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Meath v Dublin El Classico of Gaelic Football

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    #62
    TCM
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭TCM


    gormdubhgorm wrote:
    In fairness to Meath those conditions did not really suit thier gameplan, Conlon not as effective in conditions like that, He needed to be playing on a dry day, with quick low ball coming into him on the counter.


    Indeed. Wouldn't Dublin have been playing on that dry day also.


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    #63
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    I would say things could change very quickly in about 5 years.
    All it take is a poor manager and the whole thing could fall apart.
    I am trying to soak it all up and just admire the play, this team won't last forever. And when I am an auld fella, people will still be talking about this team I think.

    Sure even as a Dub I still shudder, when I think of those old Meath teams where an opposing team would not feel comfortable until they were 7 ahead of Meath.


    I'm certain that like Cody, Gavin will try and leave a system behind - assuming either of them ever calls it a day!

    But as Cats regression to the mean proves, systems are only as good as the human resources invested in them.

    From what I see of underage football, Dublin have nothing like the stream coming through which there was ten years ago. And again key factor there was JG and his management team.

    So, it will end.


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    #64
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Strumms wrote: »
    And probably deserve to if they did.

    A rather provocative yet humorous slant from the 42 site...

    “Under par Dublin defeat Meath by 16 points to claim record 9th Leinster crown in-a-row”:pac:
    Never said they wouldn’t.
    What’s humorous about that? It seems like a pretty accurate headline. Dublin were poor for long periods by their standards.


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    #65
    Stoner
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Hammer Archer wrote:
    Never said they wouldn’t. What’s humorous about that? It seems like a pretty accurate headline. Dublin were poor for long periods by their standards.


    That's true, I couldn't get to the game today, but I was thinking at halftime having watched the Ulster final that a team with forwards like Donegal would be rubbing their hands. Meath got into good positions but just couldn't put it over the bar


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    #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Just signed in to thank the OP, and to say the four best games of football I've ever attended, or watched, were the Dublin-Meath matches in the summer of 1991. The incredible risings from the dead time and time again were just amazing.

    I attended all four of them as a kid and the absolute sense of awe in the crowd each time the score was levelled was just out of this world. The craic and banter between Dublin and Meath fans in all matches was a great tribute to everybody and to our games. I remember one guy was a big inebriated and wanted to start a fight and some other lad jumped in "Ah come on now, lads; we're all Irish here!" and that was the end of it. And there was a huge sense of pride which informed behaviour, and that was in no small part due to the extraordinary quality of each of the four games.

    I've been a great fan of replays ever since, even though at the time some incredible killjoys in the media were demanding that the GAA stop them because apparently supporters were being taken advantage of. The best money I've ever spent on entertainment (along with attending some superb hurling matches in the mid-late 1990s).


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    #67
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    I'm certain that like Cody, Gavin will try and leave a system behind - assuming either of them ever calls it a day!

    But as Cats regression to the mean proves, systems are only as good as the human resources invested in them.

    From what I see of underage football, Dublin have nothing like the stream coming through which there was ten years ago. And again key factor there was JG and his management team.

    So, it will end.
    But to be fair, Dublin don’t need the same stream of talent to come through. All they need is 2 or 3 from every minor/U20 panel to make the grade and replace lads that retire. They’ve got such a strong base that if they manage that, they’re likely to be totally dominant in Leinster at the very least until 2030.


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    #68
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    But to be fair, Dublin don’t need the same stream of talent to come through. All they need is 2 or 3 from every minor/U20 panel to make the grade and replace lads that retire. They’ve got such a strong base that if they manage that, they’re likely to be totally dominant in Leinster at the very least until 2030.


    Dublin will always be competitive, but not necessarily dominant. Sonny knows the history better than me but even in Dublin's down years - 1964 - 74, they won one Leinster (1965), one league (1965) and got to another league final against the three in a row Galway side (1967) the year Meath won AI.

    All the big counties have had lean spells including the three great hurling counties, and even Kerry 1986 - 97. The cycle will turn again.


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    #69
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,804 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Never said they wouldn’t.
    What’s humorous about that? It seems like a pretty accurate headline. Dublin were poor for long periods by their standards.

