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Advice for Carrauntoohil

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Comments

  • #62
    Charlie19
    Registered Users Posts: 11,713 ✭✭✭✭Charlie19


    If going up during a weekend it tends to be very busy, most people generally head up via cronnans yard and take the most straight forward route that takes you up to the Devils ladder, when you reach the top of the ladder you then head up to the peak which is on your right.

    I agree with the other posts about visability, the cloud cover can become very thick very quickly and could become very dangerous on the descent.


  • #63
    Jovetic
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Jovetic


    So if there's loads at the weekend going up, and the weather looks like it could be good like today, is there not safety in numbers finding our way back down :confused:

    cheers


  • #64
    BarryD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    You'll just have to make a judgement call for yourself :) No point asking here whether you should go or not - hillwalking is an adventure sport at the end of the day and you have to take responsibility for yourself!

    If you do decide to go, get an early start as it's a good climb up and it's getting dark now at 7ish. Carry good warm and windproof clothes, hat and be prepared to turn back if in doubt.


  • #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Jovetic wrote: »
    So if there's loads at the weekend going up, and the weather looks like it could be good like today, is there not safety in numbers finding our way back down :confused:

    cheers

    If the weather is good and the forecast is good, well then you might find it okay to head up and down and rely on sight to guide you. But following a group in mist can be risky, they might be heading off across Caher Ridge for example taking you well away from the routes down. After about 30 times on the summit I still have say it can be confusing coming off the summit in mist, the routes down the first hundred metres going to the Devils Ladder and on across to Caher look similar.

    Try this, much better at analysing the effect of height in weather patterns, don't rely on Met Eaireann's guide to whats happening 1,000 metres below you to tell you cold, rainfall etc. at the top of Carrauntoohil.

    http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Carrauntoohil/forecasts/1038


  • #66
    pavb2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,890 ✭✭✭pavb2


    I was thinking of doing this week after next but after reading this thread might give it a miss.

    I've done Croagh Patrick a few times and you can't really get lost up and down but I'm Not really used to reading maps or using a compass so this might be a bit too much I would probably need to do it with a group.

    Anyhow I'll do some more research.


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  • #67
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    pavb2 wrote: »
    I was thinking of doing this week after next but after reading this thread might give it a miss.

    I've done Croagh Patrick a few times and you can't really get lost up and down but I'm Not really used to reading maps or using a compass so this might be a bit too much I would probably need to do it with a group.

    Anyhow I'll do some more research.
    Danger is always exaggerated in this forum, you'd swear there were dead bodies all over Lugnaquilla like on Everest the way people go on, just do it, its a great day out, the drive down there is as dangerous as the climb.


  • #68
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,956 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Thargor wrote: »
    Danger is always exaggerated in this forum, you'd swear there were dead bodies all over Lugnaquilla like on Everest the way people go on, just do it, its a great day out, the drive down there is as dangerous as the climb.

    Danger is not exaggerated on here, not in the least. Caution and care, well you can't have enough of that in the outdoors. We've all seen people do irresponsible things even on minor walks; some environs need a lot more care than others and the likes of Lug and the McGiddy's need rather a lot of care. Be thankful that there are a few experts here to share their knowledge.


  • #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thargor wrote: »
    Danger is always exaggerated in this forum, you'd swear there were dead bodies all over Lugnaquilla like on Everest the way people go on, just do it, its a great day out, the drive down there is as dangerous as the climb.

    From 10 months back...
    Thargor wrote: »
    Im dying to climb it again now, never did it in Winter...

    The emphasis is mine...

    Oh the confidence of inexperience! Climbing is like driving, the more you do it, the more careful you become while boy racers whizz around without a care. But have to concede I was like that too at the start. In my first 10 or so Carrauntoohil climbs I'd have gone without a map or a compass, the clothes would be inappropriate and so on. From now on is precisely the time you find out why one should be careful...


  • #70
    BarryD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    Thargor wrote: »
    Danger is always exaggerated in this forum, you'd swear there were dead bodies all over Lugnaquilla like on Everest the way people go on, just do it, its a great day out, the drive down there is as dangerous as the climb.

    Like I say above, people have to make their own judgement calls and take responsibility for themselves. Hillwalking is not a very risky activity overall but you can get into tricky situations from time to time. And know how to get out of them.

    What gets up my goat are people who blithely take on walks or climbs beyond their experience, get into a spot of bother, pull out the mobile phone and have others to come and dig them out of the unnecessary situation they've put themselves in. Not that people shouldn't call mountain rescue in an emergency, but self reliance should always be the first instinct.


