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Lease was up in April. Received new lease today. 4% increase

  • 07-08-2020 11:38am
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭


    Wondering where I stand on this

    My lease ended last April. We didn't sign a new lease. Usually we would. We were due a 4% increase but that didn't happen due to covid. Landlord got in touch today to let us know he wants to sign a new lease. Covid rent freeze ended last week so he wants to increase by 4%.

    Due to the nature of rolling leases, does this mean we should be keeping the original rent for a year until April 2021?

    I wouldn't usually try to angle shoot like this but it's just the timing of it has annoyed me. He clearly done it himself by waiting until the end of this rent freeze.


«13

Comments

  • #2
    fishy_fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭fishy_fishy


    partyjungle wrote: »
    Wondering where I stand on this

    My lease ended last April. We didn't sign a new lease. Usually we would. We were due a 4% increase but that didn't happen due to covid. Landlord got in touch today to let us know he wants to sign a new lease. Covid rent freeze ended last week so he wants to increase by 4%.

    Due to the nature of rolling leases, does this mean we should be keeping the original rent for a year until April 2021?

    I wouldn't usually try to angle shoot like this but it's just the timing of it has annoyed me. He clearly done it himself by waiting until the end of this rent freeze.

    You don't have to sign a new lease, but I would think the rent increase is permitted


  • #3
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,400 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    When did you start renting and when was the last rent review?


  • #4
    ShareShare
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭ShareShare


    partyjungle wrote: »
    I wouldn't usually try to angle shoot like this but it's just the timing of it has annoyed me. He clearly done it himself by waiting until the end of this rent freeze.

    Wouldnt that imply that he infact was planning to increase the rent, and didnt increase it until the covid freeze was all over, seems a pretty fair way they approached it.

    You don't need to sign the new lease, like you never have to agree to something, but he is allowed give you notice of rent increase subject to the last rent review period guidelines. That doesn't require your consent.


  • #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    TheChizler wrote: »
    When did you start renting and when was the last rent review?

    Been in the property 4+ years. Rent went up April 2019 by 4%. It was due to go up by 4% again in April 2020 but that didn't happen due to covid.


  • #6
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Do you think the landlord is not entitled to increase the rent? If so, what would the reason be.


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  • #7
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    partyjungle wrote: »

    I wouldn't usually try to angle shoot like this but it's just the timing of it has annoyed me. He clearly done it himself by waiting until the end of this rent freeze.

    Doubt you could do it.

    COVID aside, your rent was due to go up. You've had a break for the last few months and now it's hit you.

    Maybe you should have pushed to get the lease signed back in April, but what can ya do. He's entitled to increase the rent yearly. Its been over a year.


  • #8
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    Rental costs are having a huge impact on people’s disposable income , who is getting a 4% on their wages annually ? Very very few .
    Wages are not rising in line with rental increases


  • #9
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,480 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    He's can actually raise the rent higher than 4% as it's been longer than the 12 months since last review.


  • #10
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Rental costs are having a huge impact on people’s disposable income , who is getting a 4% on their wages annually ? Very very few .
    Wages are not rising in line with rental increases

    This is irrelevant.


  • #11
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    Doubt you could do it.

    COVID aside, your rent was due to go up. You've had a break for the last few months and now it's hit you.

    Maybe you should have pushed to get the lease signed back in April, but what can ya do. He's entitled to increase the rent yearly. Its been over a year.

    You don't get a break.

    The calculation is done over the period of time. It doesn't matter what month the rent increase comes in, the '4%' is not a set 4% it's calculated over the period of time since last increases including the 90 day notice of increase period.


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  • #12
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Varik wrote: »
    He's can actually raise the rent higher than 4% as it's been longer than the 12 months since last review.

    This. The formula is R x (1 + 0.04 x t/m). So he could raise it by something like 6/7% by the time it comes into affect.


  • #13
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,480 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    All notices of rent review that notify a rent increase, which were served before the emergency period and were due to start during this period, cannot take effect until the emergency period ends; the tenant is not required to pay the increased amount of rent during the emergency period and no backdating of rent may apply.

    Rent review notices can be served as usual during the emergency period, but they cannot take effect until after the emergency period is over. This should be stated in any rent review notice and no backdating of rent may apply.

    Even if the LL had issued a new contract back in April the rent review could still have happened it just wouldn't have started until now.

    The fact he's not increasing over the 4% as he's allowed since it's over the 12 months, that by issue a review now you've that additional notice period, and the fact that since the next rent review is delayed now by the ~4 odd months you're actually better off than if he had done it back in April.


  • #14
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    Rents are falling or so I'm led to believe. Any evidence of similar properties with lower prices around? If so use that as your bargaining chip.

