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25-06-2019, 12:53   #106
celt262
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You'd almost feel sorry for em if it wasn't Meath. It's almost soothing to see Dublin beat the stuffing out of them and humiliate them. It's a shame Cavan can't get them next round, we'd batter them again. El Classico lol
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25-06-2019, 12:54   #107
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You'd almost feel sorry for em if it wasn't Meath. It's almost soothing to see Dublin beat the stuffing out of them and humiliate them. It's a shame Cavan can't get them next round, we'd batter them again. El Classico lol
In fairness when Dublin played the Kerry team in thier pomp 70's/80's it was dressed up as a rivalry. When Kerry invariably were the top dogs.

I was looking at the match programme there was some entertaining stuff in it. but it was really a lament for days gone by.
The programme writers main focus is on the past rather than the present.
It sums it up really they do not even pretend there is a contest anymore.
In saying that though I enjoyed the Leinster final (9 in a row game) but I have a feeling I might be in the minority.
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25-06-2019, 13:00   #108
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In fairness when Dublin played the Kerry team in thier pomp 70's/80's it was dressed up as a rivalry. When Kerry invariably were the top dogs.

I was looking at the match programme there was some entertaining stuff in it. but it was really a lament for days gone by.
The programme writers main focus is on the past rather than the present.
It sums it up really they do not even pretend there is a contest anymore.
In saying that though I enjoyed the Leinster final (9 in a row game) but I have a feeling I might be in the minority.
Can I ask what you enjoyed about it?

The game, the occasion, lifting a cup? Do Dublin fans still get joy from a Delaney Cup?
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25-06-2019, 13:14   #109
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Absolutely, also it was a decent game for 55 minutes
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25-06-2019, 13:23   #110
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Absolutely, also it was a decent game for 55 minutes
It was close. It was a terrible game.
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25-06-2019, 13:25   #111
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Says the Cavan buck.
1 Ulster in the last 50 years.
67 years since an All Ireland.

indeed.

You really should have more cops than to mock Meath
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25-06-2019, 13:26   #112
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Can I ask what you enjoyed about it?

The game, the occasion, lifting a cup? Do Dublin fans still get joy from a Delaney Cup?
I just enjoyed watching the game how it unfolded - Meath were only four down at half time having missed lots of chances.
It was competitive for about 50 minutes
Both teams had to overcome the weather.
Dublin had to figure out how to overcome Meath's defensive tactics
Meath had plenty of chances to get scores, there was plenty of times where a Meath goal would have really changed the dynamic of the game.

In the second half -
There was some lovely patterns of play from Dublin and some lovely scores despite the terrible weather conditions

If another team with players who can get the ball quickly, to quality forwards I can see Dublin under pressure.
Donegal have the players to do that.
I think Meath basically got half thier gameplan right, but from an attacking point of view it was all over the place.
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25-06-2019, 14:07   #113
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It was close. It was a terrible game.
I am confused at times by what people want from a game of football? (and i dont mean you specifically Flexicon)

There was some great (clean) defending on both sides, and a real bite to it for large periods. As above Meaths game plan was sound, just let down by the forwards (shot selection). Maybe it was lost not being there? Some cracking scores second half.

I feel people want to watch a game where the attack dominates the defence, or the defence is non existent (like Kerry Cork, which I enjoyed as well). There are different ways to play the game.
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25-06-2019, 14:29   #114
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El Clasico is a stretch. There was a sequence of dour/cynical replays in the early 90s, apart from that I am not sure this has been much of a rivalry, I would have maybe thought Dublin Kerry would have been the classic football rivalry.

Again that is misinformed paragraph. There was a couple of replays in the 90s anf that was it has to be an understatement. Ask anyone in 80s and 90s what was the biggest game in football , it was Meath v Dublin.

1 There was 5 Meath v Dublin leinster finals in a row between 1986 and 1990.

2 In total in those 6 years , there was 12 matchs between Meath v Dublin. 10 championship matchs and National league div 1 final and replay. There was only a point or two between the sides in each of those games game.

3 Between 1984 and 2001 , In 17 years there was 11 Meath v Dublin leinster finals. Between 1984 and 1996 there was 9 Meath v Dublin leinster finals in 12 years.

4 These games were sellouts and were very competitive where u had two of best teams in the country going toe to toe in fierce football battles. It was the biggest game in football between 1984 to mid 00s. Cork v kerry is a myth of rivalry. Other then late 80s early 90s Kerry have dominated that rivalry from start to finish. Galway and Mayo is a great traditional rivalry. But in the 20 year period mentioned above only in late 90s did the rivalry ignite again. Tyrone and Armagh is great local rivalry but only caught attention of the country in the 00s. But Meath v Dublin for well over 20 years was the biggest game in football.

