Drought....Hosepipe Ban.... next they'll be calling for Water meters

dense · 15-07-2018 11:28am

Deleted User wrote: »

No need seeing as I was active on them all. I know what I’m talking about. Those claiming water revenue would only cover admin costs had included the setup costs, which are only a once off cost. Innocent mistake I’m sure.

The revisionism is strong here isn't it?

You may have forgotten that the entire concept spectacularly flunked the "vital" Eurostat test.

Had the government of the day written to Eurostat to assure them that the water conservation grant was a temporary gimmick and low initial water charges were just a ruse to engage initial adopters and that prices would be significantly ramped up after a couple of years, Eurostat might have taken a more sympathetic view.

15-07-2018 11:51am

railer201 wrote: »

It's you who needs to read the article - particularly the summary - which confirms what I was saying as largely true. The water charges as they stood wouldn't do a whole lot more than cover the administration charges.

Even with 100% compliance and no grant? Really? Largely true that there would be at least €6,000,000 extra in the coffers?

Roger Hassenforder · 15-07-2018 12:39pm

dense wrote: »

Aside from all that, the leakage rate keeps going up year on year, not coming down.

So this has been no success story.

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/water-lost-hits-761m-litres-per-day-despite-investment-36786983.html

There's a one over on Twitter must be a right pain in the ar53 for Irish Water
@kennedyanalysis

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mains-supply-awash-with-leaks-behind-dublin-water-shortage-1.3561620?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Jennehy · 15-07-2018 1:00pm

Drought is over as it is after raining, confirmed in weather forum. Hose pipe ban lifted tomorrow hopefully.

my3cents · 15-07-2018 1:05pm

Jennehy wrote: »

Drought is over as it is after raining, confirmed in weather forum. Hose pipe ban lifted tomorrow hopefully.

The hose pipe ban was imposed until the end of the month. Really don't see that changing given the pathetic amount of rain some areas have had.

Jennehy · 15-07-2018 1:12pm

Won’t the yellow warning be gone now surely?

giveitholly · 15-07-2018 1:14pm

Jennehy wrote: »

Won’t the yellow warning be gone now surely?

2-3mm of rain won't alleviate the drought

Topgear on Dave · 15-07-2018 1:19pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

There's a one over on Twitter must be a right pain in the ar53 for Irish Water
@kennedyanalysis

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mains-supply-awash-with-leaks-behind-dublin-water-shortage-1.3561620?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

Emma Kennedy is outraged about the amount of water being wasted and spending 1.3 billion on the pipeline and but does not say how much it would cost to carry out the other option of replacing the leaking network in the eastern region.

dense · 15-07-2018 2:22pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Emma Kennedy is outraged about the amount of water being wasted and spending 1.3 billion on the pipeline and but does not say how much it would cost to carry out the other option of replacing the leaking network in the eastern region.

And the Shannon pipeline scenario crosses her family farmland.

Roger Hassenforder · 15-07-2018 7:03pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Emma Kennedy is outraged about the amount of water being wasted and spending 1.3 billion on the pipeline and but does not say how much it would cost to carry out the other option of replacing the leaking network in the eastern region.

According to that, if IW met their own leakage reduction targets there's be more capacity.

But why invest 1.3billion to pump more water into a sieve?

dense · 15-07-2018 7:30pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

According to that, if IW met their own leakage reduction targets there's be more capacity.

But why invest 1.3billion to pump more water into a sieve?

She's pretty on the mark:

While Irish Water agrees that the water infrastructure needs upgrading in general, reference to leakage was notably absent from its recent statements. More than 600 million litres of water were “being used” in Dublin, it said. “Being used” were its exact words.

No acknowledgement that only about 300 million litres were “being used” in the true sense – the other 300 were “being wasted”, mostly by Irish Water itself.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mains-supply-awash-with-leaks-behind-dublin-water-shortage-1.3561620?mode=amp

15-07-2018 8:10pm

dense wrote: »

She's pretty on the mark:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/mains-supply-awash-with-leaks-behind-dublin-water-shortage-1.3561620?mode=amp

All the more reason for one company to take responsibility for upgrading the infrastructure. This is well under way here in Tipp. Would happen more speedily if the proper funding was available. Metering and paying by use is the most sensible way of achieving this.

Skyrimaddict · 15-07-2018 8:14pm

I worked on a project for Irish water once that cost 2.2m and went nowhere.