    It's been a year, LL is entitled to review rent. Max allowed increase in RPZ is 4%. Your LL is just trying to charge the max he/she can before the ar$e really falls out.

    Options:
    1) Pay it
    2) Negotiate
    3) Move


  • #15
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    theteal wrote: »
    Rents are falling or so I'm led to believe. Any evidence of similar properties with lower prices around? If so use that as your bargaining chip.

    It's been a year, LL is entitled to review rent. Max allowed increase in RPZ is 4%. Your LL is just trying to charge the max he/she can before the ar$e really falls out.

    Options:
    1) Pay it
    2) Negotiate
    3) Move

    Rents are not falling.,


  • #16
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    joeguevara wrote: »
    This is irrelevant.

    Might be for you but not for thousands of other people who can’t afford rent increases due to flat wages , many people have little or no disposable income as it stands ... the working poor a growing percentage of the Irish population


  • #17
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    Might be for you but not for thousands of other people who can’t afford rent increases due to flat wages , many people have little or no disposable income as it stands ... the working poor a growing percentage of the Irish population

    Then a thread about that is where the post should be. Not in a thread where a legal increase is requested. Do you start protesting about world hunger when asked to pay a bill in a restaurant?


  • #18
    Smouse156
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Smouse156


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Rents are not falling.,

    Rents are falling, supply has increased over 300%. It would be foolish to pay any rent increase unless one had a significantly below market rate. So compare and play hardball is similar properties are going for less


  • #19
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    No one likes a rent increase, but the LL has been fair have they not?
    I think you need to suck this one up. (or move, but I'm guessing thats not what you want)


  • #20
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Smouse156 wrote: »
    Rents are falling, supply has increased over 300%. It would be foolish to pay any rent increase unless one had a significantly below market rate. So compare and play hardball is similar properties are going for less

    Where has supply increased by over 300% - would love to see that.


  • #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    ShareShare wrote: »
    Wouldnt that imply that he infact was planning to increase the rent, and didnt increase it until the covid freeze was all over, seems a pretty fair way they approached it.

    You don't need to sign the new lease, like you never have to agree to something, but he is allowed give you notice of rent increase subject to the last rent review period guidelines. That doesn't require your consent.

    Yes he was definitely planning on increasing the rent. My rent has been going up by the legal maximum at every opportunity for the last 15 or so years. Is this not standard for Dublin?


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  • #22
    Smouse156
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Smouse156


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Where has supply increased by over 300% - would love to see that.

    That’s Dublin:

    https://bl.ocks.org/pinsterdev/raw/234b4a5310a14a32e080/?s=volume

    Low to high nearly 300% increase since Jan, although pulled back a little in August. Picture & trend is pretty clear. Even the EA’s wouldn’t argue against rent drops

    https://www.owenreilly.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Owen-Reilly-Dublin-Residential-Q2-Report-2020.pdf

    Look at the page on rentals!

    OP, unless you are renting at a well under market rate I’d negotiate/leave. However if you are just pay the 4%


  • #23
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Do you think the landlord is not entitled to increase the rent? If so, what would the reason be.

    I'm trying to understand rolling contracts. I'm specifically asking if he's able to increase at this exact juncture. Our lease continued when it was supposed to be renewed. I'm wondering do the terms of the previous lease carry over e.g. I have a year at x price.

    I'm just a bit miffed as I pushed to have it signed in April (as we do every year) but he said it wasn't possible due to restrictions. Fair enough. It was peak lockdown. I asked again soon after and got same response. The timing for his availability to sign the lease now is irritatingly convenient for him.


  • #24
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,976 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    partyjungle wrote: »
    I'm trying to understand rolling contracts. I'm specifically asking if he's able to increase at this exact juncture. Our lease continued when it was supposed to be renewed. I'm wondering do the terms of the previous lease carry over e.g. I have a year at x price.

    I'm just a bit miffed as I pushed to have it signed in April (as we do every year) but he said it wasn't possible due to restrictions. Fair enough. It was peak lockdown. I asked again soon after and got same response. The timing for his availability to sign the lease now is irritatingly convenient for him.

    There is nothing convenient with what is going on at the moment for LLs. The legality of when and how much rent can be increased is laid out in the RTA and RPZ legislation. If it has been a year since your last rent review, then the LL can raise rent by the permitted amount. Once you have gained Part 4 rights, there really is any need for a term contract, and if anything, it ties you down from moving if you saw somewhere better/cheaper. As another poster said, you can either accept/negotiate/move, your choice.


  • #25
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Smouse156 wrote: »
    That’s Dublin:

    https://bl.ocks.org/pinsterdev/raw/234b4a5310a14a32e080/?s=volume

    Low to high nearly 300% increase since Jan, although pulled back a little in August. Picture & trend is pretty clear. Even the EA’s wouldn’t argue against rent drops

    https://www.owenreilly.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Owen-Reilly-Dublin-Residential-Q2-Report-2020.pdf

    Look at the page on rentals!

