Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.
Recession predictions
Options
Comments
-
Unemployment levels will be succefully reduced by emigration No worries !
The thing is when ellections will come FF/FG/FS will tell
We Did Great Job reducing unemployment lads !
Other words it will be
We did great job get rid of unemployed people !0 -
MDD peaked in 2020 Q1 at 49,464m.
It dropped to 41,456 in Q2.
A drop of 16.2% nominal, 15.7% real.
Will Q3 see MDD back up at 50bn? I don't think so.
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/4b5e5-minister-donohoe-publishes-economic-forecasts-that-will-underpin-budget-2021/
the Department of Finance’s Budget 2021 forecasts show that both COVID-19 and a disorderly end to the ‘transition period’ will have a significant impact on the Irish economy
modified domestic demand – proxy for domestic economy to fall by -6.5 per cent this year
employment set to fall by 13.8 per cent this year this with an annual average unemployment rate of just under 16 per cent this year, and 10.7 per cent in 20210 -
It's unacceptable and inhumane to have any level of lasting long-term-unemployment - doubly so given we barely just got out of that from the previous decade.
A significant portion of upcoming generations are being completely screwed by this - and rewarded with astronomical costs of living to go with not having a job.
A policy of Permanent Full Employment needs to be enacted, with workers transitioning into a government 'employer of last resort' Job Guarantee program when the private sector can't provide for them. There is no end of useful work to be done, and for people to be trained up into doing - with housing being the most immediately obvious and often mentioned example (with plenty more besides that needs doing, still).
Involuntary unemployment must become a thing of the past. Even the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that people have the right to protection against unemployment - so arguably it's a breach of human rights to allow involuntary unemployment (particularly long-term/very-long-term unemployment) to continue.0 -
A fair point, yes, the hit to employment is really bad.
However, unemployment is falling, not rising, the recovery is happening.
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/mue/monthlyunemploymentseptember2020/
Total UN plus COVID unemployment
June = 564k
July = 407k
Aug = 358k
Sep = 343k
Although, the drop in UN is slowing.
Yes that drop is due to the economy opening up again and will vary based on the foot print of the virus. My concern is that sectors of the economy will start to see large scale redundancy due to exports slowing due to uk and other European countries As they will be focusing on domestic economies. And I think these are already in the pipeline and will hit Q1 next year.0 -
paragraph from KBRA rating agency on irish economy published 9th September:
Dual Economy Operating at Different Speeds
Ireland’s dual economy balances an internationally focused and dynamically performing MNE sector that was able to circumvent the pandemic with minimal disruption versus domestic-focused industries that bore the brunt of the lockdown, with demand well below pre-pandemic levels in many sectors. The pandemic’s impact on the labour market is evident, with the upper bound of the CSO’s COVID-19 adjusted unemployment rate at 15.4% in August (albeit much improved from April’s peak of 28.2%) versus the official headline unemployment rate of 5.2%. But the reality of Ireland’s unemployment rate lies somewhere in between. The country’s economic recovery is well underway, but strong performance in the MNE sector and its important contribution to economic activity will minimise the scale of the GDP contraction in headline terms, as the downturn is more pronounced in domestic-focused sectors. The pace of the recovery will be susceptible to the virus progression, global growth performance given Ireland’s small and export-oriented economy, and whether other potential shocks (such as a disorderly no-trade deal Brexit) arrive in the months ahead. MNE performance will be a key factor underpinning Ireland’s economic recovery and, over the medium term, consolidation of the public finances. KBRA’s approach to sovereign credit focuses on the evolution of key credit metrics over a medium-term perspective rather than point-in-time economic performance.
Conclusion
Ireland’s economic model, supported by the significant presence of the MNE sector that was able to adapt quickly to the pandemic with minimal disruption, helped to minimise the scale of the real GDP contraction and positions Ireland as one of the better-performing sovereigns amongst its European peers. However, excluding the MNE sector, Ireland’s performance reveals the impact of a very strict lockdown with negative consequences for employment and demand. KBRA’s approach to sovereign credit incorporates a medium-term perspective on how a country’s key credit metrics are expected to evolve, rather than point-in-time economic performance. KBRA continues to monitor all macroeconomic metrics that impact Ireland’s creditworthiness, including and excluding the vital MNE sector.0 -
Advertisement
-
covid and winter will see what happens as more people stay indoors covid cases should rise0
-
Wouldn't put much stock in KBRA reports - they just got slammed by the SEC for dodgy ratings a couple days ago.
