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Guinness Pro12 Season 2020-2021

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13567…32

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  • Options
    #62
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,176 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    awec wrote: »
    They foisted the Kings on us, take nothing for granted!

    The ProWhatever would let the Sydney Fishermen 3rd XV join the league if they brought a few quid with them.

    The Pro14 will cast its net far and wide to steady the ship and, if they get a nibble, the Sydney Fisherman 3rd XV would be a good catch.


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    #63
    Kevski
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Kevski


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    I don't know about other teams, but I'm pretty sure that outside of the SA trips Munster always used private charters.

    And after reading the article, it pretty much says that they all do. I'm not sure why they bothered with that headline TBH.

    Leinster fly with CityJet which is technically a charter, but the remaining seats on the plane that weren’t taken up by the team were open to supporters. I guess they’re ruling out that kind of situation going forwards.


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    #64
    Tomtom364
    Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Tomtom364


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    For European games it’s always private charter.
    For league games not always but depends on a few factors.

    Where commercial flights would be sufficient they used them for European too. It's just more often then not there wouldn't be a fitting flight.


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    #65
    yerrahbah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭yerrahbah


    Is there an affinity from Welsh rugby supporters to Saracens?

    The few of them that I follow seem to absolutely love them


    https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1308906032073240578


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    #66
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,986 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Simon Thomas has long been an advocate for Welsh teams joining the premiership.

    He routinely mentions that the worst decision ever by Welsh rugby was not taking the 5 places offered to Wales to join the English club structure back in 1998


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    #67
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    yerrahbah wrote: »
    Is there an affinity from Welsh rugby supporters to Saracens?

    The few of them that I follow seem to absolutely love them


    https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1308906032073240578

    No there's just an affinity from Welsh rugby supporters to anything but the pro14. They're all desperate to either try and join the Gallagher Premiership or a B&I league.


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    #68
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,176 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    He routinely mentions that the worst decision ever by Welsh rugby was not taking the 5 places offered to Wales to join the English club structure back in 1998

    He has a point.


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    #69
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,986 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Buer wrote: »
    He has a point.

    Yes he does, however the ship has well sailed at this stage though.... and the begrudgery of that decision is one of the reasons the welsh regional club structure is on the precipice of failure.


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    #70
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,957 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Yes he does, however the ship has well sailed at this stage though.... and the begrudgery of that decision is one of the reasons the welsh regional club structure is on the precipice of failure.

    Of course those Welsh teams would be just as broke and on the verge of collapse as the other Premiership teams, but that's not important


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    #71
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    Of course those Welsh teams would be just as broke and on the verge of collapse as the other Premiership teams, but that's not important

    Are the English Premiership teams really on verge of collapse? I thought it was the Championship teams.


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    #72
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,986 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Are the English Premiership teams really on verge of collapse? I thought it was the Championship teams.


    https://www.ft.com/content/99ad196a-f949-4039-95d7-bb70b384cd45


    https%3A%2F%2Fd6c748xw2pzm8.cloudfront.net%2Fprod%2F923eb640-f835-11ea-a8d9-430bec442c3f-standard.png?dpr=1&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=700

    apart from Exeter all other premisershiop clubs are running at a constant loss.

    sugar daddies are keeping that league afloat.

    Exeter came out last month to say they are losing 1 million pound a month due to covid

    theres no way 5 welsh clubs would have survived from 1998 to now competing against that, with their current financing structures.


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    #73
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    https://www.ft.com/content/99ad196a-f949-4039-95d7-bb70b384cd45


    https%3A%2F%2Fd6c748xw2pzm8.cloudfront.net%2Fprod%2F923eb640-f835-11ea-a8d9-430bec442c3f-standard.png?dpr=1&fit=scale-down&quality=highest&source=next&width=700

    apart from Exeter all other premisershiop clubs are running at a constant loss.

    sugar daddies are keeping that league afloat.

    Exeter came out last month to say they are losing 1 million pound a month due to covid

    theres no way 5 welsh clubs would have survived from 1998 to now competing against that, with their current financing structures.

