Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
13-01-2019, 09:22   #16
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 74
How would it effect insurance? Say a tenant bought their own dryer or cooker and it caught fire. Is the landlords or tenants that are responsible.
Benny Biscotti is offline  
Advertisement
13-01-2019, 09:42   #17
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 6,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by nox001 View Post
I don’t see much change tbh, pretty much every single Irish person or couple I know who doesn’t already own their own place is either saving for it, applying for a mortgage or in the process of buying/building (28 to 35 age group).

Maybe the figure are getting skewed by lots of foreign workers coming here who wouldn’t plan on staying long term so they rent etc but for Irish people buying is still the priority for the majority.
The age people used to buy was 26 or so. In the 80’s/90’s. Buying at 35 means a long time in rentals.
Franz Von Peppercorn is offline  
13-01-2019, 11:43   #18
GGTrek
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 789
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1874 View Post
you missed fridge, i can't recall if microwave is on the list but as you missed fridge in the first place I'm not sure you're correct about M-wave.
personally I think it's stupid that it's not optional, tenants could buy and be responsible for their own stuff and purchase to whatever quality they want. Including fridges washing machines and cookers. The thing is the anti landlord lot would use it against landlords to malign them when many would be quite happy with that situation, the only condition of have on it is that any appliance is professionally connected, so might rule out a job or cooker for convenience as it's easier to fit/install a washing machine or fridge.
Not in that game anymore but I think many in ireland wouldn't be interested in paying for all the stuff required to fit out a rental, but will happily complain that it's not up to spec.
I shall just quote the old 2008 regs (which are still valid, the govvie in its great wisdom just added more stuff):
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2.../made/en/print
Section 8:
"there shall be provided, within the habitable area of the house, for the exclusive use of the house:
(a) 4 ring hob with oven and grill,
(b) Suitable facilities for the effective and safe removal of fumes to the external air by means of a cooker hood or extractor fan,
(c) Fridge and freezer or fridge-freezer,
(d) Microwave oven,
(e) Sink, with a piped supply of cold water taken direct from the service pipe supplying water from the public main or other source to the building containing the house and a facility for the piped supply of hot water, and an adequate draining area,
(f) Suitable and adequate number of kitchen presses for food storage purposes,
(g) Washing machine, or access to a communal washing machine facility within the curtilage of the building, and
(h) Where the house does not contain a garden or yard for the exclusive use of that house, a dryer (vented or recirculation type).
(3) All facilities under sub-article (2) shall be maintained in good working order and good repair.
(4) Responsibility for maintenance of facilities under sub-article (2) shall rest with the landlord. "


So a lot of the discussion in this thread is just wishes. Unfurnished lettings are not legal in Ireland and with the current thinking in the govvie and the media wanting to give more responsibilities to landlords it is not going to happen in the foreseable future. The expensive stuff to maintain is the list of white goods above (fully fitted kitchen and bathroom are the expensive bits to build and maintain), of course one can discuss if it is worth putting bed(s), table, chairs and sofa, but in my opinion it really makes little difference once you consider all the obligations put in the 2008, 2009 and 2017 Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations. Who knows if they will add an additional regulation in 2019? The Irish politicians have always got many great ideas which do not cost a cent to the state, but a great deal to landlords and then they show an hypocrite suprise that supply of rentals goes down!
GGTrek is offline  
13-01-2019, 12:02   #19
TheChizler
Registered User
 
TheChizler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,131
I'd be in favour of the government introducing another category of rentals for long term lets. Where the tenancy can only be ended by the tenant voluntarily or them breaking the contract, or very limited reasons for renovation to do with safety or work that can't be avoided. In return there would be zero obligations on the landlord beyond providing a safe structure and the tenant does the rest within a set of boundaries decided by the landlord.