Most ratings agencies are partners in fraud.0 -
Timing belt wrote:Before the last crash the government relied on the tax take from the construction boom as they thought would never end and that is why public finances looked good. That disappeared at the same time unemployment went through the roof.
Yup, we all know the storyTiming belt wrote:This time around the government are reliant on corp tax which could dry up quickly. This risk has been highlighted for the past few years so hopefully we don’t make the same mistake again.
And again, yup, we all know this story also, and both are deeply interlinked, it actually shows more fundamental flaws in our approaches to macroeconomics, we continually end up overly relying on a limited number of revenue streams to run our country, and when it fails, it's the tax payer that takes the hit, while they've been already taking the hit, while these plutocratic elements are simply behaving in a parasitic and predatory manner, I.e. 'rent-seeking'. We can't keep going like this, as others have said, as each younger generation comes through, it's been getting worse and worse, we re slowly creating a titanic situation for everyone, including the wealthy.0 -
It's unacceptable and inhumane to have any level of lasting long-term-unemployment - doubly so given we barely just got out of that from the previous decade.
This suggestion deserves a separate thread.
I feel that pre-COVID, most of the LT unemployed in Ireland were not unemployed due to a lack of vacancies.
They were either:
unemployable
they choose LT JSA combined with nixers, i.e. they choose to claim JSA as a lifestyle choice
suffer from a skills mismatch
Bear in mind that thousands of immigrants arrive here and managed to get jobs, while there were thousands of LT unemployed.
The (admittedly few) people I know on LT JSA are not unemployed due to a lack of jobs.
One earns 10k JSA + 40k nixer, the other has mild personality issues/couldn't hold down a job.0 -
This suggestion deserves a separate thread.
I feel that pre-COVID, most of the LT unemployed in Ireland were not unemployed due to a lack of vacancies.
They were either:
unemployable
they choose LT JSA combined with nixers, i.e. they choose to claim JSA as a lifestyle choice
suffer from a skills mismatch
Bear in mind that thousands of immigrants arrive here and managed to get jobs, while there were thousands of LT unemployed.
The (admittedly few) people I know on LT JSA are not unemployed due to a lack of jobs.
One earns 10k JSA + 40k nixer, the other has mild personality issues/couldn't hold down a job.
lt unemployment is actually astonishingly complicated, but there is growing research into the most common issues amongst this proportion of society, its also a similar set of issues amongst prison populations, you ll actually find, most of these issues are actually far from being mild, particularly to the person that has them0 -
Advertisement
-
...One earns 10k JSA + 40k nixer, the other has mild personality issues/couldn't hold down a job.
I don't mind people earning a bit on the side, but that is taking the p!ss to the rest of us taxpayers.Wouldn't put much stock in KBRA reports - they just got slammed by the SEC for dodgy ratings a couple days ago.
Most ratings agencies are partners in fraud.
Wirecard & EY is just the latest installment. Richard Brooks book "Bean Counters" lays it all bare.0 -
It isn't the normal swing of economics that is the issue here and will largely be irrelevant in the recovery (or not).
It is the huge changes to society imposed by Covid which will dictate the world economy going forward.
Change is usually good for economic activity, but in the case of Covid, some of that change is going to be a permanent reduction in some sectors.
This will mean people will spend less in some instances (no commute costs) and will have more disposable cash ( more people buy luxury goods) but overall, it all looks very deflationary (in economic output terms) to me.
I also think that Civid will accelerate the transition to a two tier society of those who work and those who don't. The socialisation of culture and rise of the left is not a accidental coincidence. The next generation won't accept the old ways of work-or-starve.
Interesting times.0 -
Roger the cabin boy wrote: »It isn't the normal swing of economics that is the issue here and will largely be irrelevant in the recovery (or not).
It is the huge changes to society imposed by Covid which will dictate the world economy going forward.
Change is usually good for economic activity, but in the case of Covid, some of that change is going to be a permanent reduction in some sectors.
This will mean people will spend less in some instances (no commute costs) and will have more disposable cash ( more people buy luxury goods) but overall, it all looks very deflationary (in economic output terms) to me.
I also think that Civid will accelerate the transition to a two tier society of those who work and those who don't. The socialisation of culture and rise of the left is not a accidental coincidence. The next generation won't accept the old ways of work-or-starve.