  • #71
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Thargor wrote: »
    Danger is always exaggerated in this forum, you'd swear there were dead bodies all over Lugnaquilla like on Everest the way people go on, just do it, its a great day out, the drive down there is as dangerous as the climb.
    People who haven't a clue go up and down Lug and Carrauntoohil every week and have a great time. Is it sensible though? No. If they got into trouble would they be able to get out of it? Usually only by relying on others to help them. Most people on this forum will have had the experience of people coming up to them asking them whether we could lead them down off a mountain - if you are relying on the generosity of others to keep you safe you really shouldn't be there in the first place.

    Getting lost on a mountain isn't like getting lost on a nice canal walk or in the carpark of your local Tesco, you could in certain circumstances end up dead. If someone comes on this forum and asks whether they should climb a mountain which is slightly above their skill level, the answer will almost always be "you'll probably be fine, but I wouldn't advise it until you build up your skills, get a guide or go with a group that knows what they are doing".


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  • #72
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,418 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    hmmm wrote: »
    Most people on this forum will have had the experience of people coming up to them asking them whether we could lead them down off a mountain - if you are relying on the generosity of others to keep you safe you really shouldn't be there in the first place.
    I've had this experience on Lug many times, and have also had people follow me off even if I'm heading off in a direction that 90+% of the people up there wouldn't normally be going and had to return to the summit with them and show them the correct way.

    I've seen a map the Glen of Imaal MRT have where all their call-outs are marked, and apart from a cluster around Glendalough, the majority of call-outs are on Lug, mostly people who've come off the wrong way and ended up in the firing range potentially amongst unexploded ordnance.


  • #73
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    From 10 months back...



    The emphasis is mine...

    Oh the confidence of inexperience! Climbing is like driving, the more you do it, the more careful you become while boy racers whizz around without a care. But have to concede I was like that too at the start. In my first 10 or so Carrauntoohil climbs I'd have gone without a map or a compass, the clothes would be inappropriate and so on. From now on is precisely the time you find out why one should be careful...
    Well done detective but what is the point in digging up that that post when its practically still summer weather out there and not even Winter for another few weeks? Dont worry about my abilities detective Ive done Mount Snowden in November among many others including all of Wicklow in the snow, Ive missed out on Carantouhill in winter due to lack of free time not terror at its mighty slopes :D

    The hand-wringing you get on this forum about hillwalking in Ireland is hilarious compared to when you actually get out there and meet pensioners and children walking their dogs at the "peaks" if anything in Ireland could even be called that, how many deaths a year do you get on Irish mountains? Zero?


  • #74
    BarryD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭BarryD


    Thargor wrote: »
    .. how many deaths a year do you get on Irish mountains? Zero?

    Ah, you're skating on thin ice there Thargor :) People certainly do die on the Irish Hills - have you never seen the memorials? Heard the news? As to the exact numbers, I'm sure someone from the MR fraternity will fill in.

    Of course the ratio of deaths and mishaps is very low compared to the numbers who happily tramp the hills. But it does happen.


  • #75
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,418 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    All you need to do is look at the call-out stats on websites or Facebook pages of some of the MRT's in Ireland to see that many "mishaps" do indeed occur, and if it weren't for the efforts of the many volunteers in these organizations, they very well could have resulted in deaths due to hypothermia or exposure. It might still be "summer" going by the calendar, but temperatures at or around zero aren't uncommon at night time at the moment even at modest elevations.

    See https://www.facebook.com/KerryMountainRescueTeam for example.


  • #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thargor wrote: »
    Well done detective but what is the point in digging up that that post when its practically still summer weather out there and not even Winter for another few weeks? Dont worry about my abilities detective Ive done Mount Snowden in November among many others including all of Wicklow in the snow, Ive missed out on Carantouhill in winter due to lack of free time not terror at its mighty slopes :D

    The hand-wringing you get on this forum about hillwalking in Ireland is hilarious compared to when you actually get out there and meet pensioners and children walking their dogs at the "peaks" if anything in Ireland could even be called that, how many deaths a year do you get on Irish mountains? Zero?

    Oh I'm not blaming you for your inexperience at all. And I'm glad you have done "Mount Snowden" (I'm assuming you are referring to Snowdon in Wales) in November. I myself have run it in shorts and a teeshirt so I fully agree that it's very straightforward alright.

    But you must know that the advice to be cautious is not simply to avoid death, it's to avoid dragging out the mountain rescue team to people with sprained ankles, broken bones, suffering from hypothermia, suffering from heart conditions, people who are lost and so on. With your experience I trust you know this but simply forgot when you were being smart about terror on the slopes strewn with dead bodies.

    Now you, who have never been in the Reeks in Winter (and are in no position whatsoever to give any advice about them), may be generous with the time that people give to mountain rescue, but those of us with experience greater than yours would still advise caution.

    PS - acc. to Jim Ryan, there are on average 2 deaths a year on the Reeks, up from an average of 1 every 2 years. There were call outs in September 2014 and April 2013 to fatalities, that does not include those who may get a heart attack or a head injury and die in hospital some time later afaik


  • #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thargor wrote: »
    Lol dont be so snippy and smug because you know Carantouhill, it must have taken you a whole day to acquire such ancient knowledge and skills. We should all chip in and buy you a Ryanair voucher so you can go see a country that actually has mountain climbing instead of the hillwalking we do in Ireland, it might open your eyes and put the terrors of the reeks in perspective.

    2 deaths a year isn't borne out by Google unless they're being covered up by Kerry tourism, got an actual source for that? Even if true that makes it about as dangerous as a day out at a popular beach, nearly the same amount of old grannies and young kids up on Carantouhill as on a beach in my experience aswell :D

    I gave you the source, Jim Ryan. It's in his guide to the Reeks. You want to argue the stats, get on to him. But we can agree that your contention that there are zero deaths is completely wrong anyway, can't we? Do you agree you were wrong now that you've Googled it?

    I am amused at the "snippy and smug" stuff from the poster who thought a reference to some mountain - the name of which he didn't really know - would impress!

    As pretty much every poster has told you since your contribution on the previous page (so even though you say "we", they may not be chipping in with your Ryanair fund suggestion!), it's not about your bravery laughing in the face of death, it's simply consideration for mountain rescue. And all the Lols in the world won't help a poster who has announced he's never even been up the Reeks in winter so can't really comment, but was up Mount Snowysomething once in the cold! Lol indeed!


  • #78
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Well its zero for 2015, Supermacs and going to mass currently more dangerous! Im really sorry the android keyboard put Snowden instead of Snowdon in that post, it completely invalidates my point, stay away OP, think of the mountain rescue having to go out and errrr... do a mountain rescue! Stay away from large bodies of water aswell, I heard up to 2 people drowned last year, think of the lifeboat crews! Carantouhill is not for the likes of you, only elite climbers like Conor74 in his shorts and tshirt! (Ignore all those pensioners and children you see up there, thats just the oxygen deprivation causing hallucinations). 2 whole deaths a year (except this year and last year) at one of the main attractions in the country, when will the government outlaw this death peak? stay away from the Kerry roads leading to the death peak aswell, with 13 dead last year the drive down will be between 6 and 13 times as lethal.


  • #79
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,418 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Thargor wrote: »
    ... think of the mountain rescue having to go out and errrr... do a mountain rescue!
    That's a pretty insulting comment aimed at a dedicated group of people who give up much of their spare time, are constantly on call, all for no payment, and who, yes, actually often risk their own lives to rescue other fellow walkers and climbers.


  • #80
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,248 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Thargor wrote: »
    Lol dont be so snippy and smug because you know Carantouhill, it must have taken you a whole day to acquire such ancient knowledge and skills.


    I think you need to go for a walk, or just put down the computer for a while.

    I know some people who would be experienced hikers who spent a night up on Carrauntoohil. Just got lost in the mist I think and then it got dark. They phoned mountain rescue and told them they were fine and would come down in the morning. They had the right gear to stay warm enough but I dont think it was a pleasant experience all the same and can happen really easily.


  • #81
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Alun wrote: »
    That's a pretty insulting comment aimed at a dedicated group of people who give up much of their spare time, are constantly on call, all for no payment, and who, yes, actually often risk their own lives to rescue other fellow walkers and climbers.
    Exaggerating much? Do please point out the insult, by that logic nobody should go to the beach because the lifeboat crew might have to come out and as the statistics show, the beach is a far far more dangerous place than Irish mountains.


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  • #82
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,418 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Thargor wrote: »
    By that logic nobody should go to the beach because the lifeboat crew might have to come out...
    It's everyone's responsibility to prepare themselves as best they can when engaging in any outdoor activity to avoid having to call on such services by making sure they're properly equipped, properly trained and aware of the risks and of their own capabilities. That's just basic common sense.

    If you don't do this and deliberately ignore warning signs or otherwise act foolishly, causing the voluntary emergency services to be called out to rescue you, be it MRT, Lifeboats or whatever, then in my book you shoulder some of the responsibility should anything happen to them in the execution of their duties.

    Of course, genuine accidents also occur, but preparation is key, and I consider it my duty to minimize those risks as much as possible for their sakes as much as mine.


  • #83
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thargor wrote: »
    Well its zero for 2015, Supermacs and going to mass currently more dangerous! Im really sorry the android keyboard put Snowden instead of Snowdon in that post, it completely invalidates my point, stay away OP, think of the mountain rescue having to go out and errrr... do a mountain rescue! Stay away from large bodies of water aswell, I heard up to 2 people drowned last year, think of the lifeboat crews! Carantouhill is not for the likes of you, only elite climbers like Conor74 in his shorts and tshirt! (Ignore all those pensioners and children you see up there, thats just the oxygen deprivation causing hallucinations). 2 whole deaths a year (except this year and last year) at one of the main attractions in the country, when will the government outlaw this death peak? stay away from the Kerry roads leading to the death peak aswell, with 13 dead last year the drive down will be between 6 and 13 times as lethal.

    Someone seems to be rather very wound up. Is this you not getting "snippy"?

    As you might say yourself..."Lol"...

    Look, I'm a nice guy. If and when you get around to the Reeks in Winter, I'll let you know all about it and give you all the tips you need.


  • #84
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Someone seems to be rather very wound up. Is this you not getting "snippy"?

    As you might say yourself..."Lol"...

    Look, I'm a nice guy. If and when you get around to the Reeks in Winter, I'll let you know all about it and give you all the tips you need.
    Eh? Ah its the tried and trusted After Hours debating strategy when someone is laughing at you, just claim you've upset them and ignore the rest!

    Sorry if I bothered you by pointing out that there is sweet feck all mountain climbing in this country, just hillwalking, and extremely low risk hillwalking at that. I suppose when you're trying to cultivate a mountain man image by walking up Carantouhill 30 times then dissuading people on a bulletin board from doing the same you probably dont want to hear that.

    Do please let us hear your survival tips for Kerry in late Autumn compared to Spring and Summer for the OP though Mountain Man, wear a jacket in case it gets cold? Mobile phone, water and a snack? Wow you should put that in a book before more people die. Lol :D


  • #85
    CardinalJ
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭CardinalJ


    Thargor wrote: »
    just hillwalking, and extremely low risk hillwalking at that.

    Falling from 50m on Lug, Mwelrea, Carruntoohill, Brandon or where ever will kill you and wouldn't be difficult if you didn't know where you were going. I've been at the top of any of the higher 'peaks' in Ireland in clear weather maybe 15/20% of the times I've been up there.

    You're correct in what you're saying about there being more potentially dangerous (higher) mountains in the world, but if you look at recreational walks around most of europe they'll be more clearly marked than in Ireland, so safer. So you can be walking around at 3500m in Switzerland with stable weather and be safer than say Brandon/Mweelrea where the Atlantic changes weather changes every 5 minutes and some trails just aren't marked.

    This week has the first days of the autumn winter where the temp was below 0 at night so it's the time of the year where someone will leave work on a 14 degree Friday and decide to climb/walk/whatever up a mountain and end up at the top in 5 degrees in the cold and mist. I don't think it's unreasonable to warn them that this happens more than half the time you'll go up.


  • #86
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    He's only winding you up now ;)

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88550886&postcount=4
    there was a good track to follow from a large group of people from the slope to the cairn.....it was a lot further from the trail than I remembered and we were really blind at that stage.


  • #87
    Jovetic
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Jovetic


    So yeah, anyways :rolleyes:

    Think I might give it a lash, weather looks good, will leave early. Up the Devils Ladder, maybe zig zag down (how will I know where the zig zag descent is when I get to the top?) Will it take me back to Cronins yard?

    Anyone got a decent map I could print off


  • #88
    CardinalJ
    Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭CardinalJ


    Just don't die for the love of god! I think some people have invested a significant amount of time that you will or won't! Paddy Power are taking bets!


  • #89
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thargor wrote: »
    Eh? Ah its the tried and trusted After Hours debating strategy when someone is laughing at you, just claim you've upset them and ignore the rest!

    Sorry if I bothered you by pointing out that there is sweet feck all mountain climbing in this country, just hillwalking, and extremely low risk hillwalking at that. I suppose when you're trying to cultivate a mountain man image by walking up Carantouhill 30 times then dissuading people on a bulletin board from doing the same you probably dont want to hear that.

    Do please let us hear your survival tips for Kerry in late Autumn compared to Spring and Summer for the OP though Mountain Man, wear a jacket in case it gets cold? Mobile phone, water and a snack? Wow you should put that in a book before more people die. Lol :D

    Snowdon, once, in November...good man...


  • #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    hmmm wrote: »
    He's only winding you up now ;)

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88550886&postcount=4

    Is that the same poster? About the dangers of Lug and his difficulties at the top while sneering about the Reeks and getting so very wound up?


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  • #91
    Jovetic
    Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭Jovetic


    What's the safest descent to get back to Cronin's yard?

    Thinking of going up Brother O'Shea's gully now.


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