Ask the Dubs and they will tell u what those games mean to Dublin and the one team love to beat more then any is Meath. It called a rivalry . Even Alan Brogan when he broke onto Dublin team in 2002 said when he first broke onto Dublin team his main aim was not to win Sam. It was to beat Meath. Not to win Sam or leinster it was to beat Meath. Not that long a highlight of Dublins players season was to beat Meath.

The rivalry is 70 to 80 years old. It starts in 1940s and takes off in 1950s. There is great battles in the 40s and 50s between Meath v Dublin. Between 1945 to 1955 there was 7 Dublin v Meath championship matchs. Massive games where two of the best teams in the country went toe to toe . This is the first great Meath team v first great Dublin team ( all Dublin players ). There battles in Croke Park Navan . The rivalry continue into early 60s with great matchs Meath v. Dublin in early 60s.

The rivalry went mute in late 1960s but reignites in 1970s. There was 3 leinster Meath and Dublin in 4 years between 1974 and 1977 . Great matchs. Very tight affairs. Every year Dubin Sam in 1974 1976 1977 and 1983 there was Meath v Dublin matchs in those years and Dublins toughest game in those year were nearly always Meath. Dublin players of the 70s admitted the tough battles with Meath 1974 1976 1977 were massive in those years in build up to playing kerry. Meath could have won in 1974 should have won in 1976 and how they didnt win 1977 who knows after Meath dominated the second half . This was the year Dublin won two in a row and hammered kerry and Armagh in semi final and final afterwards.

The rivalry ignited again in 1983 and for next quater of century with exception of 1995 the average winning score was 2 or 3 points. And for 25 years u had drama contervesey great games great players great moments which became the biggest rivalry in the country and at its height saved gaelic football after Italia 1990.

In 1983 It begins. Meath are excellent but Goalie Tormey makes two howlers. Dublin draw the match. In the replay again led by Colm O Rourke Meath are excellent but Dublin hold on in extra time to beat Meath and go on to win Sam. In 1984 leinster final in scorching summers day Meath missing Mick lyons go close to beating Dublin. Meath miss a peno but Barney Rock is the difference. In 1986 Meath cause one biggest shocks dethtoning Dublin in leinster final. Meath beat Dublin in 3 leinster finals and league div 1 final between 1986 and 1988. As the rivalry reachs fever pitch. In 1989 leinster finals Dublin dethrone Meath after winning Vinny Murphy goal. In the following year in another titanic battle in 1990 leinster final Meath hold onto beat Dublin again.

In 1991 of course u have the four game between Meath and Dublin which changes face of gaelic football. First games with sponsorship on Jerseys, first championship game not a Sunday first live game on tv not All Ireland semi final or final. 4 games were a massive turning point in gaa. With Italia 90 and crowds attendances plummeting in early to mid 1980s. In 1982 only 16000 turned up to see kerry v Armagh All Ireland semi final.

Meath v Dublin games where full houses and now front pages news. While kerry v Dublin began a new interest in gaa , gaa attendances were plummeting after that rivalry. Prior to 91 GAA was seen as backward conservative and rural. Those 4 games are the moment the gaa became modern and hugely popular and even maybe cool. Before 1991 the gaa was popular but it was seen as conservative rural and really uncool. In the 80s u would never gaa player of manager on say the late late Show the biggest tv show in the country. Glenroe most popular tv show in the country at the time , set in rural Wicklow yet there was no mention of GAA. Dick Moran only played rugby. The GAA was kind of seen as played in the sticks with bogball. After 91 things changed. Players like Dj Carey and Jason Sherlock were now stars celebrity's. Even RTE sunday prime show was based on a gaa club in rural Ireland eg Home Ground. The gaa was everywhere and had actually become cool. 1991 and the 4 games is the beginning of this.

In 1993 again another close battle where Dublin hang onto a one point. In 1994 Leinster final in a full Croke Park.with Alex Ferguson and young Liam Gallagher in attendance to . watch a tight tense gripping contest where Dublin hold on for one point win with Graham Geraghty scoring the goal of the year. In 1995 Dublin hammered Meath by ten points in leinater final and the celebrations by Dub supporters afterwards and players was like they had won Sam Maguire.

The 4 games between Meath v Dublin in 5 years , 3 of them were leinster final. Meath beat Dublin in 1996 97 99 and 01 in.full houses in tight gripping games Dublin and Meath was now officially now biggest rivalry in football if not gaa. In the 00s Dublin had the upper hand with great wins in 2002 , 2005 , 2007 and 2009. But again these were massive games very competitive which could have went eitheir way. Again massive crowd great games and great moments. The drawn game in 2007 was especially a classic as well as the drawn game. In 2010 u had another great Meath v Dublin moment with Meaths five goal win, a record win over Dublin in leinster. 2012 2013 leinster finals brought 60000 plus to see competitive games. But since 2014 games became very one sided and is now one sided rivalry .