Interesting times.
what is your definition of this, and where exactly is this rise?0 -
Wanderer78 wrote: »what is your definition of this, and where exactly is this rise?
We will be having universal income soon. it may start as a experiment, but it will quickly become permanent. Simple jobs for simple people are evaporating with the rise of AI and automation. Covid payments are a step towards this. I am aghast at how long these are planned to last and how much these are going to cost, but it is in truth because without them, and that crutch/bridge between employed and not, we will likely have societal collapse.
The new, younger generations have no mass on anything they own or use. Theirs is a disposable world, with little care for the past or the future. only the now is important. The youth have no wish for long hours and hard work. Work/reward is a disconnecting ideal.
This is why you see the rise of the eft, of the socialists, of the move away from personal responsibility and towards external blame and ire.
We are becoming utterly weak as a race, well, esp so in the developed world. We are too lazy and self centered for hard work, best leave that to the immigrants.
Problem is though, all that costs money rather than generates its. It's fine to be a society of take, rather than give but at some point, the piper needs to be paid.
Maybe, maybe working 50 hrs a week really is nuts. Maybe a 30 hr week and a reduced (material) standard of living is actually better but that will just feed into the deflationary environment. No new cars every three years, wear your clothes out, eat everything on the plate, buy house which is big enough, work to live, etc. but that's the death of capitalism if we do.
I am sure i heard Biden saying that life isn't nice at the moment. Life is never nice, it's a tough, miserable tortuous existence at the best of times. The modern generation can't handle that reality. They want to stay in bed hiding from the reality of it all. They want to cancel out the voices that tell them life is hard. They don't want rules and regulations which sacrifice personal freedoms for social responsibility.
Its a marxist wet dream.0 -
Roger the cabin boy wrote: »We will be having universal income soon. it may start as a experiment, but it will quickly become permanent. Simple jobs for simple people are evaporating with the rise of AI and automation. Covid payments are a step towards this. I am aghast at how long these are planned to last and how much these are going to cost, but it is in truth because without them, and that crutch/bridge between employed and not, we will likely have societal collapse.
The new, younger generations have no mass on anything they own or use. Theirs is a disposable world, with little care for the past or the future. only the now is important. The youth have no wish for long hours and hard work. Work/reward is a disconnecting ideal.
This is why you see the rise of the eft, of the socialists, of the move away from personal responsibility and towards external blame and ire.
We are becoming utterly weak as a race, well, esp so in the developed world. We are too lazy and self centered for hard work, best leave that to the immigrants.
Problem is though, all that costs money rather than generates its. It's fine to be a society of take, rather than give but at some point, the piper needs to be paid.
Maybe, maybe working 50 hrs a week really is nuts. Maybe a 30 hr week and a reduced (material) standard of living is actually better but that will just feed into the deflationary environment. No new cars every three years, wear your clothes out, eat everything on the plate, buy house which is big enough, work to live, etc. but that's the death of capitalism if we do.
I am sure i heard Biden saying that life isn't nice at the moment. Life is never nice, it's a tough, miserable tortuous existence at the best of times. The modern generation can't handle that reality. They want to stay in bed hiding from the reality of it all. They want to cancel out the voices that tell them life is hard. They don't want rules and regulations which sacrifice personal freedoms for social responsibility.
Its a marxist wet dream.
jaysis, where do you even begin to unpack this one!
the arguments of ubi have been around decades now, and its still not here, in any major way, yes it could be here soon, but since our most critical institutions are still largely controlled by more economically conservative bodies, including from the political left, we could be waiting a while.... i personally think it should be tried, but with controls, and i particularly like the idea of preloading all households esb accounts with credit, just for the winter months, is well worth trying, just to see. please define the term 'simple people'? i do understand the concerns for the advancement of tech, but its important to remember, all past advancements of tech, have in fact lead to an increase in jobs, but i also realise, past trends are not a guarantee for possible future outcomes. covid payments were/are critical to those that availed of it, without which, we probably would have had many families in serious trouble, and it would have had a further compression of the economy, it would have also accelerated the closure of businesses, permanently. as others have explained very well, certainly better than me, growing public debt isnt necessarily a problem in the long term, as the most dangerous debt, is largely rising private debt. we will actually increase societal collapse if we continue on our current approach of largely fiscal conservatism, america is a fine example of this, this is potentially where we re all heading, if we continue on this trajectory.