    Wouldn’t say they were ever ‘poor’ in that game by any standard that’s overstating it but they did go through periods where perhaps they took the foot of the gas for five minutes. Good game management. That’s not to be unexpected or a bad thing when you’ve so many points to play with as well as a great ability to retain the ball and having a full summer schedule ahead.

    I’d be happy for them to win by 12 and leave with a squad of fully fit guys as opposed to busting a gut for 20 with a couple of hamstrings gone. You need to win smart too.


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    #70
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,770 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Strumms wrote: »
    Wouldn’t say they were ever ‘poor’ in that game by any standard that’s overstating it but they did go through periods where perhaps they took the foot of the gas for five minutes. Good game management. That’s not to be unexpected or a bad thing when you’ve so many points to play with as well as a great ability to retain the ball and having a full summer schedule ahead.

    I’d be happy for them to win by 12 and leave with a squad of fully fit guys as opposed to busting a gut for 20 with a couple of hamstrings gone. You need to win smart too.


    Coasting in second gear and moving into third according to Spillane apparently.


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    #71
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,804 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Coasting in second gear and moving into third according to Spillane apparently.


    They coasted in the latter parts of the game but with such a lead and a busy summer ahead that’s smart.


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    #72
    DellyBelly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭DellyBelly


    I thought Meath did will to keep it below 20 points. I really thought Dublin would do it by over 20. I can see Meath being very competitive in maybe 5-10 years time. I can't see them beat Dublin in that time but definitely get within 10 or less points.


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    #73
    Wildly Boaring
    Registered Users Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭Wildly Boaring


    Meath's attack was very ineffective. They could have kept in closer for longer with a bit of inventiveness.

    Easy to say and hard to sort.

    Newman seemed to drift out a lot and really only seemed to leave Conlon v 2 inside.

    If that's going to be the plan guys need to come at pace through the 45 heading for goal.

    They defended well and seemed to sort the kick outs after and early blip. Good to see early subs.

    They actually looked at the races for 40 mins.

    Dubs pulled away and have serious firepower on the bench.

    Gonna be hard for meath in 2 weeks after that finale. Div 1 next year is the real shining light. Onwards and upwards!!!


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    #74
    TrueGael
    Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭TrueGael


    Once a great rivalry, killed stone dead forever thanks to sustained financial doping

    #ThanksHQ


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    #75
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    TrueGael wrote: »
    Once a great rivalry, killed stone dead forever thanks to sustained financial doping

    #ThanksHQ


    Is that why meath kicked wides all day. Money?


    How much money did stafford, o'rourke and flynn get?


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    #76
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,804 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    Meath's attack was very ineffective !

    Yes, I think though Dublin full backs and half backs seemed to play very close together, leaving no space in between the two lines, Meath didn’t seem to have the want to go long and direct as probably thought fruitless due to not having enough physical forwards up there to compete and ended up hitting a brick wall time after time... credit for the Dublin defense for showing that sort of organization, discipline and drive over the 70 minutes. Impressive !


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    #77
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Force Carrier wrote: »
    Is that why meath kicked wides all day. Money?


    How much money did stafford, o'rourke and flynn get?
    If those lads played today they'd probably be off playing Aussie Rules or just stick with the club.
    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Sad times for football in general. The gap between Dublin and the rest just seems to grow every year. To illustrate that, Meath were 16/1 to win today in a two horse race. After Dublin’s All Ireland last year, Dublin were 11/1 to win every single All Ireland championship from 2019 until 2024 (i.e. to go on and do 10 in a row).

    I’ve seen people mention that Donegal are Dublin’s closest challengers. But this is the same Donegal that Meath should have beaten once, if not twice, in the league. Donegal could possibly keep the score within 10 points but Dublin would still win at a canter.
    Donegal are class. I feel if the chasing pack of kerry, Mayo, galway, Tyrone and roscommon and donegal get hammered the sport is ****ed. Players in those counties will eventually lose interest too and as long as Dublin keep winning with Gavin at the helm they won't ease up.

    I predict Dublins team in 10 years will be better then the team now. I wonder how many AI's and Leinster's Dublin will have to win in a row before a county puts forward a motion and the rest vote it in redirecting the funds to other counties that need it. As of now they are either too afraid or don't care enough to kick up a fuss.