Irish water was the biggest waste of money ever, literally hundreds of millions could have gone into infrastructure instead of the farse. They would have caused more leaks as the civil crews doing installs were not well trained to work on older pipes, so damage was inevitable.

I am sick if this country, we can't handle the cold or the heat. You don't hear Lanzarote complaining about water shortages from two weeks sunshine.
Ireland can only handle a mild 16 all year round

UrbanSprawl · 15-07-2018 8:29pm

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I worked on a project for Irish water once that cost 2.2m and went nowhere.

Irish water was the biggest waste of money ever, literally hundreds of millions could have gone into infrastructure instead of the farse. They would have caused more leaks as the civil crews doing installs were not well trained to work on older pipes, so damage was inevitable.

I am sick if this country, we can't handle the cold or the heat. You don't hear Lanzarote complaining about water shortages from two weeks sunshine.
Ireland can only handle a mild 16 all year round

The weather this year has being exceptional,still a great country and people try their best,even people in IW.

Roger Hassenforder · 15-07-2018 8:38pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

All the more reason for one company to take responsibility for upgrading the infrastructure. This is well under way here in Tipp. Would happen more speedily if the proper funding was available. Metering and paying by use is the most sensible way of achieving this.

How're those blue pipes?
Water must be still pi55ing out somewhere , leakage still up despite the "massive" investment!
I wonder was it the rushed privitization conservation metering programme that made absolute 5h1te out of an already fcuked network

dense · 15-07-2018 10:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

All the more reason for one company to take responsibility for upgrading the infrastructure. This is well under way here in Tipp. Would happen more speedily if the proper funding was available. Metering and paying by use is the most sensible way of achieving this.

Tell us much funding you want and what it would translate to in domestic charges?

Say €2bn a year, that would work out at about two grand per household.

I think they're spending about €1.3 or so a year as it is?

I don't really see that being a runner tbh!

GreeBo · 15-07-2018 11:08pm

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I worked on a project for Irish water once that cost 2.2m and went nowhere.

Irish water was the biggest waste of money ever, literally hundreds of millions could have gone into infrastructure instead of the farse. They would have caused more leaks as the civil crews doing installs were not well trained to work on older pipes, so damage was inevitable.

Aren't the exact same people working on the pipes under IW as were under the local authorities?

So who exactly would you like to be fixing the pipes?

Skyrimaddict wrote: »

I am sick if this country, we can't handle the cold or the heat. You don't hear Lanzarote complaining about water shortages from two weeks sunshine.
Ireland can only handle a mild 16 all year round

Extra! Extra!
Country designed to handle average weather!
I'd love to see your reaction to being asked to pay a snow and drought tax, to cover for record breaking extremes we have faced over the last 4 months.
It really just seems like you want someone else to pay for it tbh.

Come back to me when Lanzarote gets 6 weeks of snow and see how they hold up.

Also, considering that Lanzarote residents pay for their water (€1.75 up to 40m3 and €3.69 over that) and are cut off if they dont pay, not to mention that the rate for non residents is €2.69m3 who make up a large % of their population.
It kinda seems to suggest that the reason they dont have a water issue is because they actually pay for the water they use?

Not to mention that they invest heavily in it and have several desalination plants.

dense · 16-07-2018 1:04am

GreeBo wrote: »

I'd love to see your reaction to being asked to pay a snow and drought tax, to cover for record breaking extremes we have faced over the last 4 months.

What records are you referring to?

Contrary to popular belief we have not experienced "record breaking extremes" in recent decades, never mind the last 4 months.

The highest temperature recorded here holds at 33.3°c from 1887 and the worst snowfall event here was in 1947 in terms of loss of life and duration, with snow remaining in parts from mid January to March.

Alf Veedersane · 16-07-2018 1:08am

dense wrote: »

What records are you referring to?

Contrary to popular belief we have not experienced "record breaking extremes" in recent decades, never mind the last 4 months.

The highest temperature recorded here holds at 33.3°c from 1887 and the worst snowfall event here was in 1947 in terms of loss of life and duration, with snow remaining in parts from mid January to March.

Record breaking or not, the weather we have had this year has been extreme in an Irish context.

Roger Hassenforder · 16-07-2018 1:12am

GreeBo wrote: »

Aren't the exact same people working on the pipes under IW as were under the local authorities?
.