its very unfair to single out the younger generations, as you ll find our wastefulness is across all generations, and it has been us older generations that have actually caused this way of life, mainly by our chosen conservative political and economic ideologies, particularly over the last few decades, by both the traditional political left and right. the youth that believe in reducing working hours and working stresses are actually dead right, as us older generations have been fed a pack of lies concerning hard work and success, you ll actually find productivity levels across most sectors are currently at all time highs, yet the payoff isnt actually paying off for many, i.e. low wage inflation. this truly does remind me of Petersons nonsense of 'cultural Marxists' and zizek is spot on, 'where the hell are they'! i suspect the majority of people, including myself, have little or no knowledge of ideologies such as socialism, Marxism, communism, etc etc etc, and id completely agree with economist deirdre mccloskey, most would chose a capitalist society over a socialist one, again, including myself. so again, where are these socialists, and what governments are of a socialist persuasion? always love this 'personal responsibility' default, its commonly used along side other scapegoats such as the scary foreigners and the welfare class, tis kinna boring now.....
again, please define 'weak'? lazy! please define this? again, productivity levels are at an all time high, across most sectors??? i will agree with the self centered statement though, narcissistic behavior is currently growing and is being encouraged in society, its an element of why we now have trump in power, these kind of folks are seen as 'strong men', when in fact, theyre actually just conmen!
we have figured out how to create effectively endless amounts of money without experiencing the traditional outcomes of doing so, i.e. hyperinflation etc, but this is not coming problem free, but for the moment, we re keeping those problems at bay, just about, in fact, it looks like we could be entering a period of deflation, which brings its own set of problems.
of course reducing the working week is well worth trying, our current approaches to work, are actually inducing highly complex social and psychological issues into society, which is extremely counterproductive, and actually extremely expensive to try deal with after the fact. i suspect we ve surpassed some sort of productivity limit for humans to work, and its causing these complex behavioral and psychological issues. i dont understand these arguments for reducing our standard of living, i think theres now a huge opportunity for us to greatly improve our standards, for the reasons outlined. we cannot maintain our current form of capitalism, it ll more than likely lead to a catastrophic collapse of this planet to maintain most life, including our own, this is now becoming very obvious! capitalism has been about for centuries now, what makes people think its just about to wrap up and end! this is nuts! but we cannot continue with this form of it, for obvious reasons! we have a serious wealth distribution problem, which urgently needs to be addressed, but our most critical of institutions, including our political ones, are currently defaulting to the norm.
jesus, why would you want to maintain the misery of past generations, we ve overcome an enormous amount as a species, we have done some great things, and continue to, we just need to clean up our sh1t, and im completely with these younger folks on many of their visions, because us older ones, have certainly made their future, deeply uncertain.
Marxism! again, where????0 -
Wanderer78 wrote: »jaysis, where do you even begin to unpack this one!
the arguments of ubi have been around decades now, and its still not here, in any major way, yes it could be here soon, but since our most critical institutions are still largely controlled by more economically conservative bodies, including from the political left, we could be waiting a while.... i personally think it should be tried, but with controls, and i particularly like the idea of preloading all households esb accounts with credit, just for the winter months, is well worth trying, just to see. please define the term 'simple people'? i do understand the concerns for the advancement of tech, but its important to remember, all past advancements of tech, have in fact lead to an increase in jobs, but i also realise, past trends are not a guarantee for possible future outcomes. covid payments were/are critical to those that availed of it, without which, we probably would have had many families in serious trouble, and it would have had a further compression of the economy, it would have also accelerated the closure of businesses, permanently. as others have explained very well, certainly better than me, growing public debt isnt necessarily a problem in the long term, as the most dangerous debt, is largely rising private debt. we will actually increase societal collapse if we continue on our current approach of largely fiscal conservatism, america is a fine example of this, this is potentially where we re all heading, if we continue on this trajectory.