    DellyBelly wrote: »
    I thought Meath did will to keep it below 20 points. I really thought Dublin would do it by over 20. I can see Meath being very competitive in maybe 5-10 years time. I can't see them beat Dublin in that time but definitely get within 10 or less points.

    If Meaths hopes are getting with 10 points of Dublin we will struggle to ever get the best 15 players in the county to commit. I do think Meath will be better in 10 years but so will Dublin. The best we can hope for in the next 10 years id5a division 1 league title.


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    #78
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    in redirecting the funds to other counties that need it.

    So your forwards could kick the ball straight if they had funds is it?


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    #79
    manofwisdom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭manofwisdom


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Sad times for football in general. The gap between Dublin and the rest just seems to grow every year. To illustrate that, Meath were 16/1 to win today in a two horse race. After Dublin’s All Ireland last year, Dublin were 11/1 to win every single All Ireland championship from 2019 until 2024 (i.e. to go on and do 10 in a row).

    I’ve seen people mention that Donegal are Dublin’s closest challengers. But this is the same Donegal that Meath should have beaten once, if not twice, in the league. Donegal could possibly keep the score within 10 points but Dublin would still win at a canter.




    Not the same Donegal as they rarely take the league serious at all and why they found themselves in Div 2 to begin with. Everything about them is championship ready/focus, last year they lost by only 5 points to Dublin in Croke Park and have since added Rochford to their management team who as seen with Mayo knows how to competitive v Dublin.



    The amount of effort Meath put into the league has caught up with them it seems as they looked wrecked in the 2nd half v Dublin.


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    #80
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,804 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    The arguing or even mention of funding in the aftermath of the win is nothing but begrudgery. Dollar signs don’t pay for producing players, a team and a setup like they have. The overriding factors involved in EVERYTHING there today, is hard work, teamwork, skill, attitude, organization and desire, to win and be the best. That’s the formula, to be applauded, used as a template. Off the pitch as well as on it. That’s something you won’t take away by ripping up cheques.


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    #81
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Force Carrier wrote: »
    So your forwards could kick the ball straight if they had funds is it?

    There's no doubt our forwards would be more skillful if we'd over a million a year invested for the development of underage players over the last 20 years. Naturally the standard of coaching and the numbers playing would be much higher.

    That was meaths worst forward performance all year. There's no doubt mentally they were terrified of the Dubs. Can't blame them really and every year that goes by with another big Dublin defeat it will get worse. The problem is the players know that even if they shoot the lights out they'll still likely be well beaten. That can't be easy to burden.


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    #82
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    Strumms wrote: »
    The arguing or even mention of funding in the aftermath of the win is nothing but begrudgery. Dollar signs don’t pay for producing players, a team and a setup like they have. The overriding factors involved in EVERYTHING there today, is hard work, teamwork, skill, attitude, organization and desire, to win and be the best. That’s the formula, to be applauded, used as a template. Off the pitch as well as on it. That’s something you won’t take away by ripping up cheques.
    Are you suggesting the meath players are not giving everything to the cause? They've given up their lives for the cause since last November. With no hope of provincial glory you have to admire their dedication. It can't be easy.


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    #83
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    Force Carrier wrote: »
    So your forwards could kick the ball straight if they had funds is it?
    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    There's no doubt our forwards would be more skillful if we'd over a million a year invested for the development of underage players over the last 20 years.


    That's bullsh1t. You're shown how to kick a ball when you're five. After that it's practice, practice, practice. And what's in your genes.


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    #84
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    Force Carrier wrote: »
    So your forwards could kick the ball straight if they had funds is it?

    There's no doubt our forwards would be more skillful if we'd over a million a year invested for the development of underage players over the last 20 years. Naturally the standard of coaching and the numbers playing would be much higher.

    That was meaths worst forward performance all year. There's no doubt mentally they were terrified of the Dubs. Can't blame them really and every year that goes by with another big Dublin defeat it will get worse. The problem is the players know that even if they shoot the lights out they'll still likely be well beaten. That can't be easy to burden.
    So that takes care of Dublin.

    How does that explain meaths regression beyond many other teams who get less money?

