psychology (2017) around 5,000 false rape allegations in USA every year according to FBI.

Sad that because of these horrible woman real victims have to go through hell in court and real rapists get off scott free.

Also sad, of course, for the people falsely accused.

otto_26 · 06-04-2018 9:22pm

iptba wrote: »

Also sad, of course, for the people falsely accused.

Even sadder than it seems to be just all men chatting in his thread, while all the woman have their pitchforks out in other threads.

iptba · 06-04-2018 9:37pm

Flanagan to review all aspects of sexual assault trials
Minister for Justice to consider allowing rape victims to have own legal representation
Mon, Apr 2, 2018, 01:00

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/flanagan-to-review-all-aspects-of-sexual-assault-trials-1.3447539

Speaking to The Irish Times, Mr Flanagan said there was a more robust system in place in the Republic than that in Northern Ireland.

However, he believed it was appropriate to review all aspects of how “such deeply sensitive trials are conducted” and whether further protections should be offered to a victim of sexual assault.

Currently, rape victims act as witnesses in the State’s prosecution but are not entitled to their own legal representation, and this will come up for consideration.

I'm not sure whether the "victim" word was used by the Minister or chosen by the journalist/newspaper. It is not a neutral word as the complainant isn't necessarily a victim.

iptba · 09-04-2018 11:40pm

Rape victims can find court worse than attack – report
Rape Crisis Network Ireland group calls for ‘radical’ alternatives to trial-based procedure

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/rape-victims-can-find-court-worse-than-attack-report-1.3454813

I've no idea whether these proposals might make it more difficult for defendants to defend themselves. I am somewhat suspicious when rape crisis groups make proposals as they, I presume, are more concerned about the complainant than about the defendant.

Outlaw Pete · 10-04-2018 12:48am

Becks610 wrote: »

Was the alleged victim found to have made a false allegation?

She never made an allegation of rape.

Her account was that she woke up in the hotel the next morning and did not know where she was. So she went down to reception to ask them if they knew who had brought her to the hotel and also if they knew where her handbag was (she couldn't find it). Later that night she contacted the police to report her bag stolen, told them that the last thing she could remember was eating pizza in a Kebab shop and that she felt that her drink must have been spiked. Toxicology reports however only found cocaine and cannabis. The police brought the lads in and after they told them that they had sex with the woman, they were both charged with rape.

iptba · 18-04-2018 3:22am

A rape trial is not a public entertainment. Chiefly, though, and I've kept this for the last, what dismayed me most about this case was the response of many so-called feminists.

I regard myself as a feminist. So feminist, in fact - such a believer in equality - that I actually believe women too can lie.

In my view when we get to the stage where we feel compelled to "believe her" just because of her gender, we haven't just lost the plot.

We've lost sight of the whole concept of justice. And, yes, of course those who complain of sexual assault should be treated gently. But questions that need to be asked must be asked.

Justice must be done. Justice should not be gender specific.

One of the telling responses to this case has been the very many women - young women especially - who have expressed concern about the refusal of the social media gauleiters to respect the findings of the jury.

So no, this hasn't been a case that pitched women against men. It's not a "women's issue", it's a wider justice issue. It's been a case about where we, each of us, believe fairness lies.

From:
https://www.msn.com/en-ie/sport/rugby-union/were-ireland-and-ulster-rugby-chiefs-right-to-sack-jackson-and-olding/ar-AAvYw92

iptba · 04-06-2018 11:05pm

Justice Minister Charlie Flanagan is considering the introduction of advocates who would attend court to assist alleged rape victims in the wake of the recent high-profile trial in Belfast.

[..]

Under the new procedures, defendants in rape and other sexual-offences cases who choose to act as their own legal representatives no longer have the automatic right to directly cross-examine their alleged victim. It is now up to the judge to decide if this will be allowed, with free legal aid being offered to defendants who have been refused permission to conduct cross-examinations themselves.

From:
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/alleged-rape-victims-to-get-support-in-court-in-wake-of-belfast-case-36974076.html

KrustyUCC · 05-06-2018 4:55pm

HOW MANY LIVES RUINED? Nearly FIFTY rape cases abandoned in just 2 months – and 14 men released from prison – after CPS found to have withheld vital evidence in inquiry

The Crown Prosecution Service launched a review of every rape case after a number of high-profile cases collapsed

After reviewing every single ongoing rape case, they stopped 47 where the facts hadn't been disclosed properly.

In each of those cases, the defendants should have been told earlier that police had found evidence which suggested they were not guilty.

In the wake of the probe, it has emerged:

More than a dozen suspects were in JAIL at the time they were cleared of wrongdoing
Prosecutors failed to find phone data which could have exonerated alleged rapists
London was the worst-hit area with half of the cleared suspects coming from the capital
Police will need extra training to help them spot cases which shouldn't go forward
Chief prosecutor Alison Saunders is being blamed for encouraging sloppy practices

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6455022/cps-rape-cases-collapse-new-evidence-disclosure/

iptba · 07-06-2018 3:42pm

It will be interesting to see how this goes:

Identity of sex offenders to be revealed
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/identity-of-sex-offenders-to-be-revealed-471591.html

A Department of Justice spokesperson said last night the move will be targeted specifically at serious sex offenders who have left prison and will only be used in extremely rare circumstances.

The decision is likely to lead to support and criticism in equal measure, with victims and families expected to welcome the increased transparency and civil rights groups likely to raise concerns over the increased potential for vigilantism.

iptba · 15-07-2018 1:06am

https://twitter.com/meetgoogle/status/1016554157912682496
Ad does not seem to be specific to any one type of false reporting, but still good to see. This is in Manchester in place you can't see that.

15-07-2018 9:28am

iptba wrote: »

https://twitter.com/meetgoogle/status/1016554157912682496
Ad does not seem to be specific to any one type of false reporting, but still good to see. This is in Manchester in place you can't see that.

TBH, I don't like these kind of ads. There's just too much space for people to criticise, and gives permission to paste up a guys face with rapist or child molester written all over it. And then in smaller writing a disclaimer.

iptba · 22-07-2018 1:52pm

'I lost everything': Victim criticises CPS over evidence failures

A man cleared of rape after vital evidence was released just days before his trial warns of the consequences of official blunders.

https://news.sky.com/story/cps-boss-saunders-criticised-over-rape-case-evidence-failings-11442928

Mr Armstrong said he had a promising career, but "overnight that exploded".

He said: "I lost my job, I lost my home, I lost everything.

"The consequences when this goes wrong are devastating.

iptba · 22-07-2018 1:56pm

Director of public prosecutions criticised for 'insufficient leadership' over failings that saw evidence withheld from defence lawyers

'Delayed and collapsed trials that result from disclosure errors only service to put a further strain on already tight resources'

Lizzie Dearden Home Affairs Correspondent
@lizziedearden
2 days ago

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/director-of-public-prosecutions-over-longterm-failings-that-saw-vital-evidence-withheld-from-defence-a8455611.html

Police are legally obliged to examine all evidence and pass it on, whether it supports or hinders prosecution, but have been accused of “unconscious bias” against suspects by the Criminal Bar Association.

Mr Allan’s alleged victim had told friends she wanted and enjoyed sex she later reported as rape.

Later that month, a man who had been in prison for rape for four years was released after the discovery of messages showing the sex was consensual.

False rape accusation...who would you believe?

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