its very unfair to single out the younger generations, as you ll find our wastefulness is across all generations, and it has been us older generations that have actually caused this way of life, mainly by our chosen conservative political and economic ideologies, particularly over the last few decades, by both the traditional political left and right. the youth that believe in reducing working hours and working stresses are actually dead right, as us older generations have been fed a pack of lies concerning hard work and success, you ll actually find productivity levels across most sectors are currently at all time highs, yet the payoff isnt actually paying off for many, i.e. low wage inflation. this truly does remind me of Petersons nonsense of 'cultural Marxists' and zizek is spot on, 'where the hell are they'! i suspect the majority of people, including myself, have little or no knowledge of ideologies such as socialism, Marxism, communism, etc etc etc, and id completely agree with economist deirdre mccloskey, most would chose a capitalist society over a socialist one, again, including myself. so again, where are these socialists, and what governments are of a socialist persuasion? always love this 'personal responsibility' default, its commonly used along side other scapegoats such as the scary foreigners and the welfare class, tis kinna boring now.....
again, please define 'weak'? lazy! please define this? again, productivity levels are at an all time high, across most sectors??? i will agree with the self centered statement though, narcissistic behavior is currently growing and is being encouraged in society, its an element of why we now have trump in power, these kind of folks are seen as 'strong men', when in fact, theyre actually just conmen!
we have figured out how to create effectively endless amounts of money without experiencing the traditional outcomes of doing so, i.e. hyperinflation etc, but this is not coming problem free, but for the moment, we re keeping those problems at bay, just about, in fact, it looks like we could be entering a period of deflation, which brings its own set of problems.
of course reducing the working week is well worth trying, our current approaches to work, are actually inducing highly complex social and psychological issues into society, which is extremely counterproductive, and actually extremely expensive to try deal with after the fact. i suspect we ve surpassed some sort of productivity limit for humans to work, and its causing these complex behavioral and psychological issues. i dont understand these arguments for reducing our standard of living, i think theres now a huge opportunity for us to greatly improve our standards, for the reasons outlined. we cannot maintain our current form of capitalism, it ll more than likely lead to a catastrophic collapse of this planet to maintain most life, including our own, this is now becoming very obvious! capitalism has been about for centuries now, what makes people think its just about to wrap up and end! this is nuts! but we cannot continue with this form of it, for obvious reasons! we have a serious wealth distribution problem, which urgently needs to be addressed, but our most critical of institutions, including our political ones, are currently defaulting to the norm.
jesus, why would you want to maintain the misery of past generations, we ve overcome an enormous amount as a species, we have done some great things, and continue to, we just need to clean up our sh1t, and im completely with these younger folks on many of their visions, because us older ones, have certainly made their future, deeply uncertain.
Marxism! again, where????
A good post of which i agree with a lot.0 -
It's unacceptable and inhumane to have any level of lasting long-term-unemployment - doubly so given we barely just got out of that from the previous decade.
A significant portion of upcoming generations are being completely screwed by this - and rewarded with astronomical costs of living to go with not having a job.
A policy of Permanent Full Employment needs to be enacted, with workers transitioning into a government 'employer of last resort' Job Guarantee program when the private sector can't provide for them. There is no end of useful work to be done, and for people to be trained up into doing - with housing being the most immediately obvious and often mentioned example (with plenty more besides that needs doing, still).
Involuntary unemployment must become a thing of the past. Even the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that people have the right to protection against unemployment - so arguably it's a breach of human rights to allow involuntary unemployment (particularly long-term/very-long-term unemployment) to continue.
There are those who for a number of reasons are unemployable and another cohort who do not wish to be employed0 -
-
I don't mind people earning a bit on the side, but that is taking the p!ss to the rest of us taxpayers.
Wirecard & EY is just the latest installment. Richard Brooks book "Bean Counters" lays it all bare.
The 30- 40k on the side is not as uncommon as you think especially with tradesman in full or part time employment0 -
-
Advertisement
-
Roger the cabin boy wrote: »We will be having universal income soon. it may start as a experiment, but it will quickly become permanent. Simple jobs for simple people are evaporating with the rise of AI and automation. Covid payments are a step towards this. I am aghast at how long these are planned to last and how much these are going to cost, but it is in truth because without them, and that crutch/bridge between employed and not, we will likely have societal collapse.
The new, younger generations have no mass on anything they own or use. Theirs is a disposable world, with little care for the past or the future. only the now is important. The youth have no wish for long hours and hard work. Work/reward is a disconnecting ideal.
This is why you see the rise of the eft, of the socialists, of the move away from personal responsibility and towards external blame and ire.
We are becoming utterly weak as a race, well, esp so in the developed world. We are too lazy and self centered for hard work, best leave that to the immigrants.
Problem is though, all that costs money rather than generates its. It's fine to be a society of take, rather than give but at some point, the piper needs to be paid.