    For all the talk of Dublin killing Leinaterz there is still a chance for all of the province to progress via the qualifiers and it's an age since Meath did anything in that. Hope they can make the super 8s this year. A competitive Meath is good for football


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    #85
    rpurfield
    Registered Users Posts: 2,103 ✭✭✭rpurfield


    Strumms wrote: »
    The arguing or even mention of funding in the aftermath of the win is nothing but begrudgery. Dollar signs don’t pay for producing players, a team and a setup like they have. The overriding factors involved in EVERYTHING there today, is hard work, teamwork, skill, attitude, organization and desire, to win and be the best. That’s the formula, to be applauded, used as a template. Off the pitch as well as on it. That’s something you won’t take away by ripping up cheques.

    It won't change it now because the system is in place, but you can't deny having the money in the last ten or twelve years to put coaches into schools and run all sorts of courses and all that comes with it has created the system. If you can't see that you are ignoring what's plain as day. However I'd agree suddenly cutting the funding now won't pull Dublin back into the pack. You've a highly sucessful team that sponsors want to be associated with and a lot of people look up to, that creates it's own momentum. The move now needs to be for some of the money to go elsewhere to try and drag some other teams up to the level that Leinster becomes a competition again.


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    #86
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    Are you suggesting the meath players are not giving everything to the cause? They've given up their lives for the cause since last November. With no hope of provincial glory you have to admire their dedication. It can't be easy.


    the logic of what you said above implies that Dublin players are being paid, and that this is the difference between them and Meath.

    Is that the reason Ballyboden under McEntee would quite possibly have beaten Meath when Boden were at their best?

    There is such a thing as better players and teams.

    Meath used to be that.


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    #87
    gmurphy70
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭gmurphy70


    El Classico is right, that was possibly the worst performance in a Leinster final ever? Putrid stuff..


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    #88
    Always_Running
    Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Always_Running


    gmurphy70 wrote: »
    El Classico is right, that was possibly the worst performance in a Leinster final ever? Putrid stuff..


    2nd half was very poor by Meath. At least 1st half they were competitive just four points down and had held Dublin to a mere 0-5.


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    #89
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,526 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    So that takes care of Dublin.

    How does that explain meaths regression beyond many other teams who get less money?

    For all the talk of Dublin killing Leinaterz there is still a chance for all of the province to progress via the qualifiers and it's an age since Meath did anything in that. Hope they can make the super 8s this year. A competitive Meath is good for football
    Meath this year made it back to Div 1 in who knows how long. Being destroyed by Dublin doesn't mean you've regressed. We've definitely improved. Hopefully they do themselves justice the next day out.


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    #90
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    RoyalCelt wrote: »
    Meath this year made it back to Div 1 in who knows how long. Being destroyed by Dublin doesn't mean you've regressed. We've definitely improved. Hopefully they do themselves justice the next day out.

    100% agree, and that is a great thing. Division 1 football will bring them on massively.

    The problem is your "who knows how long".


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    #91
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,804 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    rpurfield wrote: »
    It won't change it now because the system is in place, but you can't deny having the money in the last ten or twelve years to put coaches into schools and run all sorts of courses and all that comes with it has created the system. If you can't see that you are ignoring what's plain as day. However I'd agree suddenly cutting the funding now won't pull Dublin back into the pack. You've a highly sucessful team that sponsors want to be associated with and a lot of people look up to, that creates it's own momentum. The move now needs to be for some of the money to go elsewhere to try and drag some other teams up to the level that Leinster becomes a competition again.

    I think that would be illegal, if say Ryanair gave the Dubs 200,000 euros to advertise on the back of the jersey for two years. For the GAA to insist that Dublin hand over 35% or whatever to be redistributed without seeking their agreement to do so, just demanding it is both unethical AND possibly illegal. Certainly unethical. Same if it was Cork or any other county.

    If the GAA want to support lesser financially comfortable counties with grants, ok, I get. But to be taxing and penalizing a county extra to accomplish this is wrong. Just by virtue of their success.

    If EVERY county had to commit something...say...

    10% of their revenue back or top earning 15%.... that ‘could’ be agreeable if the money was redistributed in an open, transparent, fair and even manner. Seen to be giving a leg up to the most needy based on a purposeful request for the likes of...

    Stadium upgrade...
    Team bus...
    New clubhouse and office ETC.


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