I'd love to fit out my apartment the way I want but there's no way I'd risk doing it without the security of tenure provided by something like the above. At the moment I don't feel I could even buy a bed cause I don't know what I'd do with it if I had to move.
TheChizler is offline  
13-01-2019, 12:33   #20
Mrs OBumble
Registered User
 
Mrs OBumble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 18,295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz Von Peppercorn View Post

The countries with unfurnished rentals tend to have better rights for tenants though. It’s obviously going to be hard to give one months notice because your niece wants the property if the tenant has to remove all furniture, fittings and white goods.
Not particularly. They just get a (wo)man-with-a-van and move their stuff to where they're moving to.

It does make for more stable tenancies though, because people have to work a bit harder to move so midnight flits are less likely.
Mrs OBumble is offline  
Advertisement
13-01-2019, 12:53   #21
nox001
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz Von Peppercorn View Post
The age people used to buy was 26 or so. In the 80’s/90’s. Buying at 35 means a long time in rentals.
A lot of the renting would be house shares where just renting a room though plus a lot stay living at home too. Also I picked a fairly wide age range but the most of the people I’d be referring to would be in the 28 to 32 range in reality so not that different to years ago. People spending longer in college etc now would account for the later age too and people in college tend to rent cheap rooms or live at home. The last thing they would want is an unfurnished let.
nox001 is offline  
13-01-2019, 14:25   #22
DrDonkey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,583
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTrek View Post
So a lot of the discussion in this thread is just wishes. Unfurnished lettings are not legal in Ireland

Is this really true?


So somebody moving with their furniture, into rental accommodation has to pay to put their stuff in storage or encourage their landlord to break the law?


What do mid career people do when they get transferred and dont wish to buy a house in their new location or wish to stay in rental until they get a feel for the new place and then buy?



Law and ass come to mind...
DrDonkey is offline  
13-01-2019, 14:37   #23
Graham
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,800
I don't see anything that would prohibit unfurnished lettings as long as the minimum standards are met.

For the most part, the few items listed as "shall be provided" are either structural in nature (ventilation etc) or make up part of most kitchens.

Furnished rental accommodation is currently what the market expects so most property is let furnished. There's obviously a cost to un-furnishing a property (removal/storage) so many landlords are reluctant to offer an already furnished property as unfurnished.
Graham is offline  
13-01-2019, 14:42   #24
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 6,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by nox001 View Post
A lot of the renting would be house shares where just renting a room though plus a lot stay living at home too. Also I picked a fairly wide age range but the most of the people I’d be referring to would be in the 28 to 32 range in reality so not that different to years ago. People spending longer in college etc now would account for the later age too and people in college tend to rent cheap rooms or live at home. The last thing they would want is an unfurnished let.
What’s stopping people buying is price. And your anecdotes aside the average age is about 8 years higher - at 34 - than it was historically.
Franz Von Peppercorn is offline  
Advertisement
13-01-2019, 14:53   #25
Carter P Fly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 614
I think its all part of Irelands traditional fixation of buying your own home and the overriding idea that renting is only temporary.

By providing and in turn by wishing to rent a furninshed property your a significant step removed from properly putting down roots and calling it your home. The irish dont traditionally want the rental to be considered home, Its the place you live in while you save and wit to buy your onw house.

A unfurnished rental is furnishing a house thats not yours, and never will be yours so we like the comfort buffer of furnished.
Carter P Fly is offline  
13-01-2019, 14:56   #26
quietsailor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,253
There is nothing stopping landlords advertising a house that is empty of most fittings, beds, couches, wardrobes etc AS LONG AS they supply the minimum written in an above post. The thing is its a halfway between proper unfurnished like in other countries, and fully furnished so there is a worry that no tenant will be attracted to it so why chance it (from the landlords point of view)

If your a tenant looking for unfurnished try going into the letting agents and asking if any of their landlords have just renovated a house and haven't bought all the furniture yet. You offer to move in with your furniture, they have to provide the minimum stuff anyway to advertise it for rental but you renting it now means they can put off buying beds and the other non legally required items for a year. If you have friends who are plumbers and electricians you could get your own oven, washing machine etc fitted with the landlords permission once you come to some agreement to store the landlords
quietsailor is offline  
13-01-2019, 15:49   #27
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 6,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carter P Fly View Post
I think its all part of Irelands traditional fixation of buying your own home and the overriding idea that renting is only temporary.