    Thanks for this. If no crowds for 6 months surely we could see some clubs literally going under.


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    #74
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Simon Thomas has long been an advocate for Welsh teams joining the premiership.

    He routinely mentions that the worst decision ever by Welsh rugby was not taking the 5 places offered to Wales to join the English club structure back in 1998

    He's spot on!

    I'd happily take Saracens in the Pro X for a season. Its not really feasible for them getting back into the Premiership, but then if there is no Championship (is that what is being suggested?) then where else do they play?


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    #75
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Thanks for this. If no crowds for 6 months surely we could see some clubs literally going under.

    The UK govt need to rethink this.

    Yes the fight against Covid is much more important, nobody will dispute that, but a blanket ban on spectators watchingive sport makes no sense.

    No one is suggesting we pack grounds to the limit, and yes there may be localised restrictions depending on events on the ground. But if you are able to go to an indoor venue (pub/restaurant) then you can surely get grounds up to 20% full at least.

    Stagger arrival times and departure times...yes it would be a logistical challenge, but it can be done. Make people wear masks, cover the place with sanitiser stations. Stick a £10 or €10 Covid premium of the price of tickets, people will pay it just to see live sport. Even £/€20 and I reckon people will still go. It's outdoors, we're constantly told the virus is much less of a threat outdoors.


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    #76
    Paul Smeenus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    600 fans at the Ulster game on Friday.


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    #77
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Pro 16 is happening.

    http://www.fscheetahs.co.za/news/toyota-cheetahs-reviewing-their-options-20200929
    The Toyota Cheetahs managed to negotiate its participation as a fifth franchise in a Super 8 competition, with additional income.

    The four metro franchises were voted in to participate in the PRO16 competition in Europe.

    According to Harold Verster, Managing Director of the Free State Cheetahs, the Cheetahs reserve their rights.

    The implications of the business model have to be assessed and the board will decide on the way forward.

    The local competitions are exciting and offer a good prospect because of the fact that it is a competition that all fourteen South-African franchises will be taking part in after which a Currie Cup double round, home and away, will take place with all eight teams.


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    #78
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    The Cheetahs are undercutting Celtic Rugby and SA Rugby by releasing that statement. Unfortunately they were the odd team out.


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    #79
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,272 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah, but they were in the Pro14 in the first place because they were the odd team out and this was their backup. Now their backup has been pulled out from under them - I can understand their frustration.


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    #80
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,176 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    The Cheetahs are undercutting Celtic Rugby and SA Rugby by releasing that statement. Unfortunately they were the odd team out.

    I don't blame them. They've been totally screwed over here. They were actually contributing to the Pro14, unlike the Kings.


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    #81
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,986 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    they are a glorified currie cup level team.

    Let them concentrate on that competition to progress professionally, because they will not progress with the status quo in celtic league rugby


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    #82
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    they are a glorified currie cup level team.

    Let them concentrate on that competition to progress professionally, because they will not progress with the status quo in celtic league rugby

    The Cheetahs qualified for the playoffs in their first season, missed out in the second and were in contention in their third before COVID-19 struck. This was despite a revolving door of players which included departees to the Super Rugby sides during the Pro14 season. They benefitted massively from playing at altitude but they were worth their place. They contributed a lot to the league. Some are lumping in with the Kings which is like comparing Cardiff to Zebre.
    Buer wrote: »
    I don't blame them. They've been totally screwed over here. They were actually contributing to the Pro14, unlike the Kings.



    It's heartbreaking for the supporters.


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    #83
    AdamD
    Registered Users Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    The Cheetahs have been pretty shafted here. Suits the league to get the big 4 teams in though


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    #84
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,358 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    They had 3 games against the kings every year and practically lose no players during test windows.

    The cheetahs aren’t that good.


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    #85
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    awec wrote: »
    They had 3 games against the kings every year and practically lose no players during test windows.

    The cheetahs aren’t that good.