Maybe, maybe working 50 hrs a week really is nuts. Maybe a 30 hr week and a reduced (material) standard of living is actually better but that will just feed into the deflationary environment. No new cars every three years, wear your clothes out, eat everything on the plate, buy house which is big enough, work to live, etc. but that's the death of capitalism if we do.
I am sure i heard Biden saying that life isn't nice at the moment. Life is never nice, it's a tough, miserable tortuous existence at the best of times. The modern generation can't handle that reality. They want to stay in bed hiding from the reality of it all. They want to cancel out the voices that tell them life is hard. They don't want rules and regulations which sacrifice personal freedoms for social responsibility.
Its a marxist wet dream.
As someone who started work in a factory in 1982 that employed nearly 1500 people (production and office staff combined ) producing 30k tonnes of product to the same factory producing 45k of product with a workforce of 350 I can vouch for that
All through automation and outsourcing
Most of those jobs were unskilled labour although well paid0 -
Roger the cabin boy wrote: »We will be having universal income soon. it may start as a experiment, but it will quickly become permanent. Simple jobs for simple people are evaporating with the rise of AI and automation. Covid payments are a step towards this. I am aghast at how long these are planned to last and how much these are going to cost, but it is in truth because without them, and that crutch/bridge between employed and not, we will likely have societal collapse.
The new, younger generations have no mass on anything they own or use. Theirs is a disposable world, with little care for the past or the future. only the now is important. The youth have no wish for long hours and hard work. Work/reward is a disconnecting ideal.
This is why you see the rise of the eft, of the socialists, of the move away from personal responsibility and towards external blame and ire.
We are becoming utterly weak as a race, well, esp so in the developed world. We are too lazy and self centered for hard work, best leave that to the immigrants.
Problem is though, all that costs money rather than generates its. It's fine to be a society of take, rather than give but at some point, the piper needs to be paid.
Maybe, maybe working 50 hrs a week really is nuts. Maybe a 30 hr week and a reduced (material) standard of living is actually better but that will just feed into the deflationary environment. No new cars every three years, wear your clothes out, eat everything on the plate, buy house which is big enough, work to live, etc. but that's the death of capitalism if we do.
I am sure i heard Biden saying that life isn't nice at the moment. Life is never nice, it's a tough, miserable tortuous existence at the best of times. The modern generation can't handle that reality. They want to stay in bed hiding from the reality of it all. They want to cancel out the voices that tell them life is hard. They don't want rules and regulations which sacrifice personal freedoms for social responsibility.
Its a marxist wet dream.
And social media fuels all this by misleading them into thinking everybody else has a perfect life0 -
Wanderer78 wrote: »long term unemployment is extremely complex, it cannot be simplified as such
I agree ,certain people due to medical and mental conditions are not suited to the workforce
Others are just bone lazy
Every society will have these to a varying degree0 -
Wanderer78 wrote: »do we have any absolute proof of these figures?
Yes
Tradesmen working continental shifts 4 day on 4 days off ,or working 3 13hr weekend shifts and then working for themselves or small builders on 3 of their 4 days off
Younger lads in our place do it regularly ,all cash in hand .
200 euro a day for an 8 hr day is not a lot considering a contractor would probably charge 400 euro plus for the same time0 -
As someone who started work in a factory in 1982 that employed nearly 1500 people (production and office staff combined ) producing 30k tonnes of product to the same factory producing 45k of product with a workforce of 350 I can vouch for that
All through automation and outsourcing
Most of those jobs were unskilled labour although well paid
i think the term of 'simple people' is a bit ignorant to be honest, there was/is nothing simple about these folks, unskilled jobs were/are the norm, most of us have done that type of work at some stage, theres nothing wrong with it. but again, each evolution of tech, has lead to an increasing amount of jobs, but we ve decided the best thing to do is to suppress wage inflation and increase things such as asset price inflation, most notably, house price inflation, largely via financialisation of our economiesAnd social media fuels all this by misleading them into thinking everybody else has a perfect life
social media definitely is weird, thank god, boards is all i doI agree ,certain people due to medical and mental conditions are not suited to the workforce
Others are just bone lazy
Every society will have these to a varying degree
id largely disagree here, i generally class this as 'lazy research' even with my own disorders, this belief is prevalent!0 -
Yes
Tradesmen working continental shifts 4 day on 4 days off ,or working 3 13hr weekend shifts and then working for themselves or small builders on 3 of their 4 days off
Younger lads in our place do it regularly ,all cash in hand .