Now there's several hundred people filling in spreadsheets, overseeing the councils filling in more spreadsheets and overseeing their own workers and contractors fixing pipes.

sbsquarepants · 16-07-2018 8:14am

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm not at all disagreeing that we should ignore the water that is lost...but we have been losing that water for years, its not whats causing the shortage, its the weather.
You seem to be ignoring the weather (sure its just a bit of Sun) when that's the factor that has changed and caused the issue.

So 2 million+ people saving hundreds of litres per day has no impact?

259,000,000 L/day through leaks
225,000,000 L/day by adults saving half of their usage (3.5M adults & 47,000L yearly allowance based on IW figures)

We can save 259,000,000L/day by spending Billions, or we can save 225,000,000L/day by people using less water for personal use.

But hey, you keep shouting about the leaks!;)

I said a litre here a litre there - you bumped it up to 100's!

But doing so more clearly shows the stupidity of your argument - if every bloody house in the country, connected to the mains, cut their usage in half it would ALMOST do as much good as fixing the leaks.

Why don't you have a little think about that for a bit - maybe say it out loud to yourself to get the full effect of how mental it sounds.

The leaks are clearly the problem - Stevie Wonder on a galloping horse can see that!

whisky_galore wrote: »

A business. They pay for it and have paid for it for years.

No green grass, no business. No one wants to play on dust.

I pay for it and have paid for it for years.

I don't play golf so I couldn't give a rats arse what the courses are like - but why exactly should I care about people I don't know, getting to play a game more than my own back garden?

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Drought is over. Pissing in wesht Clare for hours...weather's crap ;)

Thank god - I was worried about Bob Geldof moving back and organising a relief concert in the phoenix park:D

dense · 16-07-2018 9:22am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Record breaking or not, the weather we have had this year has been extreme in an Irish context.

Try to specific here.
Extremely what?

Record breaking? No.
Unprecedented? No, again.

Extreme weather is a normal occurrence in an Irish context, here is a great link to historic weather events which helps put the typical media hysteria style headlines about extremes into some proper context.

http://www.pascalbonenfant.com/18c/weather.html

Roger Hassenforder · 16-07-2018 11:49am

sbsquarepants wrote: »

But doing so more clearly shows the stupidity of your argument - if every bloody house in the country, connected to the mains, cut their usage in half it would ALMOST do as much good as fixing the leaks.

It's even worse than that I think.

The leakage is so bad (and getting worse!) reduced customer demand might allow IW to lower pressure which would reduce leakage, but as half of it is pi55ing into the ground before it even gets to the customer, reducing one by 50% might not see a reduction of 50% in the other as its a pressurised supply.

GreeBo · 16-07-2018 5:53pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I said a litre here a litre there - you bumped it up to 100's!

But doing so more clearly shows the stupidity of your argument - if every bloody house in the country, connected to the mains, cut their usage in half it would ALMOST do as much good as fixing the leaks.

Why don't you have a little think about that for a bit - maybe say it out loud to yourself to get the full effect of how mental it sounds.

The leaks are clearly the problem - Stevie Wonder on a galloping horse can see that!

I pay for it and have paid for it for years.

Im afraid you are still missing the point.
Say we uncover a rock tomorrow that has thr 5.5Bn that IW say they need.
when exactly do you think we would have the system in tip top shape?
Some time in 2025?
What does that do for the people who are close to being without water?
Exactly nothing.
People reducing their usage right now will hopefully prevent some people having no water. but sure why should you care about anyone else.

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't play golf so I couldn't give a rats arse what the courses are like - but why exactly should I care about people I don't know, getting to play a game more than my own back garden?

That was in response to the "its not the sahara comment" as Im pretty sure you well know.
BTW your "I dont care about anyone else, me me me" posts make you seem about 11.

dense wrote: »

Try to specific here.
Extremely what?

Record breaking? No.
Unprecedented? No, again.

Extreme weather is a normal occurrence in an Irish context,

I'll just leave these here will I?

Met Eireann forecaster, John Eagleton, told the Irish Mirror: “We are certainly into record breaking territory, but whether it will break the absolute record which was recorded in the 1800s in Kilkenny, I’m not sure.

The thermometer at Shannon Airport moved beyond 32 degrees on Thursday, which was the highest June temperature recorded in the State since 1976.

But you fire ahead and deny that there has been anything strange about the weather over the last 6 weeks.

Rubberchikken · 16-07-2018 5:56pm

I never had an issue with water meters or paying for a service.
What i have an issue with is the bonus mentality of the crowd running IW.
From the very beginning this was mentioned. Before thry had even stuck one bloody meter in the ground.