    Yeah, imagine getting hammered by them! :pac:
    https://www.ulsterrugby.com/report/toyota-cheetahs-63-ulster-26/#report

    Look, they aren't that good and had massive advantages. However they didn't lose players during test windows because they had barely any test players in the first place. The likes of Mampimpi and Ox Nche got out of there at the first opportunity.


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    #86
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,986 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    The Cheetahs qualified for the playoffs in their first season, just missed out in the second and were in contention in their third before COVID-19 struck.

    They contributed a lot to the league. Some are lumping in with the Kings which is like comparing Cardiff to Zebre.

    im not arguing against that.

    im saying their level is to be vying for the currie cup each season (won it last year!)

    the cheetahs squads is essentially the free state cheetahs squad... a currie cup team.

    what im saying is each of the 4 super rugby franchise SA squads will be better than the cheetahs.

    the last time the cheetahs competed with the other Super Rugby franchises in a competitive league (2016), they finished 2nd last of the booke teams (ahead of the kings unsurprisingly.. but on only 21 points... exactly half that of the next bokke team, the bulls , on 42 points. in 2015 they finished last, no kings that year.

    so what im arguing is the cheetahs are easily the worst of the possible 5 bokke teams that could enter the celtic league... and for the leagues sake, id much prefer the best 4 to join.


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    #87
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,635 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    The Cheetahs are undercutting Celtic Rugby and SA Rugby by releasing that statement. Unfortunately they were the odd team out.

    There's been rumblings for a while now. Guess they're naturally not too happy with the outcome for them


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    #88
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,176 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    they are a glorified currie cup level team.

    Let them concentrate on that competition to progress professionally, because they will not progress with the status quo in celtic league rugby

    Yes, they are.

    But that still puts them at a better level than a large chunk of the Pro14. They made the playoffs in their first season and were in with a very strong chance of making them this season before the season was curtailed.

    Their biggest problem was player retention. They had a very good first season, got absolutely pillaged the summer after, had a poor year then with a significantly weakened squad and then bounced back to be decent again this season.

    If they had sustained presence in the league along with the money that would come with it, I could see them being genuine contenders within the next few years. Instead, they've been dumped.

    With the others competing in Europe, it will be very interesting to see how many of their top players stick around or do some of them move to Europe and use it as a shop window the same as Cheetahs players did.


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    #89
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,742 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    It's tough on the Cheetahs, and if a way can be found to keep them involved then great...but if not then we need to look after ourselves. Rugby, like many things is in a financially perilous state. If this move helps Irish rugby, then so be it.

    Having the Bulls, Sharks, Lions and Stormers in the league will be incredible. Shame if it comes at the expense of the Cheetahs, but we need to look after ourselves here.


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    #90
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,986 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Buer wrote: »
    Yes, they are.

    But that still puts them at a better level than a large chunk of the Pro14. They made the playoffs in their first season and were in with a very strong chance of making them this season before the season was curtailed.

    Their biggest problem was player retention. They had a very good first season, got absolutely pillaged the summer after, had a poor year then with a significantly weakened squad and then bounced back to be decent again this season.

    If they had sustained presence in the league along with the money that would come with it, I could see them being genuine contenders within the next few years. Instead, they've been dumped.

    With the others competing in Europe, it will be very interesting to see how many of their top players stick around or do some of them move to Europe and use it as a shop window the same as Cheetahs players did.

    their best players will do what their best players have done for the past number of seasons... they will join better teams.
    Last year Ox Nche and henco venter, two of their best players, head off to the sharks. They are a feeder team to the bigger clubs, that their reality.

    i have sympathy for them, but give a cold hard choice of the cheetahs instead of any of the other 4 franchises... no thanks. each of the SA franchises which comes in will be at least competitive, and a couple will have aims to win it.

    That sympathy is tempered to a degree however when you consider that the celtic league offered them a lifeline where no other competition existed for them.


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    #91
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,358 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The bulls, sharks, stormers and lions need to ensure they keep their best players. That's going to be hard without europe.

    This is good news so long as they maintain their standard, and don't get dragged down by a drain of talent.


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