    OP, unless you are renting at a well under market rate I’d negotiate/leave. However if you are just pay the 4%

    If not willing to pay a legally entitled increase - expect an evicition notice. But your stats are very interesting, however, with everything average and median aren't catch alls and everything is on a case by case.

    I don't see that there is a 300% supply increase. That would mean that lets say there was 1000 houses available in 2019 there are 3000 now.


  • #26
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    partyjungle wrote: »
    I'm trying to understand rolling contracts. I'm specifically asking if he's able to increase at this exact juncture. Our lease continued when it was supposed to be renewed. I'm wondering do the terms of the previous lease carry over e.g. I have a year at x price.

    I'm just a bit miffed as I pushed to have it signed in April (as we do every year) but he said it wasn't possible due to restrictions. Fair enough. It was peak lockdown. I asked again soon after and got same response. The timing for his availability to sign the lease now is irritatingly convenient for him.

    And the restrictions were convenient for those renting. He is entitled to the increase and as said earlier he can issue rent review even when a contract is signed provided appropriate notice is given.


  • #27
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    partyjungle wrote: »
    I'm trying to understand rolling contracts. I'm specifically asking if he's able to increase at this exact juncture. Our lease continued when it was supposed to be renewed. I'm wondering do the terms of the previous lease carry over e.g. I have a year at x price.

    I'm just a bit miffed as I pushed to have it signed in April (as we do every year) but he said it wasn't possible due to restrictions. Fair enough. It was peak lockdown. I asked again soon after and got same response. The timing for his availability to sign the lease now is irritatingly convenient for him.

    Even if you signed the contract he can increase rent as far as I know; same way you could negotiate a rent decrease if external factors suggested this was possible


  • #28
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    I actually believe he can legally increase the rent by 5.3% (today) as the rent was not increased since 1/4/2019 (approximately)


  • #29
    Smouse156
    Registered Users Posts: 529 ✭✭✭Smouse156


    joeguevara wrote: »
    If not willing to pay a legally entitled increase - expect an evicition notice. But your stats are very interesting, however, with everything average and median aren't catch alls and everything is on a case by case.

    I don't see that there is a 300% supply increase. That would mean that lets say there was 1000 houses available in 2019 there are 3000 now.

    There was over a 250% increase according to the graph at one point. Circa 1100 units available in Jan and close to 3000 end of July. Also in Owen Reilly’s report he claims 7% of his managed tenancies ended prematurely! That’s pretty significant And basically implies they walked out the door and defaulted on their obligations. While he does only have a small section of the market he does have the upper end so it’s likely reminiscent of the whole.

    Basically they’re falling and likely will fall hard if the colleges don’t go back/second wave etc but the only question is by how much.


  • #30
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Smouse156 wrote: »
    There was over a 250% increase according to the graph at one point. Circa 1100 units available in Jan and close to 3000 end of July. Also in Owen Reilly’s report he claims 7% of his managed tenancies ended prematurely! That’s pretty significant And basically implies they walked out the door and defaulted on their obligations. While he does only have a small section of the market he does have the upper end so it’s likely reminiscent of the whole.

    Basically they’re falling and likely will fall hard if the colleges don’t go back/second wave etc but the only question is by how much.

    Where are all the people going do you think?


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  • #31
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Smouse156 wrote: »
    There was over a 250% increase according to the graph at one point. Circa 1100 units available in Jan and close to 3000 end of July. Also in Owen Reilly’s report he claims 7% of his managed tenancies ended prematurely! That’s pretty significant And basically implies they walked out the door and defaulted on their obligations. While he does only have a small section of the market he does have the upper end so it’s likely reminiscent of the whole.

    Basically they’re falling and likely will fall hard if the colleges don’t go back/second wave etc but the only question is by how much.

    The total number of people in Ireland probably has increased or decreased massively due to COVID.

    Non irish residents may have gone home to other countries (students, workers etc)

    Before COVID there was a supply shortage. Air BNB has gone to rental now, but some of this will go back to Air BNB in the medium term.

    Construction has slowed due to COVID. Shared rooms etc in student accommodation will no longer be shared - even if its not students occupying said rooms. Each student will need his/her own room and maybe bathroom
    Similarly irish nationals returned (healthcare, students etc). The cost of providing this accommodation will increase and this will be passed on to the renter.

    Regarding non student accommodation people will want larger spaces to have an office etc. May not want to rent a room out for example. This could reduce shared supply.

    Also according to daft rental supply was up 63% rather than 250% year on year


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