By providing and in turn by wishing to rent a furninshed property your a significant step removed from properly putting down roots and calling it your home. The irish dont traditionally want the rental to be considered home, Its the place you live in while you save and wit to buy your onw house.

A unfurnished rental is furnishing a house thats not yours, and never will be yours so we like the comfort buffer of furnished.
We are no different from most of Europe in that regard. In fact home ownership here is fairly low.

In the four or so countries much lower than us in Europe tenants have rights far greater than ours.

Last edited by Franz Von Peppercorn; 13-01-2019 at 16:05.
Franz Von Peppercorn is offline  
13-01-2019, 17:06   #28
Samuel T. Cogley
Registered User
 
Samuel T. Cogley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 7,384
If there was proper provision for unfurnished lets I'd be offering it, but what is unfurnished? Proper unfurnished lets a la ze Germans don't even come with Kitchens (if what I read on boards is to be believed).
Samuel T. Cogley is offline  
13-01-2019, 17:24   #29
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 6,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel T. Cogley View Post
If there was proper provision for unfurnished lets I'd be offering it, but what is unfurnished? Proper unfurnished lets a la ze Germans don't even come with Kitchens (if what I read on boards is to be believed).
Proper unfurnished like Germany also comes with laws protecting sitting tenants for years. You sell with the tenants intact. It’s a chicken and egg situation as to what comes first, the unfurnished kitchens or the laws.

Probably the laws.

Last edited by Franz Von Peppercorn; 13-01-2019 at 17:32.
Franz Von Peppercorn is offline  
(2) thanks from:
13-01-2019, 18:50   #30
the_syco
Registered User
 
the_syco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 34,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel T. Cogley View Post
If there was proper provision for unfurnished lets I'd be offering it, but what is unfurnished? Proper unfurnished lets a la ze Germans don't even come with Kitchens (if what I read on boards is to be believed).
I suppose I'm looking at the model used in Toronto.

All of these;
Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTrek View Post
I shall just quote the old 2008 regs (which are still valid, the govvie in its great wisdom just added more stuff):
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2.../made/en/print
Section 8:
"there shall be provided, within the habitable area of the house, for the exclusive use of the house:
(a) 4 ring hob with oven and grill,
(b) Suitable facilities for the effective and safe removal of fumes to the external air by means of a cooker hood or extractor fan,
(c) Fridge and freezer or fridge-freezer,
(d) Microwave oven,
(e) Sink, with a piped supply of cold water taken direct from the service pipe supplying water from the public main or other source to the building containing the house and a facility for the piped supply of hot water, and an adequate draining area,
(f) Suitable and adequate number of kitchen presses for food storage purposes,
(g) Washing machine, or access to a communal washing machine facility within the curtilage of the building, and
(h) Where the house does not contain a garden or yard for the exclusive use of that house, a dryer (vented or recirculation type).
(3) All facilities under sub-article (2) shall be maintained in good working order and good repair.
(4) Responsibility for maintenance of facilities under sub-article (2) shall rest with the landlord. "
All the above, except for what I crossed out, existed in all places that I viewed, and the two places that I lived in. Microwave existed in one place, but not the other.

Plates, kitchen utensils, etc, were often your own, although sometimes what was left from the person before you was often used.

Bedrooms, living rooms, etc, came bare. You furnish them with your own beds, tables, chairs, etc. It works out well in Toronto, and I'm told it's the same throughout Canada.

TBH, your home being furnished with your things makes it your home a lot easier. And if you move, you bring your things with you.
the_syco is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet