Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

John Grenham and the missing census forms

  • 08-03-2016 10:24am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭


    I've just read John Grenham's blog about missing Census forms on the NAI site....http://johngrenham.com/irishroots/?p=127

    What a revelation. Not all census forms hit the online search, but you can find them if you know the general area where the ancestors lived by manipulating the address/URL. Each form has a unique URL so by changing the URL you can move to another form.

    I had long wondered why my great grandfather's household form didn't show up in the search, even though I knew the area where they had lived since the household was listed in the House and Building Return form. I realised from that form that households 1-10 in his village did not appear in the search. However, I was able to find the household form for my great grandfather by manipulating the URL in the address bar using John Grenham's invaluable method.
    " In your browser address-bar, you’ll see something like “census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002500860/”. Just add 1 to that number to go forward a frame and subtract 1 to go back."

    John also lists major omissions from the online census - what a pity the Irish Times no longer publishes his articles, and that NAI didn't install a scroll feature on the census forms....


Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    It's a shame there isn't ongoing maintenance to improve these and other record collections - Tithes for instance.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    A few years ago when I couldn't find a census form for one of my in-laws I just entered his first name for that area and went through them all until I eventually found him. They had misspelled his surname, I never would have found it otherwise.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Another useful trick is to try the surname in the forename box and vice versa.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    I can't find an entire townland but it is not listed on John Grenham's list. I have emailed NAI a couple of times asking if they hold a hard copy/microfiche of the returns for the missing townland but have never received a reply. Any other ideas?


  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Alan259


    montgo wrote: »
    I can't find an entire townland but it is not listed on John Grenham's list. I have emailed NAI a couple of times asking if they hold a hard copy/microfiche of the returns for the missing townland but have never received a reply. Any other ideas?

    Is it the 1901 returns or the 1911 returns or both that are missing?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Just the 1911 Census is missing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Alan259


    montgo wrote: »
    Just the 1911 Census is missing.

    It's possible that the 1911 census returns for that townland might have gotten lost before they were microfilmed or they might have gotten damaged and thus illegible. Did you try going to any of the neighbouring townlands and try John Grenham's URL trick?

    The images of the neighbouring townlands might give you what happened to your townland's returns. At the following link: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000807842/ it actually says that some forms are missing and I'v seen it for returns that were damaged by water, torn, etc. Hope this helps. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Yes I did try the Grenham system but no joy.

    I just wish they would reply to my email enquiry. Thx


  • Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭KildareFan


    What's the name of the townland? Maybe we can play hide and seek.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    might help with the searches ... basic navigator for the 1901 & 1911 census :

    http://irelandgen.com/tools/census_nav.php?rid=000024780

    (click reset to start at a new image)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Kildare, thanks but I've realised that I did ask about the townland before and Shanew condirmed that it wasn't available.

    Shane, many thanks for the link, very handy!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 bartleby101


    Hi folks,
    The original lInk to John Grenham's page posted above seem to be broken. Does he publish a list of missing Townlands from 1911 Census? This would be most interesting.

    Cheers,
    Bart


  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Alan259


    Hi folks,
    The original lInk to John Grenham's page posted above seem to be broken. Does he publish a list of missing Townlands from 1911 Census? This would be most interesting.

    Cheers,
    Bart

    Hi Bart,

    Does this link work for you? http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/irishroots/2016/03/02/the-strange-afterlife-of-the-census-microfilms/


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 bartleby101


    Spot on Alan, many thanks,
    Intriguing find by Mr. Grenham.
    Bart


  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Alan259


    Spot on Alan, many thanks,
    Intriguing find by Mr. Grenham.
    Bart

    Your welcome. :) Hopefully, sometime over the next few years they will be transcribed and searchable like the rest of the census returns. :)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Can anyone please help me to find Monalahy and Newcastle in Co. Cork on the 1901 census?

    They're both in the Greenfort DED for 1911 but neither is there for 1901. Monalahy is also spelled with 2 ees at the end.
    I can't find people I can place in Monalahy in 1911 on 1901 elsewhere.
    Wondering if it's never been microfilmed and hence not digitised?

    Here's the 1901 Greenfort DED.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Can anyone please help me to find Monalahy and Newcastle in Co. Cork on the 1901 census?

    They're both in the Greenfort DED for 1911 but neither is there for 1901. Monalahy is also spelled with 2 ees at the end.
    I can't find people I can place in Monalahy in 1911 on 1901 elsewhere.
    Wondering if it's never been microfilmed and hence not digitised?

    Here's the 1901 Greenfort DED.

    Just ask in the NAI for the microfilm, if it is not on it, they will let you have the actual paper forms.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Not so easy to achieve when one works full-time!

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Note to follow up: those townlands are missing on the online 1901 census but available on microfilm. They're sending me a copy for the 2 families I'm researching.

    Further note: they clarified that the paper returns have been taken off site and are not accessible.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Further note: they clarified that the paper returns have been taken off site and are not accessible.

    Was that recent?

    I was to view some paper originals but a family bereavement meant I never went back to view what I'd ordered.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    They didn't say since when but I suspect it is.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



Advertisement