200 euro a day for an 8 hr day is not a lot considering a contractor would probably charge 400 euro plus for the same time
all of them?0 -
I never used the term simple ,another poster didWanderer78 wrote: »i think the term of 'simple people' is a bit ignorant to be honest, there was/is nothing simple about these folks, unskilled jobs were/are the norm, most of us have done that type of work at some stage, theres nothing wrong with it. but again, each evolution of tech, has lead to an increasing amount of jobs, but we ve decided the best thing to do is to suppress wage inflation and increase things such as asset price inflation, most notably, house price inflation, largely via financialisation of our economies
social media definitely is weird, thank god, boards is all i do
id largely disagree here, i generally class this as 'lazy research' even with my own disorders, this belief is prevalent!
The majority of the people who worked and still do in my place left school before their leaving cert,had no futher education and went straight into a factory
Another section would be married women with kids at a sensible age and the women do it to supplement their household income
35-50k depending on shift is not bad pay for someone with no leaving cert in a job were you work 40mins out of every hour and you are not physically or mentally taxed0 -
Wanderer78 wrote: »all of them?
No not them all but some
Weekend nights was always the pits of a shift and it was were you started before moving to 4 night midweek and then 2 shift .
Now for childminding and nixer reasons those on weekend nights wont leave it .
85 k +pension + benefits and a few hundred cash in your pocket every week is not a bad life even if you lose your weekend
That is tradesmen
At one stage the taxi men's union picketed our factory because of the number of permanent workers who owned taxi plates and taxied at the weekend .0 -
I never used the term simple ,another poster did
The majority of the people who worked and still do in my place left school before their leaving cert,had no futher education and went straight into a factory
Another section would be married women with kids at a sensible age and the women do it to supplement their household income
35-50k depending on shift is not bad pay for someone with no leaving cert in a job were you work 40mins out of every hour and you are not physically or mentally taxed
i understand that, i wasnt pointing that comment towards you.
some of those folks may not have had many choices coming out of school, and if they didnt enjoy school, struggled with the leaving etc, working in a factory could have been the default, again, nothing wrong with it, ive done this type of work myself.
again, women should have the option to work and have kids, obviously humanity needs them to continue having kids, but many women actually work largely due to the issues mentioned above, i.e. low wage inflation, high asset price inflation etc
as ive mentioned, ive worked shifts in a factory, i was mentally challenged to the point of helping to induce mental health issues, ive worked with other lads that had breakdowns, and work was an element of this, ive also worked with people that were forced to take 'stress leave', not mentally challenging, im not so sure about that!No not them all but some
Weekend nights was always the pits of a shift and it was were you started before moving to 4 night midweek and then 2 shift .
Now for childminding and nixer reasons those on weekend nights wont leave it .
85 k +pension + benefits and a few hundred cash in your pocket every week is not a bad life even if you lose your weekend
again, is this lifestyle 'choice', really a choice for some? i will agree, some just love making more money, and best of luck to them0 -
Advertisement
-
I can say without reservation that production people in our factory have no work related stress.Wanderer78 wrote: »i understand that, i wasnt pointing that comment towards you.
some of those folks may not have had many choices coming out of school, and if they didnt enjoy school, struggled with the leaving etc, working in a factory could have been the default, again, nothing wrong with it, ive done this type of work myself.
again, women should have the option to work and have kids, obviously humanity needs them to continue having kids, but many women actually work largely due to the issues mentioned above, i.e. low wage inflation, high asset price inflation etc
as ive mentioned, ive worked shifts in a factory, i was mentally challenged to the point of helping to induce mental health issues, ive worked with other lads that had breakdowns, and work was an element of this, ive also worked with people that were forced to take 'stress leave', not mentally challenging, im not so sure about that!
again, is this lifestyle 'choice', really a choice for some? i will agree, some just love making more money, and best of luck to them
Work 40mins off for 20mins
Sit and watch machine ,or drive a forktruck etc
Fill a sheet in with a few weights and samples every couple of hours
Breakdown happens all head to canteen after a few mins cleaning
Clock in at 8 and out at 4 even if the place is falling down .
Its American owned now but there is 90yrs of British Quaker ownership embedded in the work practices and terms and conditions of employment0
Advertisement