James Brown · 16-07-2018 6:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

All the more reason for one company to take responsibility for upgrading the infrastructure. This is well under way here in Tipp. Would happen more speedily if the proper funding was available. Metering and paying by use is the most sensible way of achieving this.

How about we set up a government department, let's call it, 'the Dept. of the Environment'. And get it to oversee the administration of local authorities as they utilise contractors to carry out a nationwide mains overhaul? I mean we've already got all that in place, but poorly funded.

But no...

We went with a shiny new quango, millions on consultants, crony appointments and deals at massive cost to the taxpayer...and with the exception of meters, what have we got?
IW basically doing what the Dept. of the environment could be doing and LA's overseeing contractors.

Replacing the water mains was an aside to the reasoning for IW. It was/is a con.

dense · 17-07-2018 12:17am

GreeBo wrote: »

I'll just leave these here will I?

But you fire ahead and deny that there has been anything strange about the weather over the last 6 weeks.

Strange weather is subjective, the point I was making is that contrary to the fake news headlines, no records were broken.

And research published in 2016 shows that Ireland is remarkably prone to droughts:

https://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/faculty-social-sciences/news/analysis-historical-records-shows-ireland-prone-drought

The historical records demonstrate that Ireland was subject to persistent multi-season drought episodes in the 1800s, 1820s, 1850s, 1880s and, in the twentieth century, in the 1920s, 1930s, 1950s and 1970s.

And it is predicted that they will continue to happen

Given that long drought events have happened with regularity in the past, there is a high likelihood that they will occur again in future.

Interestingly, that research leaves out 1995 which the EPA reports on as being a drought year in this publication

http://www.google.ie/url?q=https://www.epa.ie/pubs/reports/water/flows/EPA_Assessment_of_1995_Drought2.pdf&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwjn2uiP36TcAhWPTsAKHbKLBpoQFggLMAA&usg=AOvVaw1dOd6c2YPeVKwAw7A2yQH9

So although it doesn't seem like it, there's nothing strange about getting cycles of dry weather here.

sbsquarepants · 17-07-2018 8:10am

GreeBo wrote: »

Im afraid you are still missing the point.
Say we uncover a rock tomorrow that has thr 5.5Bn that IW say they need.
when exactly do you think we would have the system in tip top shape?
Some time in 2025?
What does that do for the people who are close to being without water?
Exactly nothing.
People reducing their usage right now will hopefully prevent some people having no water. but sure why should you care about anyone else..

I'm hearing about these god damn leaks since I could hear - it's the usual bolloxology in this country. Spend money on a report, commission this, committee that - it's nothing but a gravy train. And clowns bending over and taking it up the jaxy over and over again is what keeps it rolling.

Half of the treated water leaking into the ground is unacceptable - that's it, it is unacceptable. Fix the damn things, don't scratch your arse and talk about fixing them!

It has already cost billions to set this fúcking mess up in the first place - what has it achieved? Jobs for the boys, bonuses and pension kitty's - nothing else!

Are you forgetting that we had water in the taps before IW existed or something? Do you think it was put there by the water fairies, who worked for free? It's a quango and that's all it is.

GreeBo wrote: »

That was in response to the "its not the sahara comment" as Im pretty sure you well know.
BTW your "I dont care about anyone else, me me me" posts make you seem about 11..

I don't waste water (or anything else really) - I never have. I'm just not a wasteful person. But I refuse point blank to let my lovely back garden, which I work hard for and paid a lot of money for, whither and die while golf courses are kept a rich emerald green because golfers don't like to play on dust, or shiny new cars are being washed because....business or something. I just won't do it, end of.

My car is 11 years old - it gets washed once a year, the day before it's NCT!

And when you do the maths, it doesn't make a blind bit of difference if I water my plants or if I have a rain water tank or not. The holes in the pipes are too damn big for any amount of rain water tanks to matter. If every house in Dublin had a tank it would barely register!

Yes it all adds up but, and this is the important part, it doesn't add up to anything like the amount we piss away every day!

You need to fix the big problems first - then by all means worry about the little ones. Doing it the other way around is just arse backwards.

I think a bit less panic and a bit more critical thinking would serve you well.

ht9zni1gs28crp · 17-07-2018 9:09am

...

Graces7 · 17-07-2018 9:42am

Nothing we can as individuals do re Irish Water. Everything we as individuals CAN do re saving water in our own lives and situations.

Drought....Hosepipe Ban.... next they'll be calling for Water meters

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