Beginning in the 1940s and taking of in 1950s , reigniting with 3 great leinster finals in 1970s and again a modern version of the rivalry explodes into life in 1983 , with 11 Meath v Dublin leinster finals in 15 years the rivalry in the 80s and 90s becomes the biggest not just football but in Irish sport. Universally in the gaa in the 80s 90s and even 00s Meath v Dublin was been named and called as the biggest rivalry in gaelic football. To say otherwise would be a falsehood.

Regards kerry and Dublin. Yet a great traditional rivalry of two most successful counties but there is allot of myth around kerry and Dublin rivalry. In thats it was never a close rivalry.

Meath and Dublin went toe to toe with each other for 80 years.

From 1930s to 2010 Dublin won 9 All Irelands, in the same period Meath won 7 All Irelands.

From 1930s to 2010 Dublin won 9 All Irelands and in the same period kerry won 28 All Irelands.

From 1941 to 2010 70 years or so Dublin beat kerry twice in championship eg 1976 1977. Dublin went 43 years before they beat Dublin in championship in 1976. And when Dublin beat kerry in championship in 2011 it was first victory in championship over kerry in 34 years. Dublin have won all championship meetings in this decade eg 2011 2013 2015. So its a rivalry where one team.dominates.

Kerry v Dublin rivalry of 70s and 80s was a myth after 1977. Yes it was massive rivalry in getting interest in Dublin gaa. But after 1977 it so one sided. Compared to Meath v Dublin where in 30 matchs in 30 years there was only point or two in games between Meath v Dublin Dublin. Kerry v Dublin was very one sided

kerry beat Dublin in 1941 , 1955 , 1959 , 1962 , 1965 and 1975.

When Dublin defeated kerry in 1976 it was Dublins first win over kerry in the championship in 43 years, their first win since 1934 over kerry. After 1977 victory it would be 34 years before Dublin would beat kerry again.

Before 2011 Dublin had beaten kerry 4 times in the championship eg 1893 , 1909 , 1924 and 1934. Before 2011 kerry had beaten Dublin 17 times .

1978 kerry beat Dublin by 17 points
1979 kerry beat Dublin by 11 points
1984 kerry beat Dublin by 5 points. Dublin score 1- 6 Dublins lowest score v
kerry since 1955 in another very one sided game
1985 kerry beat Dublin by 4 points with kerry ahead by 9 points at half time.
2001 Drawn game and replay were close games with kerry one point victors again
2004 kerry beat Dublin by 7 points
2007 The game is much tighter and kerry win by 2 points
2009 kerry beat Dublin by 17 points.

So between 1983 and 2010 the average winning margin of Meath v Dublin game was 3 points. Between 1978 to 2010 the average winning margin for kerry victory over Dublin was 8 points.

And this decade the rivalry has swung to Dublin. Kerry cannot beat Dublin in this decade the same way Dublin couldnt beat kerry (only for 76 77) for 70 years in the championship.
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25-06-2019, 14:46   #115
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I made mistake above I should have said before 2011 Dublin beat kerry 6 times eg 1893, 1909, 1924 , 1934 ,1976 1977 .

So in summary at the time from journalist to pundits to tv to radio, supporters nationwide and other teams it was universally said and accepted that for about 25 to 30 years in 80s 90s and 00s Meath v Dublin was consistently the biggest rivalry in gaelic football and some people were labelling it the biggest rivalry in the gaa. The Dubs supporters who where around at the time will back that one up..And I think other supporters from other counties would also agree who were around at the time.

Tyrone and Armagh had a great rivalry in 00s , Mayo v Galway in late 90s , Cork and kerry was a massive game but it is alway being so one sided, the rivalry is a myth. Donegal Derry Down had great rivalries in early 90s. Tipp v Clare in late 90s , Tipp v Galway in late 80s, Kilkenny v Offaly in 80s , Wexford v Kilkenny in 80s , Cork v Tipp in 80s and early 90s were great rivalries in hurling. But Meath v Dublin in 1980s , 1990s and into the 00s was two of the best teams in the country playing in packed houses in very close games and it was widely said at the time Meath v Dublin was the biggest rivalry in football if not gaa. In that at its peak it lasted really from 1983 to 2013. And while 80s and 90s were highpoint it wasnt til 2014 it became so one sided. It was a massive rivalry back in its heyday.

Last edited by Sonny678; 25-06-2019 at 15:14.
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25-06-2019, 15:52   #116
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How do you counter Whealans argument that most of the lads who won in 2011 were out of school when the development money kicked? And if the development money is so releveant why have Dublin produced poor (relatively) underage teams for the last few years? If it is so important surely you'd expect to see dominance across all levels but especially underage level. That seems compelling evidence to suggest Jim Gavin and the culture at Senior level are the problem for the rest for the country. Kildare and Meath have no problem beating the development money when they're under 18.

The funding debate has its merits but there are too many fools with green eyes leading the charge imo. They're purposely out to devalue the achievements of a brilliant generation of players.
Did he really say that? The paid coaches only go into schools? Is this some form of joke? Also, the elite part of the whole scheme is essential to producing players, this keeps being ignored. You can look up the 2011 team and see how many came through that if you wish. Whelan knows exactly what's going on which makes those comments especially galling.
And Dublin have won 27 underage titles in hurling and football since the money began. A huge increase on their success levels before. That's actual evidence and shows what the money has done.
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25-06-2019, 15:59   #117
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And the lads who replaced them are literally all from the same minor team in 2011. A Tyrone golden generation effect if you will.

Look they're not being grown by euros in an incubation chamber. During all the time of swimming in this money we've had one brilliant minor team. Just one. McCaffrey, Costello, KK, Mannion, Scully, Byrne, Small, Lowndes and Fenton (same age group but didn't make the team) all in the same year. They didn't even win ffs. What happened to the Tipp team that beat them? Maybe a lack of money meant they forgot how to play football when they became adults. If money was the primary driver Dublins senior team would be made up of one or two players from each year the funds have been in place.

Lots of group think involved in this debate. People repeating in an echo chamber that games development funds created Dublin dominance. But the evidence would suggest funds haven't really delivered a sustained effect for Dublin. Arguably we've had a dreadful return when you look at the talent coming through in Kerry. Jim Gavin and the culture within the group at senior level are greater influences of Dublins success. I don't see how that can be disputed if the observer is truly impartial.

But then again games development isn't about creating a super Dublin. Its about getting people playing gaelic games in the capital. A great success in this regard and I'd dismiss anyone who laments that tbh.
What are you talking about? Absolute nonsense! Dublin have won 5 Leinster and 1 All Ireland at minor level since the money began but where the elite programs come to fruition is at u21/u20 grade, the whole program is set up to produce players ready for senior and the 8 Leinster championships and 4 All Ireland's at u21 level shows that the highly funded program is working!
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25-06-2019, 16:06   #118
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What are you talking about? Absolute nonsense! Dublin have won 5 Leinster and 1 All Ireland at minor level since the money began but where the elite programs come to fruition is at u21/u20 grade, the whole program is set up to produce players ready for senior and the 8 Leinster championships and 4 All Ireland's at u21 level shows that the highly funded program is working!
Lots of hyperbole and you don't know what you're talking about. Won't derail the thread further.
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25-06-2019, 16:10   #119
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Lots of hyperbole and you don't know what you're talking about. Won't derail the thread further.
What? I come in with actual facts that shows you were talking nonsense when you said "But the evidence would suggest funds haven't really delivered a sustained effect for Dublin". It's been the biggest transformation in success levels across all grades and codes that we've ever seen in the GAA. That's not hyperbole, that's fact and can be backed up.
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26-06-2019, 10:38   #120
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I am confused at times by what people want from a game of football? (and i dont mean you specifically Flexicon)

There was some great (clean) defending on both sides, and a real bite to it for large periods. As above Meaths game plan was sound, just let down by the forwards (shot selection). Maybe it was lost not being there? Some cracking scores second half.

I feel people want to watch a game where the attack dominates the defence, or the defence is non existent (like Kerry Cork, which I enjoyed as well). There are different ways to play the game.
I want to see two sides as evenly matched as possible play to their full potential in an attempt to win a given game.

I prefer to see competitiveness on both side of the ball. I didn't think the Munster final was a particularly good game as it was too gung ho with forwards seemingly having the freedom to pick off scores without any pressure being put on them.

I was in Croke Park on Sunday and thought the quality defensively from both teams in the first half was excellent but neither set of forwards covered themselves in glory. No score for the first 18 minutes I think. Conditions also played their part and the pitch seemed to become a bit of an ice ring stopping a good portion of quality ball being put in both forward lines.
Meath also deployed a 1 man full forward line at times with undersized James Conlan lost in behind 2 Dublin defenders that caused any Meath counter attacks to stall at midfield as there was no option inside.
When Dublin put the boot down after 50 minutes I thought they started to show what they are capable of and had some beautiful sequences of play finishing with good scores.
I would pay in to any ground in the country to watch Paul Mannion play. I think he is as good a footballer as we've seen and if he were with a team who struggled a bit more he would be the darling of the media.
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